CM8 vs PMC 23 vs ProAc D18s

[boshk]

I'm moving my CM1 to my other room, old KEF not cutting it.

Listening space for floorstanders, 2-3ft from rear, 7ft apart, sitting 7ft away.

Amp=RA-1570

Music genre: Mainly Jazz, Pop, easy listening, no metal, no classical, no Indie.

any thoughts on these 3?

Are the CM8s considered to be in the same league/bracket as the PMC and Pro's?

demo-wise, 3 different dealers.

I can demo the CM8 with my amp at official B&W

Already demo PMC23 with some high-end AVM amp and cd...........it was amazing, eye opener

ProAc D18 yet to be demo but I think it will be with Naim system

thank you

 

[plastic penguin]

I'm moving my CM1 to my other room, old KEF not cutting it.

Listening space for floorstanders, 2-3ft from rear, 7ft apart, sitting 7ft away.

Amp=RA-1570

Music genre: Mainly Jazz, Pop, easy listening, no metal, no classical, no Indie.

any thoughts on these 3?

Are the CM8s considered to be in the same league/bracket as the PMC and Pro's?

demo-wise, 3 different dealers.

I can demo the CM8 with my amp at official B&W

Already demo PMC23 with some high-end AVM amp and cd...........it was amazing, eye opener

ProAc D18 yet to be demo but I think it will be with Naim system

thank you

Yup the 23s are fabulous speakers, however, Rotel and B&W have always worked as a great combo. And the CM8s are the cheapest and they'll have common traits with your CM1s.

 

[jaxwired]

I'm a fan of the b&w cm line but in my opinion they are outclassed by your two other choices. The pmc 20.23 and the proac d18 are both superb and best in class. I'd go with the d18 if you like just a bit more warmth than the 23 offers. Go with the 23 if transparency is your top goal.

 

[boshk]

I'm moving my CM1 to my other room, old KEF not cutting it.

Listening space for floorstanders, 2-3ft from rear, 7ft apart, sitting 7ft away.

Amp=RA-1570

Music genre: Mainly Jazz, Pop, easy listening, no metal, no classical, no Indie.

any thoughts on these 3?

Are the CM8s considered to be in the same league/bracket as the PMC and Pro's?

demo-wise, 3 different dealers.

I can demo the CM8 with my amp at official B&W

Already demo PMC23 with some high-end AVM amp and cd...........it was amazing, eye opener

ProAc D18 yet to be demo but I think it will be with Naim system

thank you

Yup the 23s are fabulous speakers, however, Rotel and B&W have always worked as a great combo. And the CM8s are the cheapest and they'll have common traits with your CM1s.

The CM8 are expensive here in Hong Kong. At the moment, CM8 are only available in demo for around 1250pounds (new 1800!!), new D18 at 1900 and new PMC 23s at 2100

Cant wait until tomorrow to test them.

You have a pair of PMC too right P.Penguin?

 

[sa2013]

ProAc D18 yet to be demo but I think it will be with Naim system

I was in a similar position not so long ago except I didn't listen B&W floorstanders, demoed PM1 and it was very nice but I was after more bass.

Curious how you will go with ProAc's and Naim, one of the amps I'm considering for my D18 is Supernait 2 but haven't heard it just yet.

 

[spockfish]

Keep in mind that the PMC will want you to move up the ladder wrt amplification. These speakers are very efficient, but also thrive with a little bit of juice. Many people warned me over here that if I would go for the 23's I also wanted to get a new amp, which is true 🙂

So be warned. I guess the same goes for the ProAc's.

Regards,

 

[ISAC69]

I don't think that the Rotel RA-1570 is enough for the PMC and the Proac. The RB-1582 power amp + RC-1570 or RC-1580 preamp

should be fine .

 

[boshk]

Rotel RA1570 should be comfortable with the PMC or ProAc right?
Class AB with 120W.

