cables and the foo fighters brigade ...

[JMacMan]

I'll probably get some stick for the following but hey ...

So you've saved for a couple of years and have been eating nothing but canned beans. Finally that new shiney, lovely system sits comfortably in your living room.

Are you going to buy the cheap looking copper speaker cable (and interconnects) you can buy everywhere and which, to some, is as good as a thousand pounds worth of wire or will you spend a little more for the admittedly often obscure benefits of 'better' materials?

The way I look at it is that after spending £'s on a system which pleases my ears as well as eyes (we shop and probably listen with both) I dont want £2/meter cabling hanging out the back of my system, regardless of measurements. I will know 'its there' and the question of whether a cable which is featured in full spread pages of magazines really would improve anything would probably nag me for a long time.

Apart from looks (and lets face it, most of us have 'some' exposed cables even with the most elaborate channeling/hiding as I can attest with my cyrus and matching hark rack with careful cabling) I want something that has had a little bit of thought going into it, be that dielectrics, conductors, colour or even the companies accountants view regarding profits. Sorry but Maplins 'best' just will not do (I haven't looked at their web site, some bright spark will probably point out that they now stock Nordost or similar ...).

Bottom line, nothing wrong imho with spending a little bit on cables even if the benefits are more perceived than proven. After all, the have been quite a few drug tests where placebo effects have given thought to the power of mind ... .

My advise; Don't go overboard but spend commensurate with the rest of your system and peace of mind will probably set in more easily.

regards

One of the benefits of buying a one make system, and preferably active, is that you don't generally have those kind of audiphile concerns come knocking at the door of ones subconsiousness.

I understand completely where you're coming from, but having been there and done that, with respect it's not a place where I'd like to go again.

Too much concern about the system 'tuning', and not enough about the music - at least that was my experience with my last Naim separates system.

Having made the jump to a fully active B&O AV system, for me personally, my only regret is that I didn't do it several decades ago, instead of wasting time, as a music lover first and an person interested in quality HiFi kit second, faffing about with mix and match seperates.

Having said that, I respect that mixing and matching is an aspect of the hobby that many enjoy - and why not - one can do a lot worse things in life as regards hobbies.

For me though, I'm more interested in the end result which is the music, than letting the kit get in the way, by having to think about it all the time.

I just want a system that gets out of the way and lets me enjoy the music - which I finally have - and I could not be happier to be honest!

As I say, I appreciate where you're coming from though and respect it, but suggest you may find an active system from the increasing choice becoming available, to be something to pursue in the future perhaps if you're looking for a set and forget HIFi/AV entertainment solution.

Best Regards

JMac

 

[Vladimir]

@JMac

If an audiophilic orthopedic surgeon happened to be fortuitously persuaded to purchase a pair of BeoLab 5’s, he would be automatically spared every bit of idiotic propaganda about triode amplifiers, silver cables, biwiring, burn-in, spiked feet, etc., etc. Isn’t that wonderful? Bravo, B&O! Peter Aczel

 

[TrevC]

Can anyone define 'foo'? I see it used a lot on Hifi forums but have never seen it defined.

Fairly Obviously Overpriced?

Not sure "Fairly" is right!

Chris

Flagrantly?

 

[hifikrazy]

I've never come across a high end system with $50k source, $50k amps and $50k speakers that's cabled with 5 buck cables. The A.R.S.E. brigade will say it's because the system owner has more money than sense, but calling a successful millionaire clueless and gullible lacks credibility when the person calling the names is usually the one with a budget system. Reeks more of sour grapes than anything.

 

[TrevC]

I've never come across a high end system with $50k source, $50k amps and $50k speakers that's cabled with 5 buck cables. The A.R.S.E. brigade will say it's because the system owner has more money than sense, but calling a successful millionaire clueless and gullible lacks credibility when the person calling the names is usually the one with a budget system. Reeks more of sour grapes than anything.

I reckon the low rent system in the blind test on the other thread will sound every bit as good as yours.

 

[the record spot]

...or exercising well informed choice.

 

[CnoEvil]

I've never come across a high end system with $50k source, $50k amps and $50k speakers that's cabled with 5 buck cables. The A.R.S.E. brigade will say it's because the system owner has more money than sense, but calling a successful millionaire clueless and gullible lacks credibility when the person calling the names is usually the one with a budget system. Reeks more of sour grapes than anything.

You are never going to win this argument, as the cable believers don't need convincing and the sceptics can't be convinced.

