Stopped by a local RicherSounds and found out that CA has increased prices overnight on almost all products. DacMagic is up to 249 from 199.
CA prices up significantly, DacMagic at 249
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Exchange rates, I suspect...
We have been warning that such increases were all but inevitable for some time...
We have been warning that such increases were all but inevitable for some time...
matthewpiano
Well-known member
On the RS website. 740 up to £650 a piece, and 840 V2.0 up to £999.99 a piece.
Hardly surprising though and they are not the only ones.
Hardly surprising though and they are not the only ones.
Andrew Everard:
Exchange rates, I suspect...
We have been warning that such increases were all but inevitable for some time...
Suspect that some products will be losing a star then....as the sound per pound decreases.
Exchange rates, I suspect...
We have been warning that such increases were all but inevitable for some time...
Suspect that some products will be losing a star then....as the sound per pound decreases.
Depends whether everything else goes up, too. Products will be reconsidered when they are compared again in group tests or supertests, I think.
matthewpiano:On the RS website. 740 up to £650 a piece, and 840 V2.0 up to £999.99 a piece.
Hardly surprising though and they are not the only ones.
Hmm. I don't see a queue forming for the newly-priced 740s, given that these were being advertised at £300 up until a couple of days ago. £650 suggests a degree of profit margin which would stick in my throat, frankly.
Hardly surprising though and they are not the only ones.
Hmm. I don't see a queue forming for the newly-priced 740s, given that these were being advertised at £300 up until a couple of days ago. £650 suggests a degree of profit margin which would stick in my throat, frankly.
Where is CA gear manufactured then? I guess they must be passing on the increased costs of components. Even in these volatile forex markets 25pc increase in DAC magic seems a like it would expand their margin! I'll be monitoring the prices here in Singapore to see if they're also trying to squeeze more SGD/GBP as that has slid from c.3 to 2.1 in the last 6 months of so.
Cambridge CEO - I believe you post here - do you not hedge your fx exposure?ÿ
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Cambridge CEO - I believe you post here - do you not hedge your fx exposure?ÿ
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CA gear has been manufactured in China and other countries in that region for some little time now.
Tractorboy,
I can fully understand why you're thinking profit to the retailer. Andrew is 100% correct in that it's to do with exchange rates. Some manufactures will put up prices quicker than others given the amount of stock they shift and new stock coming into the country. Yamaha have also got price increases. Marantz prices will be up soon. Although a lot of equipment is built in China many of the equipments components are made in Japan.
I can fully understand why you're thinking profit to the retailer. Andrew is 100% correct in that it's to do with exchange rates. Some manufactures will put up prices quicker than others given the amount of stock they shift and new stock coming into the country. Yamaha have also got price increases. Marantz prices will be up soon. Although a lot of equipment is built in China many of the equipments components are made in Japan.
Yeah, I fully understand that a 25% price increase, although it may seem huge at first glance, may well be fully justified by recent changes in exchange rates. Annoying for the consumer, but certainly no indication of cynical profiteering; no doubt the manufacturers and retailers are also pretty unhappy. If I were them, I would be looking sales forecasts nervously. Let's face it, Hi Fi, at the end of the day, is a luxury, rather than an essential, and as people have less disposable income, I would imagine that tough times are ahead for manufacturers and retailers alike, certainly in this country.
I guess my point regarding the 740C was actually a bit off topic. I was trying to say that retailers should be careful what they discount, and by how much, as this can affect the consumer's view on not only an individual product, but the brand as a whole. If RS were able to sell off their Silver 740Cs for £300 a piece, to me that sets the benchmark at which I would now perceive the value of that piece of equipement, and also its peers, such as the matching amp. Once, I might have been willing to pay £500 for it, and considered it good value. Not any more. And certainly not the new price of £650.
I know that nothing has really changed, the equipment is the same, the level of performance and pride of ownership it might offer is the same... but that fact that it *was* available significantly cheaper, does in fact lessen its perceived value for me.
Hope that makes sense - I don't seem to be doing a very good job of explaining myself properly at the moment (cf the Naim Dac thread - hang on, that's starting to look better value already!).