 

[Tomas]

Hi, I have bought RA-1570 and looking for similar speaker range. Have you considered Sonus Faber 2.5 ? I have listend to them and they are amazing but with combo with Marantz(Rotel wasn't available). Has anybody heard them with Rotel? What about CM 9 with RA-1570?

 

[boshk]

Hi, I have bought RA-1570 and looking for similar speaker range. Have you considered Sonus Faber 2.5 ? I have listend to them and they are amazing but with combo with Marantz(Rotel wasn't available). Has anybody heard them with Rotel? What about CM 9 with RA-1570?

Well, I took the plunge and went with the CM8. The ProAc D18 was very very nice, I was so close to paying but the amps they were using were AVM and Naim XS.

I managed to test the CM8 with RA-1570 and no problem driving them. The bass isnt as tight and some say it runs away a little but to my untrained ears, they felt fine. I think in terms of quality/price/level, I should have gone with the D18 but they were much more expensive and for the difference, I am already thinking about possible CDP or phono preamp for the future.

I sat through about 5 songs with the CM8s and Rotel and thought to myself, can I sit and listen for another 3 hrs..........'yes' so I brought them, not very technical I know.

If you can stretch your budget AND you can somehow test the ProAc D18 with your amp, give it a go, they are wonderful.

As to the CM9, I never got to test them but dealer did say RA-1570 are able to drive them well and more importantly they will be fine in a room around 14x13', CM10 no way.

 

[Tomas]

Congratulations!!! I hope I'll make a right choice as well ... Thank you for your reply.

Tomas

 

[Vladimir]

@boshk

You seem too ambitious and enjoying this hobby all too much to just settle for borring Rotel + B&W combo. I vote PMC 23 + Naim Supernait 2 as next direction. *dirol*

 

[boshk]

@boshk

You seem too ambitious and enjoying this hobby all too much to just settle for borring Rotel + B&W combo. I vote PMC 23 + Naim Supernait 2 as next direction.  *dirol*

Welcome back Vladimir.
Too bad, if you had offered your advise like 2 days ago, I might have been tempted or at least went to test the D18s again and PMCs ......but it's done. Haha
Thanks though

 

[Vladimir]

Well. You lost on pretentiousness and audiophile woo points with the borring 1966 est. B&W. Who cares if the FST midrange driver is jawdroppingly beautiful and studio mastering worthy performer... Everyone knows B&W, it's not exotic, it's complimentary to a man's ego as much as an LG. Enough already, chuck it in the bin! *shok*

Or just enjoy its song. *unknw*

I had a similar buying experience last year. I toured the hi-fi shops for something special and I bought the bland, uninteresting, petitte B&W CM1. All B&Ws in the showroom just sounded right and I could listen to them all day. They are the girl you like to take for lunch to meet your mom, the one that you find hot when she wears a summer dress as much as or even more than a mini skirt. A vacation from the nutty, needy, bipolar girlfriends of the past. How long will this summer dress girl last? Who knows, try to make the best of it.

Congrats and welcome to the B&W family. *drinks*

 

[spockfish]

@boshk

You seem too ambitious and enjoying this hobby all too much to just settle for borring Rotel + B&W combo. I vote PMC 23 + Naim Supernait 2 as next direction. *dirol*

That's *my* new system 🙂

 

[Freddy58]

It's a funny thing. I tried the CM8's, and I thought they sounded dull (no offense). This just proves that our hearing and preferences have a great part to play. Ultimate sound quality? No such thing...

 

[boshk]

It's a funny thing. I tried the CM8's, and I thought they sounded dull (no offense). This just proves that our hearing and preferences have a great part to play. Ultimate sound quality? No such thing...

no offense taken mate. Maybe I'll feel the same sometime in the future. They definitely didn't sound as 'lively' as the D18s with the Naim XS and PMC 23 with AVM Evolution, both were brilliant, but so was the price of the AVM.

 

[Vladimir]

It's a funny thing. I tried the CM8's, and I thought they sounded dull (no offense). This just proves that our hearing and preferences have a great part to play. Ultimate sound quality? No such thing...