The tactic of the hard core sceptic is to push your buttons until you lose your cool; and if (when) you do (by insulting them), they then delight in making you look foolish. It's a simple tactic that works more often than not and is why cable threads often turn so nasty.

Personally I find it a fruitless exercise and try not to get drawn in.....but it isn't always easy, as some are very adept at button pushing.

 

[steve_1979]

I've never come across a high end system with $50k source, $50k amps and $50k speakers that's cabled with 5 buck cables. The A.R.S.E. brigade will say it's because the system owner has more money than sense, but calling a successful millionaire clueless and gullible lacks credibility when the person calling the names is usually the one with a budget system. Reeks more of sour grapes than anything.

...because we all know that rich people are far more intelligent than us paupers. :roll:

A direct correlation between a persons IQ and their bank balence? I don't think so. I've know plenty of clever people who are skint and rich people who are stupid.

 

[Vladimir]

On the behalf of the A.R.S.E. brigade, P.I.S.H. subdivision, I would like to state that we don't have problem people buying bling or even believing it improves performance. However, we will continue vociferously to purge any atempt at recommending bling as a performance feature in the public life.

Thank you.

 

[CnoEvil]

Is there any evidence which shows there is a direct correlation between a persons ID and their bank balence?

You can't open a bank account without ID, so there is a very direct correlation.

IQ, now that's a different kettle of fish......but i'm in the "terminally thick" brigade, so I don't have much of a clue.

Edit: Hah, not quick enough!

 

[Deliriumbassist]

And so it all comes around again...

Anyways, my take on it. My cabling consists of Chord Crimson analogue interconnects, a Chord Anthem, Chord Epic speaker cable, Chord Signature links, a Wireworld USB and a Chord Powerchord. Through having been in the industry, I paid very little for this cabling. But you know what? I would py full price for it all.

I'm not going to pretend to know how electricity works- fact is I don't. That doesn't particularly matter to me. Are cables measurably different? Maybe. I don't know, and again, I'm not going to pretend to know. What I do know is that I have a better experience with some cables over others. Is it placebo effect? Maybe. Psychoacoustics? Possibly. Actual differences? Potentially. I even said as much when I was in retail. I was open with every customer about this viewpoint, and always said that it doesn't matter if you can or can't hear a difference between cables- go with what gives you the better experience. If a placebo provides me with a better experience when I sit in front of my speakers, so be it. As far as I'm concerned, I'm winning. I'd say it's no different to watching your favourite band live, in the fact that even though you may be there and thinking that it sounds awesome, live sound is often a shambles, but your overall experience is elevating everything.

Point is, if I'm enjoying something more, and it comes after a change in cable, then the cable has done something, whether imagined or real. But the end product is what matters, and the end, for me at least, justifies the means. And I'm not going to be spoken down to by some (rhetorical) self righteous anonymous gent somewhere else in the world telling me I'm wrong, or stupid, or gulliable, or that I should spend my money on more music to enjoy.

Maybe that person should spend less time on the internet berating people about cables, and spend that time enjoying music instead.

 

[the record spot]

I've never come across a high end system with $50k source, $50k amps and $50k speakers that's cabled with 5 buck cables. The A.R.S.E. brigade will say it's because the system owner has more money than sense, but calling a successful millionaire clueless and gullible lacks credibility when the person calling the names is usually the one with a budget system. Reeks more of sour grapes than anything.

You are never going to win this argument, as the cable believers don't need convincing and the sceptics can't be convinced.

The tactic of the hard core sceptic is to push your buttons until you lose your cool; and if (when) you do (by insulting them), they then delight in making you look foolish. It's a simple tactic that works more often than not and is why cable threads often turn so nasty.

Personally I find it a fruitless exercise and try not to get drawn in.....but it isn't always easy, as some are very adept at button pushing.

... And the tactic of the cable believer is to deride the other person's system, hearing, and generally patronise the hell out of them. Indeed, no win scenario.

 

[steve_1979]

Edit: Hah, not quick enough!

Still. At least you got there before I noticed the word 'balance' was spelt incorrectly.

 

[steve_1979]

The tactic of the hard core sceptic is to push your buttons until you lose your cool; and if (when) you do (by insulting them), they then delight in making you look foolish. It's a simple tactic that works more often than not and is why cable threads often turn so nasty.

Excuses excuses.

steve_1979 pushing buttons for the foo brigade. oke:

Personally I find it a fruitless exercise and try not to get drawn in.....but it isn't always easy

Me too...

Doh! I've just done it again. :doh: And I've been doing so well recently too.