I guess my point regarding the 740C was actually a bit off topic. I was trying to say that retailers should be careful what they discount, and by how much, as this can affect the consumer's view on not only an individual product, but the brand as a whole. If RS were able to sell off their Silver 740Cs for £300 a piece, to me that sets the benchmark at which I would now perceive the value of that piece of equipement, and also its peers, such as the matching amp. Once, I might have been willing to pay £500 for it, and considered it good value. Not any more. And certainly not the new price of £650.
I know that nothing has really changed, the equipment is the same, the level of performance and pride of ownership it might offer is the same... but that fact that it *was* available significantly cheaper, does in fact lessen its perceived value for me.
Hope that makes sense - I don't seem to be doing a very good job of explaining myself properly at the moment (cf the Naim Dac thread - hang on, that's starting to look better value already!).
Yes, British manufactured products look good value now, but then I always thought they did..........
tractorboy:Yeah, I fully understand that a 25% price increase, although it may seem huge at first glance, may well be fully justified by recent changes in exchange rates.
The GBP fell against the JPY in Sep/Oct 08. Im suprised that the price moves are so delayed. There have been (relatively) far smaller moves since last Nov. Strange timing.
Saying that, I do hope that all manufacturers come out of this unscathed, it would be a shame to lose one.
The GBP fell against the JPY in Sep/Oct 08. Im suprised that the price moves are so delayed. There have been (relatively) far smaller moves since last Nov. Strange timing.
Saying that, I do hope that all manufacturers come out of this unscathed, it would be a shame to lose one.
thfcwestlower:Strange timing.
Hardly - I think most manufacturers and distributors have been watching the rapidly Pestoning worldwide economy over the past six months or so with a mixture of abject horror and grim dread.
They've been trying to hold off the price-rises as long as possible, as they know what the impact will be if they put up prices in an already depressed, recessed or just plain tanked market.
What we're seeing now is that they really can't hold out any longer, however hard they try, as evidenced by some of the losses the big names are saying they'll be reporting when the financial year judders to a close at the end of next month.
Hardly - I think most manufacturers and distributors have been watching the rapidly Pestoning worldwide economy over the past six months or so with a mixture of abject horror and grim dread.
They've been trying to hold off the price-rises as long as possible, as they know what the impact will be if they put up prices in an already depressed, recessed or just plain tanked market.
What we're seeing now is that they really can't hold out any longer, however hard they try, as evidenced by some of the losses the big names are saying they'll be reporting when the financial year judders to a close at the end of next month.
It's also worth mentioning that the Pound/Yen rate is just one of the currency issues here. Components for just about every product (inc Chinese-manufactured goods and even British products) are priced in dollars, and the pound only started to really suffer against the dollar late last year.
Secondly, many of the major Japanese companies have their European bases in Germany, with prices across the EU therefore budgeted/planned in Euros - and we all know how the pound is faring in that relationship right now...
Secondly, many of the major Japanese companies have their European bases in Germany, with prices across the EU therefore budgeted/planned in Euros - and we all know how the pound is faring in that relationship right now...
The dollar is being predicted by many many economists to collapse again in the next year or so, so the question is will the pound continue sliding to because if it doesn't, then prices will have to be slashed to represent any heavy falls in the dollar.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
tractorboy:
I guess my point regarding the 740C was actually a bit off topic. I was trying to say that retailers should be careful what they discount, and by how much, as this can affect the consumer's view on not only an individual product, but the brand as a whole. If RS were able to sell off their Silver 740Cs for £300 a piece, to me that sets the benchmark at which I would now perceive the value of that piece of equipement, and also its peers, such as the matching amp. Once, I might have been willing to pay £500 for it, and considered it good value. Not any more. And certainly not the new price of £650.
I know that nothing has really changed, the equipment is the same, the level of performance and pride of ownership it might offer is the same... but that fact that it *was* available significantly cheaper, does in fact lessen its perceived value for me.
Hope that makes sense - I don't seem to be doing a very good job of explaining myself properly at the moment (cf the Naim Dac thread - hang on, that's starting to look better value already!).
Makes complete sense to me. We had a similar situation with the KDL-32V4000 television. Currys and Richers both did stupid, loss making deals on them to drive footfall and getting anyone to pay normal, margin making price on one after that was just an up-hill struggle.