They are indeed dull. -3dB dip in the upper midrange (presence region) where our hearing is most sensitive. This is intentional voicing to have them sound good with nasty recordings and without hearing fatigue at louder listening levels. KEF and ProAc are more linear and thus sound more exciting, but they will bring on the pain if played loud and with nasty recs.

This is matter of voicing, it's no voodoo. One just needs to look at the FR graphs.

 

[Freddy58]

It's a funny thing. I tried the CM8's, and I thought they sounded dull (no offense). This just proves that our hearing and preferences have a great part to play. Ultimate sound quality? No such thing...

They are indeed dull. -3dB dip in the upper midrange (presence region) where our hearing is most sensitive. This is intentional voicing to have them sound good with nasty recordings and without hearing fatigue at louder listening levels. KEF and ProAc are more linear and thus sound more exciting, but they will bring on the pain if played loud and with nasty recs.

This is matter of voicing, it's no voodoo. One just needs to look at the FR graphs.

Not only dull in the upper range, they also failed my test . A cd that has great dynamic range. Just my opinion, and therefore suspect*biggrin*

 

[boshk]

It's a funny thing. I tried the CM8's, and I thought they sounded dull (no offense). This just proves that our hearing and preferences have a great part to play. Ultimate sound quality? No such thing...

They are indeed dull. -3dB dip in the upper midrange (presence region) where our hearing is most sensitive. This is intentional voicing to have them sound good with nasty recordings and without hearing fatigue at louder listening levels. KEF and ProAc are more linear and thus sound more exciting, but they will bring on the pain if played loud and with nasty recs.

This is matter of voicing, it's no voodoo. One just needs to look at the FR graphs.

Not only dull in the upper range, they also failed my test . A cd that has great dynamic range. Just my opinion, and therefore suspect*biggrin*

Just got them today and I personally love them. The soundstage is so much better. Bass is nice, and I don't find them dull in upper range but as I said before, I have nothing to compare it with.

Maybe if I had brought the D18 and Supernait too like Vlad said, I would notice.

At the moment, I'm contempt, just waiting for the good news from Michell.

 

[Happy_Listner]

I think that both the Proac's and the PMC's are better speakers than the B&W's. However, since you already have a Rotel RA 1570 I think that the CM8's would work out well. As you probably already know Rotel and B&W are a very good pairing. They are often on demo together for a reason. I am confident that Proac is not the best match with your Rotel. I can't say for sure about the PMC's.

You need to ask youself what it is about the CM1's that you didn't like? If it was just the lack of deep bass and dynamics that was missing then the CM8's are going to give you what you're missing. But if your looking for a different sort of sound then you might want to try a different brand. Kef, Dynaudio, Martin Logan Motion ect...

I beleive Proac and PMC deserve more than what the Rotel can offer, but they are speakers you could grow your system around.

 

[Freddy58]

It's a funny thing. I tried the CM8's, and I thought they sounded dull (no offense). This just proves that our hearing and preferences have a great part to play. Ultimate sound quality? No such thing...

They are indeed dull. -3dB dip in the upper midrange (presence region) where our hearing is most sensitive. This is intentional voicing to have them sound good with nasty recordings and without hearing fatigue at louder listening levels. KEF and ProAc are more linear and thus sound more exciting, but they will bring on the pain if played loud and with nasty recs.

This is matter of voicing, it's no voodoo. One just needs to look at the FR graphs.

Not only dull in the upper range, they also failed my test . A cd that has great dynamic range. Just my opinion, and therefore suspect*biggrin*

Just got them today and I personally love them. The soundstage is so much better. Bass is nice, and I don't find them dull in upper range but as I said before, I have nothing to compare it with.

Maybe if I had brought the D18 and Supernait too like Vlad said, I would notice.

At the moment, I'm contempt, just waiting for the good news from Michell.

Hi there. I'm glad you're happy with the CM8's

I too have an RA1570 hooked up to some KEF R300's recently bought, fabulous bass, imo. I tried several speakers, but these were best suited to my taste.

