Cable questions

[steve_1979]

 

[strms]

You misunderstand. It isn't possible, so there's no point in trying to convince anyone. You were mistaken.

[/quote]

 

[TrevC]

I'm educating you while guiding the novice.

I really don't need to be educated by you

Ah well, every school has difficult pupils.

 

[Vladimir]

I like this one to match the UFC atmosphere on this thread..

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Yes, but there is a problem with your analogy Vladimir. This is not an electronic engineers forum it is a Hifi forum.?

Which means here laws of physics do no apply?

No, of course not. It does however mean that we are all on neutral ground so a mutual respect is required.?

EEs create Hi-Fi and we buy it. Who is the expert here? How is this neutral ground? You (an architect) and I (a graphic designer) are the ignorants here. Of course, ignorants in a factual, not pejorative sense.

Sorry but this makes very little sense Vlad.

We are end users all the 'electronic engineerings' is complete.

We listen, we share our experience and give opinion.

If A sounds better than B in our opinion sharing that with others is not an issue.

Like I said in a previous thread apply 'science' or 'electrical engineerings' when applicable.

For the record 'engineerings' is deliberate. ....

 

[spiny norman]

Ah well, every school has difficult pupils.

This isn't a school. We don't need no education.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Sorry but this makes very little sense Vlad.

We are end users all the 'electronic engineerings' is complete.

We listen, we share our experience and give opinion.

If A sounds better than B in our opinion sharing that with others is not an issue.

Like I said in a previous thread apply 'science' or 'electrical engineerings' when applicable.

For the record 'engineerings' is deliberate. ....

How do you determine if the farting noise exibited by speaker woofers is due to amplifier clipping or speaker being overpowered, just by hearing and not applying any objective knowledge in electronics?

Which farting noise?

 

[Gazzip]

I would be interested in getting a definition of EE in this context. Are we talking circuit designer or ring main installer? Huge difference.

Good point but IMO either Electric and Electronics Engineers are experts on hi-fi appliances compared to a Dentist who bought an amp to play his Schubert during work breaks.

I am not sure I entirely agree with that. I would not trust an electronic circuit engineer to install a consumer unit or a ring main anymore than I would let an electrician near my Hifi.

 

[Vladimir]

Oh well...

Back to you Trev.

 

[Vladimir]

Sorry but this makes very little sense Vlad.

We are end users all the 'electronic engineerings' is complete.

We listen, we share our experience and give opinion.

If A sounds better than B in our opinion sharing that with others is not an issue.

Like I said in a previous thread apply 'science' or 'electrical engineerings' when applicable.

For the record 'engineerings' is deliberate. ....

How do you determine if the farting noise exibited by speaker woofers is due to amplifier clipping or speaker being overpowered? Just by hearing and not applying any objective knowledge in electronics?

 

[slice]

I've read many of these cable debates and in general side with those who say "good enough is good enough" when it comes top wire quality, however I don't have the audio equipment experience or electronic science background that most contributors have, or an expensive system. I do know enough about statistical maths/hypothesis testing to feel that if expensive products are better, it is to all intents and purposes provable statistically.

However, my point is this. I've just flicked onto an upmarket cable website, and put the rca cables in order of price.

The most expensive is a 3m cable costing £11000. There are others not far behind. How can you take any cable company seriously that dare try and justify such prices for a short piece of wire, for any of their products. Yes, I don't have to buy them, and obviously won't as it is the price of a decent car.

 

[Gazzip]

I've read many of these cable debates and in general side with those who say "good enough is good enough" when it comes top wire quality, however I don't have the audio equipment experience or electronic science background that most contributors have, or an expensive system. I do know enough about statistical maths/hypothesis testing to feel that if expensive products are better, it is to all intents and purposes provable statistically.

However, my point is this. I've just flicked onto an upmarket cable website, and put the rca cables in order of price.

The most expensive is a 3m cable costing £11000. There are others not far behind. How can you take any cable company seriously that dare try and justify such prices for a short piece of wire, for any of their products. Yes, I don't have to buy them, and obviously won't as it is the price of a decent car.

I agree but take a look inside an audio research reference 5se pre-amp (£12K) and ask yourself the same question. There are about £1000 tops of parts in there. Why single out cable manufacturers? In both instances you are paying a bit for R&D and the rest for company director's Ferrari collection. That's "high end" hifi for you unfortunately.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

I've read many of these cable debates and in general side with those who say "good enough is good enough" when it comes top wire quality, however I don't have the audio equipment experience or electronic science background that most contributors have, or an expensive system. I do know enough about statistical maths/hypothesis testing to feel that if expensive products are better, it is to all intents and purposes provable statistically.

However, my point is this. I've just flicked onto an upmarket cable website, and put the rca cables in order of price.

The most expensive is a 3m cable costing £11000. There are others not far behind. How can you take any cable company seriously that dare try and justify such prices for a short piece of wire, for any of their products. Yes, I don't have to buy them, and obviously won't as it is the price of a decent car.

We'll 50quid is the most I've paid. My best sounding cable cost 25quid....

But I would not go beyond that.

 

[slice]

I've read many of these cable debates and in general side with those who say "good enough is good enough" when it comes top wire quality, however I don't have the audio equipment experience or electronic science background that most contributors have, or an expensive system. I do know enough about statistical maths/hypothesis testing to feel that if expensive products are better, it is to all intents and purposes provable statistically.

However, my point is this. I've just flicked onto an upmarket cable website, and put the rca cables in order of price.

The most expensive is a 3m cable costing £11000. There are others not far behind. How can you take any cable company seriously that dare try and justify such prices for a short piece of wire, for any of their products. Yes, I don't have to buy them, and obviously won't as it is the price of a decent car.

