Cables (get on my nerve!)

[Anonymous]

[quote user="bluetorric"]
I was reading a Naim publication and it gives various Hi Fi tips one of them being " remove and re-insert leads half a dozen times every few months as the contacts can oxidise and become less effective "

Now it occurs to me that someone trying a new cable will be achieving much the same effect as cleaning the terminals and instantly hearing an improved difference and thinking ah ha the new cable is much better than the old one.

Just a thought.

[/quote]

I have 3 different interconnects, and between my friends we have another 5, not to mention the ones we regularly borrow from guys we are friendly with who work in hi fi shops. Occasionally, if one of us or even someone we know is upgrading something, we get together with the cables and a few beers and listen to them against each other.Yes, its sad, but it is only occasionally. So that rules out the idea that we hear a difference just cos its something new. We can all tell the difference between them quite easily. I could write a review on every single one of them off the top of my head if i wanted to.Even my mates girlfriend can hear the difference and i think she would rather be dead that show an interest in hi fi. I recently changed my van den hul integration for a chord chorus.Before i did i compared them as i was looking for more bass slam, if not necessarily more depth, and a friend who has a chorus said it would do that.The chorus delivered exactly that and when i let my mates hear it ( one of them has a vdh integration) they all agreed that it had done exactly what the vdh could not do ( great cable that it is). Now this was purely about tweaking to my personal taste before anyone says i got up grade itis.The vdh could easily be stunning on another system with harder hitting speakers than my old Mon audio S1's that i had at the time.

 

[Anonymous]

cable can change the sound of your Hi-Fi ... emphasis on 'change' ... this doesn't mean improve no matter how much money you pay ... please sit back and enjoy your music

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Anton90125"]

Thaiman, on another post you stated that the difference between low/medium
end equipment and high end equipment was black and white. What if someone said
that was also a placebo effect despite what you heard? What if any blind test
you carried out were completely ignored out of hand?
[/quote]

Trust me mate, no need for blind test on this matter I post less and less because I listen more and more. Happy new year mate.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="bobbys"]Whilst were on cables can anyone help with this http://whathifi.com/forums/t/5420.aspx your help would be much appreciated thanks[/quote]

You can buy them cheap on Ebay and they will all sound the same so look for solid construction.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Fraziel"]I have 3 different interconnects, and between my friends we have another 5, not to mention the ones we regularly borrow from guys we are friendly with who work in hi fi shops. Occasionally, if one of us or even someone we know is upgrading something, we get together with the cables and a few beers and listen to them against each other.Yes, its sad, but it is only occasionally. So that rules out the idea that we hear a difference just cos its something new. We can all tell the difference between them quite easily.[/quote]

Well done.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Now there's a thing - Nigel Proctor and Keith McAlpine just posted from exactly the same IP address. Same person, or just two very cosy objectivists cuddled up and sniffing switch-cleaner together?

 

[Thaiman]

We did worked that out already Mr.E

Did you have a nice Christmas? or Mrs. E doesn't celebrate X-mas.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]

f you haven't actually measured any how can you possibly be of the opinion that cables with "identical RCL characteristics" sound different?[/quote]

???? Didn't you read the rest of the post ???

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
Now there's a thing - Nigel Proctor and Keith McAlpine just posted from exactly the same IP address. Same person, or just two very cosy objectivists cuddled up and sniffing switch-cleaner together?

[/quote]

Could it be our friend "OldPhrt" ? I thought his name was Kev ??

Kev, Keith or Nigel, He's a lucky man that he can't hear differences that the rest of us can. True Hi Fidelity is not relevant to him because he cant hear it. He must be very content with his sound. IMO. While the rest of us strive for a better sound. I hope one day I can be that content.

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Thaiman"]We did worked that out already Mr.E[/quote]

Yes, me too - but nice to have confirmation!

[quote user="Thaiman"]Did you have a nice Christmas? or Mrs. E doesn't celebrate X-mas.[/quote]

Very good thanks - very quiet apart from being on here for at least a couple of hours every day. And yes she does - and New Year as well!

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Thaiman"]Trust me mate, no need for blind test on this matter I post less and less because I listen more and more. Happy new year mate.[/quote]

Exactly my point! Some cables comparisons exhibit the same differences (magnitude wise).

And a very happy new year to you too!

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="Thaiman"]Trust me mate, no need for blind test on this matter I post less and less because I listen more and more. Happy new year mate.[/quote]

Exactly my point! Some cables comparisons exhibit the same differences (magnitude wise).

And a very happy new year to you too!
[/quote]

Without trying to argue the matter with you or Kieth/Nigel. I think it is a whole world of different! My Gamut can produced 400 (real) watts compare to Cyrus (?? watts) result in the amp have a total control of my speakers and produced dynamic swing that the smaller amp could only dream of.

Cables are different - How many different materials you can made them with? How many designs? well according to one high flying Dutch company you can have nearly 200 types of cables from his manufacture! How possible would that be, honestly!?

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Thaiman"]Without trying to argue the matter with you [/quote]

I wouldn't dream of that

[quote user="Thaiman"]How many different materials you can made them with? How many designs? well according to one high flying Dutch company you can have nearly 200 types of cables from his manufacture! How possible would that be, honestly!?[/quote]

If I knew that I would be a very rich man! The thing to remember is (assuming we are discussing copper). You will need to look a load of factors such as -method of manufacture, purity, casting/extruding, crystal size/ shape, impurities on the crystal boundaries (this is just dealing the material aspect ). These parameters need to be taken into account. Before anyone can discount these parameters (and others not mentioned) it needs to be proven conclusively that they do not have an effect.

