Cable questions

[RobinKidderminster]

Does a wire-less speaker need thinner wire or shorter wire?

I try hard not to read cable threads now, still less post in them but why dont posters search first for previous posts or do some basic research? Monotonous is the kindest word I could use.

 

[Glacialpath]

Though I don't agree with the way drummerman started this thread (clearly I missed something over the weekend)

I do agree with the sentiment or it.

I know all the arguments for and against, whether cables make a difference and you all know which side I'm on but the way some of you guys just come in an mock straight off isn't exactly welcoming and gives the impression you don't want other people on this forum.

Of course a forum is for open discussion and most of you are so fed up with "Cable" threads that you choose not to answer the question in a way that the OP might think "Ok that's a fair point" instead I expect they think "wow who are these people?"

Don't forget some new users clearly think they are getting answers from the WH guys if they have never used a forum before.

I think what drummerman might be trying to say is at least answer with "I just use the cables that come with the kit as I herd no difference between them and the branded cables the dealer tried to sell me" at least give them a chance to ask more questions as to why you gave that answer.

Or depending on what kind of cable they ask about.

"I find a regular 79 strand coper cable (or what ever it is) is perfect for speaker cables (with or without a temination) and just normal interconnects you can get from maplin will do exactly the same job as the big brand cables.

Then if the OP ask why is your queue to pass on all your knowledge and scientific explanation of why it doesn't matter what you use.

Then us believers should also follow a similar tact as we can be just as bad for mouthing off about you guys instead of saying what we use and recommend. OK who am I to police what you guys say. I'm just throwing some examples in and suggesting we could all be a bit more tactful or just don't bother answering in the first place.

What Hi-FI should maybe add a forum for cables alone. As they are used in most aspects of home entertainment kit not just Hi-Fi. It could be duplicated in each section of the forums. It should have an opening post of the argument of for and against.

Then at least new people might be directed straight to it and not kick off pointless arguments about cables unsespectingly and will be able to post more subjectively regarding cables if they choose to go with the notion they make a difference.

Just my opinion that's all.

GP

 

[Gazzip]

+1 for a section of the forum dedicated to cables. I also agree with GP's sentiments in respect of first time posters and the negative effect that aggressive and polemic cable arguments in the main Hifi section may be having on new "membership".

 

[TrevC]

I wouldn't dream of jumping in to the vinyl forum where record heads are raving about how analogue sound is better than digital and tell them that they are full of it, even though science clearly proves they are completely full of it. Why therefore do the anti-cable brigade choose to do the same on this forum when it comes to cable advice threads? I just don't get it.

If someone says that spending hundreds on cable is essential for the best sound possible then that is a false assertion with no supporting evidence. That's the difference.

My post is more about the etiquette (or lack of it) shown on the cable threads in comparison to the vinyl threads. Just let people believe what they want to believe and discuss it freely without that discussion being jumped all over.

Posted by Gazzip earlier.

"I see you are currently trolling on two threads simultaneously. Careful you don't strain the brain cell old son."

It isn't a religious forum. Hifi reproduction is a science.

Anybody reading this thread was probably reading the other two threads that you were trolling on over the weekend, and will therefore understand the context of my comments. Comments which were in fact directed at you for dumping all over two cable threads with your anti-cable nonsense which is exactly my point on this thread regarding etiquette. Thanks for making my point for me.

No trolling from me, only factual comments. Feel free to critique them, but do try to avoid the personal attacks, there's a good chap. I don't think anyone should take advice from someone that buys ridiculously overpriced nonsense like Tellurium cables.

 

[Vladimir]

At Head-Fi.org they have separate cable and objectivist forums. It is forbiden to discuss science and double-blind tests in the subjectivist cable forum. If you do, you get banned.

I personally have no problem with such segregation. Darwinism FTW.

 

[Deliriumbassist]

Though I don't agree with the way drummerman started this thread (clearly I missed something over the weekend)

I do agree with the sentiment or it.

I know all the arguments for and against, whether cables make a difference and you all know which side I'm on but the way some of you guys just come in an mock straight off isn't exactly welcoming and gives the impression you don't want other people on this forum.

Of course a forum is for open discussion and most of you are so fed up with "Cable" threads that you choose not to answer the question in a way that the OP might think "Ok that's a fair point" instead I expect they think "wow who are these people?"

Don't forget some new users clearly think they are getting answers from the WH guys if they have never used a forum before.

I think what drummerman might be trying to say is at least answer with "I just use the cables that come with the kit as I herd no difference between them and the branded cables the dealer tried to sell me" at least give them a chance to ask more questions as to why you gave that answer.

Or depending on what kind of cable they ask about.

"I find a regular 79 strand coper cable (or what ever it is) is perfect for speaker cables (with or without a temination) and just normal interconnects you can get from maplin will do exactly the same job as the big brand cables.

Then if the OP ask why is your queue to pass on all your knowledge and scientific explanation of why it doesn't matter what you use.

