Cable questions

[Native_bon]

At Head-Fi.org they have separate cable and objectivist forums. It is forbiden to discuss science and double-blind tests in the subjectivist cable forum. If you do, you get banned.

I personally have no problem with such segregation. Darwinism FTW.

Your kidding. You cnt be seriuos. May be I missed the joke.

Not joking. Join Head-Fi and see for yourself. The head-fi apartheid was a solution to please battered subjectivists, ease moderators work and calm advertisers. Before the barbed wires there were ongoing day and night cable wars that resulted in constant insults, bans, departures of members, mods and advertisers.

If you join Hydrogen Audio forum, there it is forbiden to place any subjective claims about sound quallity, otherwise you get banned.

I personally think cable debates should be cable debates. If someone wants cables recommended, give your recommendation, not your agenda, and carry on. If you think the OP should get QED Silvers, let him know. If you think any 4mm OFC speaker wire will do, just say so. If we keep this simple system, there is no need for forum apartheid.

Oh well, that says it all. Should that even be happening in the 21 century?

 

[TrevC]

Most people can't afford the likes of Bryston or are not daft enough to buy the likes of Tellurium.

There you go again with astonishing generalisation and factualisation of your own suppositions.

"Most people are not daft enough to buy the likes of Tellurium?"

Where did you get that statistic from then? That sounds like the sort of thing my 5 year old might say when he is having a paddy. You make me chuckle Trevor. I just want to give you a big cuddle and tell you it will all be okay.

It's an obvious fact. Ask your 5 year old whether he or she would like to know how electronics works, then after they've learned all about it they can educate you.

Clearly not a fact. Clearly your supposition. Clearly a Trevor fact.

Most people wouldn't spend £800 on something only worth £20.

 

[Anderson]

Cables aren't HiFi, cables are dumb bits of metal that connect HiFi. People who haven't done their reading or have bought into the myths come here to ask for advice on an open forum. Nice forum goers like myself or whoever you perceive as preaching will point out that spending money on cables is silly because cables dont have a sound.

So in summary, if you keep recommending nonsense I will continue to point out that you're a fool.

Thank goodness you do it in such a pleasant way.............

Your forgetting that we've all been fooled into believing the nonsense at some point. Fight the system!

I rest my case....I am not forgetting anything( and it should have been "you're" not "your" BTW)

You should have used 1 full stop, a space before the first open bracket, no space immediately after the first open bracket. Kthxbye

 

[Vladimir]

Oh well, that says it all. Should that even be happening in the 21 century?

As you can see, people themselves create segregation based on opposing ideas. An authority merely enforces the arrangement.

 

[Gazzip]

What is your current/former profession?

Current - Cable manufacturer

Former - Wizard

 

[Gazzip]

What is your current/former profession?

Actually I am an Architect and company director. Point taken.

 

[Vladimir]

What is your current/former profession?

Actually I am an Architect and company director. Point taken.

Imagine Trevor (retired EE) coming to a forum about architectural design and claiming aesthetics and subjective visual appeal is how everything should be designed, no structural integrity calculations are needed. You would feel frustrated having such a conversation about form vs function with a non-architect, I'm sure. Or just have a laugh at best.

It's a rough analogy but you understand what I'm trying to say. A lot of architects, lawyers, dentists, teachers and chemist come to these forums and tell engineers like Trev, Jota, Paul, Steve etc. they are annoying pr**cs who troll and ruin everyone's hobby by waving specs, facts, diagrams etc. Actually when you consider how many non-EEs come here and participate, you will see the objectivist engineers are a loud minority. What do we do to loud minorities? We insult and segregate them to shut them up.

Think from the POV of your own professional expertise and treat others how you wish them to treat you back if circumstances were vice versa.

 

[Vladimir]

 

[Gazzip]

Yes, but there is a problem with your analogy Vladimir. This is not an electronic engineers forum it is a Hifi forum.

 

[spiny norman]

Like Thompson?

Both sides are equally guilty, but some elevate it to a boorish artform, which I am sure amuses them no end.

Which proves you are imagining it.

Ask your 5 year old whether he or she would like to know how electronics works, then after they've learned all about it they can educate you.

Most people wouldn't spend £800 on something only worth £20.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

What is your current/former profession?

Actually I am an Architect and company director. Point taken.

Imagine Trevor (retired EE) coming to a forum about architectural design and claiming aesthetics and subjective visual appeal is how everything should be designed, no structural integrity calculations are needed. You would feel frustrated having such a conversation about form vs function with a non-architect, I'm sure. Or just have a laugh at best.

It's a rough analogy but you understand what I'm trying to say. A lot of architects, lawyers, dentists, teachers and chemist come to these forums and tell engineers like Trev, Jota, Paul, Steve etc. they are annoying pr**cs who troll and ruin everyone's hobby by waving specs, facts, diagrams etc. Actually when you consider how many non-EEs come here and participate, you will see the objectivist engineers are a loud minority. What do we do to loud minorities? We insult and segregate them to shut them up.

Think from the POV of your own professional expertise and treat others how you wish them to treat you back if circumstances were vice versa.

TrevC is no electrical engineer more like a trolley collector at the local superstore.......

 

[strms]

Well now here's the interesting thing, IMHO it made a negative difference in the overall SQ with the equipment that I am using, maybe you should pop over for a listen.

edit this was not a reply to #62 but to TrevC

 

[Vladimir]

Yes, but there is a problem with your analogy Vladimir. This is not an electronic engineers forum it is a Hifi forum.

Which means here laws of physics do no apply?

EDIT: Just to add the obvious, Hi-Fi = electronics made by EEs.

 

[Vladimir]

TrevC is no electrical engineer more like a trolley collector at the local superstore.......