 

[Garethjones]

Hi guys. This is my first post and I would really like to thank everyone on here for the excellent comments and advice on what turned out to be my first 'proper' hi fi purchase.

I am a novice in terms audio equipment but am a professional musician so I was looking to buy some descent equipment to play my music collection.

I firstly bought my cm8 s1s recently for £900 and after much research and reading of forums went for the rotel rc1570 amp and rc1570 CD player.

I have to say I'm totally impressed and addicted to playing music back at any given opportunity. I listen to a range of music, mainly classical through to dire straits to jazz and have found the system fantastic at performing all tracks. The clarity and timbre of sounds is very accurate to my ears I and it's especially noticeable in classical music where many different instruments are playing, and these can be identified in very thick musical textures. The guy in the hifi shop was especially impressed with the detail picked up by the CD player and the ability of the amp speakers to immerse and surround the listener (me and him) with the sound, as if being there at the live performance. For the thrill, I've had various James Bond Daniel Arnold scores on including casino royal with the volume up turned and performance for me is stunning- the sound is big yet very detailed and concise. Some posters have mentioned the lower/bass end and at first I found a slight lack in clarity. However, since placing pillows behind the speakers, duvet covers on the side walls and curtains at the back of the listening position with more pillows at the bass of the curtains, the sound has improved so much to the extent where I'm experiencing much more detailed tenor and bass range. I'm hearing timbre of the cellos and hearing the growl of the double basses in some track although playing right at the bottom end. I'm not a 'pounding' deep level bass fan so perhaps this system isn't for those but I'm so impressed with it. It's the best thing I've ever bought and including my instruments bar my clarinet which is probably level.

All in all, from the point of view of a non-expert in audio, but from a dedicated and informed listener I would say that you can't go wrong with this system. For me it provides accuracy, clarity and a thrill on every track I've played from shostakovich to simply red. On a side note, if you want to give your system a true test for accuracy and power, try playing shostakovich symphony no7, (learnard berstein Chicago symphony orchestra recording) last movement 2 minutes from the end. It is the largest most fiery ending to any piece/song I've ever heard.

I would also like to thank once again all you guys for the fantastic opinions and advice you've expressed on this and other forums and I hope this post may be of some help to someone in my position 1 month ago. All the best for 2015

 

[NSA_watch_my_toilet]

I'm a PMC Fact8 user, but had tired out the D18, D30 of ProAc and some B&W CM's and 804D and other 802D.

Sorry to say this, but everyone of those speaker brands have different sounds. So one not be better as the other. It's like to say that chocolate ice cream is better than Strawberry. It's your personal taste that will be the last judge in this story.

PMC are generally right sounding speakers. Clean bass going in perfect medium going in accurate highs. With a lot of analyse without becoming overanalytical. Those are clean and fast speakers that you can make a master mix on it.

B&W have a form of mushy bass behavior that I dislike. Like to play a chord on a LesPaul guitar. It's fat, not sounding unnatural, but it's artificially warmed. Medium are controlled and going to highs that can be flat and cramped to accurate and slighly polite (depending the level of the model). Although, the mushiness in the bass region varies from a model to the other. The entry models tend to have a lot, the 802D don't have this specificity.

ProAc's D18 speaker is a piece of sh_t and I will not be able to review it in public without becoming an heavy diarhea. I tested it for a magazine, and the test was never published because it was incredibly bad. The reproduction is uncomplete, highs are atrocious and only the medium is light and free. Bass don't really exist under 70hz. Atrocious thing. If you go for a ProAc, go for the D30. It was decent hifi speaker for somebody searching a "musical" type speaker. The D18 was a joke.

Ah yes, and ProAc is probably paying google to make bad reviews of their product disappear. I love those kind of marketing.

 

[HDNumpty]

I just want to say, this thread is hilarious...! But very interesting to a CM1 owner looking to upgrade to CM8 or similar small floorstanders, cheers guys