Then us believers should also follow a similar tact as we can be just as bad for mouthing off about you guys instead of saying what we use and recommend. OK who am I to police what you guys say. I'm just throwing some examples in and suggesting we could all be a bit more tactful or just don't bother answering in the first place.

What Hi-FI should maybe add a forum for cables alone. As they are used in most aspects of home entertainment kit not just Hi-Fi. It could be duplicated in each section of the forums. It should have an opening post of the argument of for and against.

Then at least new people might be directed straight to it and not kick off pointless arguments about cables unsespectingly and will be able to post more subjectively regarding cables if they choose to go with the notion they make a difference.

Just my opinion that's all.

GP

Great sentiment. It's all the childishness on both sides which has led to me not posting on here as much as I would like to. So much hostility and not enough discussion. I don't think I've ever seen any scientific reasons as to why cables can't make a difference, just the good ol' 'burden of proof isn't mine' and 'it's a placebo effect' cop-outs. Those aren't reasons, they're statements, just like 'cables make a difference' is a statement.

 

[Native_bon]

At Head-Fi.org they have separate cable and objectivist forums. It is forbiden to discuss science and double-blind tests in the subjectivist cable forum. If you do, you get banned.

I personally have no problem with such segregation. Darwinism FTW.

Your kidding. You cnt be seriuos. May be I missed the joke.

 

[TrevC]

+1 for a section of the forum dedicated to cables. I also agree with GP's sentiments in respect of first time posters and the negative effect that aggressive and polemic cable arguments in the main Hifi section may be having on new "membership".

I would have thought that most visitors would be encouraged by the knowledge that excellent results can be obtained on a fairly low budget, with the exception of speakers, anyway. Most people can't afford the likes of Bryston or are not daft enough to buy the likes of Tellurium.

 

[Anderson]

Cables aren't HiFi, cables are dumb bits of metal that connect HiFi. People who haven't done their reading or have bought into the myths come here to ask for advice on an open forum. Nice forum goers like myself or whoever you perceive as preaching will point out that spending money on cables is silly because cables dont have a sound.

So in summary, if you keep recommending nonsense I will continue to point out that you're a fool.

 

[Excitable Boy]

Cables aren't HiFi, cables are dumb bits of metal that connect HiFi. People who haven't done their reading or have bought into the myths come here to ask for advice on an open forum. Nice forum goers like myself or whoever you perceive as preaching will point out that spending money on cables is silly because cables dont have a sound.

So in summary, if you keep recommending nonsense I will continue to point out that you're a fool.

Thank goodness you do it in such a pleasant way.............

 

[andyjm]

. I don't think I've ever seen any scientific reasons as to why cables can't make a difference, just the good ol' 'burden of proof isn't mine' and 'it's a placebo effect' cop-outs. Those aren't reasons, they're statements, just like 'cables make a difference' is a statement.

I, and a number of others have posted at length the technical explanations why all adequately specificed speaker cables will sound the same.

If you have missed the explanation here, then google is your friend. There are many technical articles that explain the maths behind cable performance.

 

[Gazzip]

Look at cables like very subtle tone controls.

Tone control is also how I approach cable selection.

My system, to my ears, has been suffering from a slight bloating to the mid-range. Adding the Tellurium speaker cable in to the mix has got rid of it so I am pleased as punch.

 

[Anderson]

Cables aren't HiFi, cables are dumb bits of metal that connect HiFi. People who haven't done their reading or have bought into the myths come here to ask for advice on an open forum. Nice forum goers like myself or whoever you perceive as preaching will point out that spending money on cables is silly because cables dont have a sound.

So in summary, if you keep recommending nonsense I will continue to point out that you're a fool.

Thank goodness you do it in such a pleasant way.............

Your forgetting that we've all been fooled into believing the nonsense at some point. Fight the system!

 

[strms]

There are a number of times I have wanted to ask "the forum" about advise on a number of topics in the past. I first joined the forum in 2008/2009 and rarely posted due to a number of members who would riducule those that had differing opinions/thoughts on a topic. One of those is the great cable debate/slagging off.

My first seperates stereo was an Akai one (1989). It was with this system that found that on getting rid of the supplied speaker cables and replacing them with twin core domestic electrical cable that there was a huge difference in SQ from the speakers.

More recently with my current setup I have used both QED silver anniversary and QED balanced design concept speaker cables. I initially had the former set up but found that the speakers sounded overly bright so changed to the latter which IMO removed the brightness. Since buying a CA Dac Magic Plus I have reverted back to the silver anniversary as I prefer the SQ that I now have. No cost involved as I was given both sets of cables.

Recently I bought a Lindy mains conditioner extension lead. This also made a difference, not a positive one but it did make a difference. It went by the way of a popular auction site. The reason why I bought it was because I wanted to give it a go, it was my choice.

The point that I am trying to make is that as individuals we should not be derided for saying that IMO there is an audible difference between speaker cables, interconnects and mains leads/conditioners. It is frustrating when the "knowledgable" ones point blankly say that they make no difference its all in your head when I can hear a differece.