Getting back to my origin point. I am trying to illustrate the level of difference that others and I have heard. What ever the difference between the actual mechanisms used in different amplifiers the bottom line is you can hear a massive difference that makes the use of a DBT totally unnecessary. I am saying that I have heard similar differences in some of the cables (Give away inter connect and my home made coax) I have used. I would have to be so grossly effected by that placebo effect that I would have a problem with reality as a whole on daily basis. I have been tested with a single blind test and passed with ease (I didn't even know I was being tested!).

 

[Anonymous]

Blimey.
Can't I leave you chaps alone for even a couple of days?????
Hope you all had a very enjoyable Christmas break.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]Nigel Proctor and Keith McAlpine just posted from exactly the same IP address.[/quote]

OK, Nigel and I are lovers. There, I've said it. He came round for a sordid romp and as neither of us smoke we visited your addictive website instead.

BTW subjectively there is a huge difference in our IP addresses.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"][quote user="Andrew Everard"]Nigel Proctor and Keith McAlpine just posted from exactly the same IP address.[/quote]

OK, Nigel and I are lovers. There, I've said it. He came round for a sordid romp and as neither of us smoke we visited your addictive website instead.

BTW subjectively there is a huge difference in our IP addresses.
[/quote]

Actually, subjectively your IP addresses are the same.
Objectively it would require more investigation to ensure that no spoofing or proxying is going on.
You really don't understand any of this stuff at all do you?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Keith McAlpine"]OK, Nigel and I are lovers.[/quote]
Err, I think we'd all assumed you to be the same person.
Oh yeah, sorry, I get it.

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Anton90125"]I have been tested with a single blind test and passed with ease (I didn't even
know I was being tested!). [/quote]

I totally believe you Ant and from a few friends who are using the Isoda all siad that they are one of the best cables out there for a reasonable price range.

but Would you agree with me that many interconnects sound too similar to keep swap and change? and it's not part of proper upgrading (in my book anyway). and as for speaker cables I bet you never guess what am I using between my GamuT and Amphion right now!

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Thaiman"]
but Would you agree with me that many interconnects sound too similar to keep swap and change? and it's not part of proper upgrading (in my book anyway). and as for speaker cables I bet you never guess what am I using between my GamuT and Amphion right now![/quote]

I can't guess. What are you using?

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Anton90125"][quote user="Thaiman"]
but Would you agree with me that many interconnects sound too similar to keep swap and change? and it's not part of proper upgrading (in my book anyway). and as for speaker cables I bet you never guess what am I using between my GamuT and Amphion right now![/quote]

I can't guess. What are you using?
[/quote]

£40 worth of Gotham speakers cables! What do they sound like?.....not quite as good as my old £800 run but certainly run them close enough to warrant sell my old Cardas on.

 

[Anton90125]

Didn't you have some Virtual Dynamics cables?

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Anton90125"]
Didn't you have some Virtual Dynamics cables?
[/quote]

Yes, I still using the VD interconnects (nite series) but I sold the speakers cables as they were too stiff and on the (very) large side. I have about 8 set of speakers cables in my draw! Some of the good pair were surprisingly cheap! and some expensive one like LFD and MIT I could sell them tomorrow without miss them at all. in fact I will sell most of them on in the new year.

 

[Anonymous]

Gotta love the irony that in the very thread that someone whinges about people who offer noobs advice on cables, someone actually pops up to ask for advice on cables. And at the same time, more and more threads pop up asking for advice on the very same thing. If people want to know about cables, surely folk should tell them, and in any case, it's rather presumptuous to assume it's too much of a burden for them to deal with. I mean, it's just cables...

How bad an experience with cables must someone have had to be so vehemently against them that people can barely mention them without someone getting their knickers in a twist? (Actually, I'm probably better off not knowing...)

I'm a bit agnostic on the cable thing myself, having yet to explore it fully. But there are so many candidates for potential effects noted - the skin effect, strand interaction, the impact of insulation and design of the shielding, etc. - that surely Anton (who noted some additional possibilities, like grain boundaries/crystal structure) has a point: it seems a bit incautious to dismiss it all out of hand without any consideration.

To be honest, unless people think perfection has been achieved, isn't it reasonable to try and improve things? Which means exploration of things hitherto overlooked and open to question, something frequently more interesting than exploring the obvious and indisputable. So I for one would welcome more information on the mechanisms by which cabling might affect the sound

Btw, the placebo effect keeps getting trotted out as a kind of catch-all means of dismissing all claims. But the placebo effect only appears to work - in the medical world - on about a third of the subjects, there generally needs to be an expectation of an improvement, and quite often they have to include some psychoactive substance so the subject actually feels an effect and thereby thinks they have been given the real drug, not the placebo. Furthermore, there is such an effect as the nocebo, which maybe some of the cynics are suffering from.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="helisphon"]it seems a bit incautious to dismiss it all out of hand without any consideration[/quote]
Beautifully phrased if I may say.

 

[Anton90125]

Nicely put helisphon.