Your forum nemesis is an ASDA trolley herder? Maybe you should aspire for more challenging opponents then. *biggrin*

 

[spiny norman]

they are annoying pr**cs

I've never been that annoyed by a ProAc. Stupefied by a Spendor from time to time, and even harassed by the occasional Harbeth, but ProAcs I quite like. ;-)

 

[Gazzip]

Yes, but there is a problem with your analogy Vladimir. This is not an electronic engineers forum it is a Hifi forum.

Which means here laws of physics do no apply?

No, of course not. It does however mean that we are all on neutral ground so a mutual respect is required. I don't actually have a big issue with his views. Quite the opposite actually as I am a firm believer in each to their own. It is his (and his merry gang's) approach that has drawn out my reaction. You are wrong. Next! You are wrong. Next! You are wrong. Next! You are stupid. Next! You've been ripped off old son. Next!

This is a hobby. Most of us enter it knowing very little, and over time we develop our opinions and our knowledge further. I was very grateful for the guidance and help I recieved from people on here and other forums over the years, but I like to believe I have been able to make my own decisions through experience. Had I come on here 5 years ago and been treated in the same way as TrevC treats some newcomers I may not have stuck in the hobby. I mean that truthfully. Nothing is more demoralising as a novice than being put down by an expert and TrevC sees every new cable thread as a chance to do that.

 

[TrevC]

Well now here's the interesting thing, IMHO it made a negative difference in the overall SQ with the equipment that I am using, maybe you should pop over for a listen.

edit this was not a reply to #62 but to TrevC

You misunderstand. It isn't possible, so there's no point in trying to convince anyone. You were mistaken.

 

[TrevC]

Like Thompson?

Both sides are equally guilty, but some elevate it to a boorish artform, which I am sure amuses them no end.

Which proves you are imagining it.

Ask your 5 year old whether he or she would like to know how electronics works, then after they've learned all about it they can educate you.

Most people wouldn't spend £800 on something only worth £20.

They were all responses in kind. Are you a moderator now?

 

[spiny norman]

Had I come on here 5 years ago and been treated in the same way as TrevC treats some newcomers I may not have stuck in the hobby. I mean that truthfully. Nothing is more demoralising as a novice than being put down by an expert and TrevC sees every new cable thread as a chance to do that.

Exactly: and that, Anderson (or whoever you're pretending to be this week), is the point I have been making.

 

[TrevC]

What is your current/former profession?

Actually I am an Architect and company director. Point taken.

Imagine Trevor (retired EE) coming to a forum about architectural design and claiming aesthetics and subjective visual appeal is how everything should be designed, no structural integrity calculations are needed. You would feel frustrated having such a conversation about form vs function with a non-architect, I'm sure. Or just have a laugh at best.

It's a rough analogy but you understand what I'm trying to say. A lot of architects, lawyers, dentists, teachers and chemist come to these forums and tell engineers like Trev, Jota, Paul, Steve etc. they are annoying pr**cs who troll and ruin everyone's hobby by waving specs, facts, diagrams etc. Actually when you consider how many non-EEs come here and participate, you will see the objectivist engineers are a loud minority. What do we do to loud minorities? We insult and segregate them to shut them up.

Think from the POV of your own professional expertise and treat others how you wish them to treat you back if circumstances were vice versa.

TrevC is no electrical engineer more like a trolley collector at the local superstore.......

You are off yours.

 

[TrevC]

Had I come on here 5 years ago and been treated in the same way as TrevC treats some newcomers I may not have stuck in the hobby. I mean that truthfully. Nothing is more demoralising as a novice than being put down by an expert and TrevC sees every new cable thread as a chance to do that.

Exactly: and that, Anderson (or whoever you're pretending to be this week), is the point I have been making.

I'm educating you while guiding the novice. I have only responded in kind when first subjected to abuse.

 

[Vladimir]

Yes, but there is a problem with your analogy Vladimir. This is not an electronic engineers forum it is a Hifi forum.

Which means here laws of physics do no apply?

No, of course not. It does however mean that we are all on neutral ground so a mutual respect is required.

EEs create Hi-Fi and we buy it. Who is the expert here? How is this neutral ground? You (an architect) and I (a graphic designer) are the ignorants here. Of course, ignorants in a factual, not pejorative sense.

 

[Gazzip]

Yes, but there is a problem with your analogy Vladimir. This is not an electronic engineers forum it is a Hifi forum.

Which means here laws of physics do no apply?

No, of course not. It does however mean that we are all on neutral ground so a mutual respect is required.

EEs create Hi-Fi and we buy it. Who is the expert here? How is this neutral ground? You (an architect) and I (a graphic designer) are the ignorants here. Of course, ignorants in a factual, not pejorative sense.

I would be interested in getting a definition of EE in this context. Are we talking circuit designer or ring main installer? Huge difference.

 

[spiny norman]

I'm educating you while guiding the novice.

You don't actually believe that, do you? Oh no, of course not: you don't need to believe, because you know. Anyway, spare yourself the effort: I really don't need to be educated by you, and the only direction in which you are 'guiding the novice' is straight out the way they came in.

I'm sure you think you're on some kind of crusade, but frankly the way you choose to do it sucks big time.

 

[Vladimir]

I would be interested in getting a definition of EE in this context. Are we talking circuit designer or ring main installer? Huge difference.

Good point but IMO either Electric and Electronics Engineers are experts on hi-fi appliances compared to a Dentist who bought an amp to play his Schubert during work breaks.

In audiophile land expertise is measured in years of ownership, product variation and monetary value. No one knows or cares what are watts and amperes. It's the art of consumerism no different than clothes, watches, wines, boats, thoroughbreds etc. Who is the expert, the thoroughbred owner or the veterenarian he paid to treat the horse?