 

[andyjm]

The point that I am trying to make is that as individuals we should not be derided for saying that IMO there is an audible difference between speaker cables, interconnects and mains leads/conditioners. It is frustrating when the "knowledgable" ones point blankly say that they make no difference its all in your head when I can hear a differece.

I don't think anyone questions that you hear a difference, the question is whether anyone else would hear a difference. By definition, hearing is 'all in your head'.

 

[Gazzip]

Most people can't afford the likes of Bryston or are not daft enough to buy the likes of Tellurium.

There you go again with astonishing generalisation and factualisation of your own suppositions.

"Most people are not daft enough to buy the likes of Tellurium?"

Where did you get that statistic from then? That sounds like the sort of thing my 5 year old might say when he is having a paddy. You make me chuckle Trevor. I just want to give you a big cuddle and tell you it will all be okay.

 

[Excitable Boy]

Cables aren't HiFi, cables are dumb bits of metal that connect HiFi. People who haven't done their reading or have bought into the myths come here to ask for advice on an open forum. Nice forum goers like myself or whoever you perceive as preaching will point out that spending money on cables is silly because cables dont have a sound.

So in summary, if you keep recommending nonsense I will continue to point out that you're a fool.

Thank goodness you do it in such a pleasant way.............

Your forgetting that we've all been fooled into believing the nonsense at some point. Fight the system!

I rest my case....I am not forgetting anything( and it should have been "you're" not "your" BTW)

 

[spiny norman]

It is frustrating when the "knowledgable" ones point blankly say that they make no difference its all in your head when I can hear a differece.

Ignore them, strms: the only fun they have is hiding behind a keyboard and attacking others to inflate their own self-esteem.

If they tried going up to total strangers in a pub, telling them they have no Idea what they're talking about and generally behaving as boorishly as some do on here, they'd probably find themselves on the end of an (alleged) Clarksoning.

 

[Vladimir]

At Head-Fi.org they have separate cable and objectivist forums. It is forbiden to discuss science and double-blind tests in the subjectivist cable forum. If you do, you get banned.

I personally have no problem with such segregation. Darwinism FTW.

Your kidding. You cnt be seriuos. May be I missed the joke.

Not joking. Join Head-Fi and see for yourself. The head-fi apartheid was a solution to please battered subjectivists, ease moderators work and calm advertisers. Before the barbed wires there were ongoing day and night cable wars that resulted in constant insults, bans, departures of members, mods and advertisers.

If you join Hydrogen Audio forum, there it is forbiden to place any subjective claims about sound quallity, otherwise you get banned.

I personally think cable debates should be cable debates. If someone wants cables recommended, give your recommendation, not your agenda, and carry on. If you think the OP should get QED Silvers, let him know. If you think any 4mm OFC speaker wire will do, just say so. If we keep this simple system, there is no need for forum apartheid.

 

[TrevC]

Look at cables like very subtle tone controls.

Tone control is also how I approach cable selection.

My system, to my ears, has been suffering from a slight bloating to the mid-range. Adding the Tellurium speaker cable in to the mix has got rid of it so I am pleased as punch.

It's a miracle! Magic wire!

 

[TrevC]

It is frustrating when the "knowledgable" ones point blankly say that they make no difference its all in your head when I can hear a differece.

Ignore them, strms: the only fun they have is hiding behind a keyboard and attacking others to inflate their own self-esteem.

If they tried going up to total strangers in a pub, telling them they have no Idea what they're talking about and generally behaving as boorishly as some do on here, they'd probably find themselves on the end of an (alleged) Clarksoning.

Like Thompson?

 

[TrevC]

Recently I bought a Lindy mains conditioner extension lead. This also made a difference, not a positive one but it did make a difference.

Which proves you are imagining it. A mains extension can't affect sound quality either positively or negatively.

 

[TrevC]

Most people can't afford the likes of Bryston or are not daft enough to buy the likes of Tellurium.

There you go again with astonishing generalisation and factualisation of your own suppositions.

"Most people are not daft enough to buy the likes of Tellurium?"

Where did you get that statistic from then? That sounds like the sort of thing my 5 year old might say when he is having a paddy. You make me chuckle Trevor. I just want to give you a big cuddle and tell you it will all be okay.

It's an obvious fact. Ask your 5 year old whether he or she would like to know how electronics works, then after they've learned all about it they can educate you.

 

[Gazzip]

Most people can't afford the likes of Bryston or are not daft enough to buy the likes of Tellurium.

There you go again with astonishing generalisation and factualisation of your own suppositions.

"Most people are not daft enough to buy the likes of Tellurium?"

Where did you get that statistic from then? That sounds like the sort of thing my 5 year old might say when he is having a paddy. You make me chuckle Trevor. I just want to give you a big cuddle and tell you it will all be okay.

It's an obvious fact. Ask your 5 year old whether he or she would like to know how electronics works, then after they've learned all about it they can educate you.

Clearly not a fact. Clearly your supposition. Clearly a Trevor fact.

 

[Vladimir]

What is your current/former profession?