 

[Vladimir]

@Delirium

Would you buy the nice looking audiophile cables if the manufacturer didn't promise improvments in sound quality?

Patek Philippe swiss watches sell for thousands of pounds and yet there is no declaration by the manufacturer anywhere they keep better time than stock Timex watches, let alone being its strongest selling point.

 

[Deliriumbassist]

@Delirium

Would you buy the nice looking audiophile cables if the manufacturer didn't promise improvments in sound quality?

I'd try things myself and make my own decision. I've been in Chord's demonstration room and honestly preferred what I experienced from a Crimson cable over a Chameleon. I've never been one to look at price and think of it as something that denotes quality- I've driven enough BMWs to know they aren't that great! Similarly I don't take claims at face value.

EDIT: funny you bring up watches- I used to fix Pateks and the like when I lived in Chester

 

[CnoEvil]

... And the tactic of the cable believer is to deride the other person's system, hearing, and generally patronise the hell out of them. Indeed, no win scenario.

That often (though not always), comes out of the sheer frustration of having their buttons well and truly pressed.

Generally, all they want to do is share their findings and have friendly debate; but find themselves fending off a robust onslaught. It's not hard to be polite and respectful, though you would think otherwise after reading almost any cable thread.....where some start off being antagonistic, and some are driven to it.

 

[Vladimir]

That is cool job you had Delirium. What kind of watch do you wear these days?

Anyway, my point is, let bling be bling, sell it as one. Cables are more like female handbags, shoes, jewelry, men's watches and pens. Speakers are more like cars, boats and airplanes, meaning there is real tangible engineering and performance to compare against.

Just say these are beautiful handmade cables designed by William Dexter, thick as a baby arm, with techflex from real Alpaca sheep wool and connectors from silicon carbide and remolded nazi gold.

 

[hifikrazy]

I've never come across a high end system with $50k source, $50k amps and $50k speakers that's cabled with 5 buck cables. The A.R.S.E. brigade will say it's because the system owner has more money than sense, but calling a successful millionaire clueless and gullible lacks credibility when the person calling the names is usually the one with a budget system. Reeks more of sour grapes than anything.

I reckon the low rent system in the blind test on the other thread will sound every bit as good as yours.

I guess that's what low rent system owners like you would like to think. Please yourself since that's all you can do. :wave:

 

[RobinKidderminster]

I dont do 'designer'. But my birthday pressies - designer socks errrm sucks. Just sayin'

 

[TrevC]

@Delirium

Would you buy the nice looking audiophile cables if the manufacturer didn't promise improvments in sound quality?

Patek Philippe swiss watches sell for thousands of pounds and yet there is no declaration by the manufacturer anywhere they keep better time than stock Timex watches, let alone being its strongest selling point.

The watches are bought because of the way they look, and there is no dishonesty involved in the selling of them. Many cable companies rely on dishonest superficially technical sounding claims about their product improving performance, even in the case of mains leads where such improvements are not possible. The way they look is also irrelevant when you consider that most are not even seen once installed.

 

[Deliriumbassist]

That is cool job you had Delirium. What kind of watch do you wear these days?

Anyway, my point is, let bling be bling, sell it as one. Cables are more like female handbags, shoes, jewelry, men's watches and pens. Speakers are more like cars, boats and airplanes, meaning there is real tangible engineering and performance to compare against.

Just say these are beautiful handmade cables designed by William Dexter, thick as a baby arm, with techflex from real Alpaca sheep wool and connectors from silicon carbide and remolded nazi gold.

My dress watch is an old Omega officer's watch that belonged to my Dad's Grandfather, who was an officer in the Dutch army. I don't actually know too much about it, except that it's from the 1940s.

 

[TrevC]

I've never come across a high end system with $50k source, $50k amps and $50k speakers that's cabled with 5 buck cables. The A.R.S.E. brigade will say it's because the system owner has more money than sense, but calling a successful millionaire clueless and gullible lacks credibility when the person calling the names is usually the one with a budget system. Reeks more of sour grapes than anything.

I reckon the low rent system in the blind test on the other thread will sound every bit as good as yours.

I guess that's what low rent system owners like you would like to think. Please yourself since that's all you can do. :wave:

Yours is cheaper than the one it sounded identical to.

 

[CnoEvil]

On the behalf of the A.R.S.E. brigade, P.I.S.H. subdivision...

Let me be the first to congratulate you on your promotion.....I hope it comes with greater remuneration and good health insurance.

 

[John Duncan]

direct correlation between a persons IQ and their bank balence? I don't think so.

My bank balance is almost always less than my IQ, I've found.