We'll 50quid is the most I've paid. My best sounding cable cost 25quid....

But I would not go beyond that.

fair enough, although £25 is more than I would pay, at this price level maybe people are not arguing over very much. However, if the£25 cable was made by a company who charges up to £11000 for other cables I probably wouldn't buy it on principle!

 

[Thompsonuxb]

QED make some expensive cables I'm sure.

But it's none of my concern. I'll buy to my pocket.

 

[Anderson]

What is your current/former profession?

Actually I am an Architect and company director. Point taken.

Imagine Trevor (retired EE) coming to a forum about architectural design and claiming aesthetics and subjective visual appeal is how everything should be designed, no structural integrity calculations are needed. You would feel frustrated having such a conversation about form vs function with a non-architect, I'm sure. Or just have a laugh at best.

It's a rough analogy but you understand what I'm trying to say. A lot of architects, lawyers, dentists, teachers and chemist come to these forums and tell engineers like Trev, Jota, Paul, Steve etc. they are annoying pr**cs who troll and ruin everyone's hobby by waving specs, facts, diagrams etc. Actually when you consider how many non-EEs come here and participate, you will see the objectivist engineers are a loud minority. What do we do to loud minorities? We insult and segregate them to shut them up.

Think from the POV of your own professional expertise and treat others how you wish them to treat you back if circumstances were vice versa.

TrevC is no electrical engineer more like a trolley collector at the local superstore.......

Beats licking the windows though eh?

ITS PROVOCATIVE

 

[Anderson]

Had I come on here 5 years ago and been treated in the same way as TrevC treats some newcomers I may not have stuck in the hobby. I mean that truthfully. Nothing is more demoralising as a novice than being put down by an expert and TrevC sees every new cable thread as a chance to do that.

Exactly: and that, Anderson (or whoever you're pretending to be this week), is the point I have been making.

Ah Norman of course I'll go down the big scary bar with you to talk to your scary mates all gruff like. I'll help you explain the cable debate, hold your hand even. Whatever helps.

 

[slice]

QED make some expensive cables I'm sure.

But it's none of my concern. I'll buy to my pocket.

You'll be pleased to know the most expensive qed is £270, so its not near the top in ascending order of hatred!

 

[Anderson]

QED make some expensive cables I'm sure.

But it's none of my concern. I'll buy to my pocket.

You'll be pleased to know the most expensive qed is £270, so its not near the top in ascending order of hatred!

Its peasantry really then. I'm sure it sounds like there's pillow over his speakers using el cheapo QED.

/s in case Thompson doesn't understand :-]

 

[radiorog]

Cables aren't HiFi, cables are dumb bits of metal that connect HiFi. People who haven't done their reading or have bought into the myths come here to ask for advice on an open forum. Nice forum goers like myself or whoever you perceive as preaching will point out that spending money on cables is silly because cables dont have a sound.

So in summary, if you keep recommending nonsense I will continue to point out that you're a fool.

Absolute nonsense. I've had interconnects that I could tell again and again blindfolded which was which, it was so obvious. I would demonstrate for you had I not thrown one of them in the bin. Interconnects DO sound different. Fact.

 

[abacus]

Cables aren't HiFi, cables are dumb bits of metal that connect HiFi. People who haven't done their reading or have bought into the myths come here to ask for advice on an open forum. Nice forum goers like myself or whoever you perceive as preaching will point out that spending money on cables is silly because cables dont have a sound.

So in summary, if you keep recommending nonsense I will continue to point out that you're a fool.

Absolute nonsense. I've had interconnects that I could tell again and again blindfolded which was which, it was so obvious. I would demonstrate for you had I not thrown one of them in the bin. Interconnects DO sound different. Fact.

One person saying they can hear a difference (Real or imaginary) is not fact, you need to post your test proceedings so that others can perform an identical test to confirm your findings. (I am assuming it was a double blind test with all levels matched)

Bill

 

[radiorog]

As far as I can see it, cables do sound different, by varying margins. A certain two cables may be indestguishable from each other when another two may be correctly told apart from each other whilst blindfolded. To me, the people who say that cables don't make a difference are like people who say all fruit taste the same because they have sampled oranges and tangerines. I used to think they were just trolls, I genuinely thought this for a long time, but now I think the fruit analogy fits. I would advise trying some different fruit, you might like it ;-)

Sorry, no disrespect to you guys (cables sound the same club) and I'm not trolling, but isn't it also about time some of us bought some of these £1 copper cables that people have mentioned, and report back our findings?

 

[radiorog]

As far as I can see/hear, I have had in my possession 5 or 6 different interconnects in my time and I could tell differences in all of them I think. There were two cables that if I still had both sets,i would happily blindfold myself and video the results for you. I would argue there must be something failing in the testing methods if a result of no change is constantly found... Maybe I should look into this double blind test phenomenon thingy and critique it properly. Just as when some people say the auditory memory is only a second or so, I'm pretty sure I could prove to you how the methodology for finding this result is flawed, and in fact there are ways of having a memory of something auditory that can last maybe a lifetime. Who here can hear their parents voices if you close your eyes? When was the last time you heard them for real... .2 seconds ago? Am I missing something or are some claims being banded around this forum ludicrous, and given way too much credence?

 

[Thompsonuxb]

QED make some expensive cables I'm sure.

But it's none of my concern. I'll buy to my pocket.

You'll be pleased to know the most expensive qed is £270, so its not near the top in ascending order of hatred!

Its peasantry really then. I'm sure it sounds like there's pillow over his speakers using el cheapo QED.

/s in case Thompson doesn't understand :-]

You are a totally irrelevant person......

 

[Vladimir]

100 posts!