I must admit, I've had 740A/740C and whilst they are very capable I can't imagine paying £650 for each. Neither can I imagine paying £900 for a Denon PMA1500AE, despite the fact that I completely understand the reasons for the price rises.
I was talking to a dealer (who shall remain nameless for obvious reasons) who said that some brands' price rises were making them question whether it was worth stocking them because people just won't part with the extra money for some brands/products.
I guess my point regarding the 740C was actually a bit off topic. I was trying to say that retailers should be careful what they discount, and by how much, as this can affect the consumer's view on not only an individual product, but the brand as a whole. If RS were able to sell off their Silver 740Cs for £300 a piece, to me that sets the benchmark at which I would now perceive the value of that piece of equipement, and also its peers, such as the matching amp. Once, I might have been willing to pay £500 for it, and considered it good value. Not any more. And certainly not the new price of £650.
I know that nothing has really changed, the equipment is the same, the level of performance and pride of ownership it might offer is the same... but that fact that it *was* available significantly cheaper, does in fact lessen its perceived value for me.
Hope that makes sense - I don't seem to be doing a very good job of explaining myself properly at the moment (cf the Naim Dac thread - hang on, that's starting to look better value already!).
Makes complete sense to me. We had a similar situation with the KDL-32V4000 television. Currys and Richers both did stupid, loss making deals on them to drive footfall and getting anyone to pay normal, margin making price on one after that was just an up-hill struggle.
I must admit, I've had 740A/740C and whilst they are very capable I can't imagine paying £650 for each. Neither can I imagine paying £900 for a Denon PMA1500AE, despite the fact that I completely understand the reasons for the price rises.
I was talking to a dealer (who shall remain nameless for obvious reasons) who said that some brands' price rises were making them question whether it was worth stocking them because people just won't part with the extra money for some brands/products.
It would of been the 740 in Silver you saw its not a price jump from £300 its just that they do not produce them in Silver anymore which is why it was cheaper to clear.
tractorboy:matthewpiano:On the RS website. 740 up to £650 a piece, and 840 V2.0 up to £999.99 a piece.
Hardly surprising though and they are not the only ones.
Hmm. I don't see a queue forming for the newly-priced 740s, given that these were being advertised at £300 up until a couple of days ago. £650 suggests a degree of profit margin which would stick in my throat, frankly.
tractorboy:matthewpiano:On the RS website. 740 up to £650 a piece, and 840 V2.0 up to £999.99 a piece.
Hardly surprising though and they are not the only ones.
Hmm. I don't see a queue forming for the newly-priced 740s, given that these were being advertised at £300 up until a couple of days ago. £650 suggests a degree of profit margin which would stick in my throat, frankly.
NickD2544:
It would of been the 740 in Silver you saw its not a price jump from £300 its just that they do not produce them in Silver anymore which is why it was cheaper to clear
Yes, I know. See above my slightly rambling post about the dangers of discounting.
hi fi newbie:
Plus it was ex dem, there were only a handful of them
These were advertised as brand new and boxed. Unless you work at RS and can tell us differently?
It would of been the 740 in Silver you saw its not a price jump from £300 its just that they do not produce them in Silver anymore which is why it was cheaper to clear
Yes, I know. See above my slightly rambling post about the dangers of discounting.
hi fi newbie:
Plus it was ex dem, there were only a handful of them
These were advertised as brand new and boxed. Unless you work at RS and can tell us differently?
tractorboy:NickD2544:
It would of been the 740 in Silver you saw its not a price jump from £300 its just that they do not produce them in Silver anymore which is why it was cheaper to clear
Yes, I know. See above my slightly rambling post about the dangers of discounting.
hi fi newbie:
Plus it was ex dem, there were only a handful of them
These were advertised as brand new and boxed. Unless you work at RS and can tell us differently?
A member of staff at richer sounds birmingham told me they were ex dem and that only a few were left, nearest store from his that had any in stock was cardiff.
It would of been the 740 in Silver you saw its not a price jump from £300 its just that they do not produce them in Silver anymore which is why it was cheaper to clear
Yes, I know. See above my slightly rambling post about the dangers of discounting.
hi fi newbie:
Plus it was ex dem, there were only a handful of them
These were advertised as brand new and boxed. Unless you work at RS and can tell us differently?
A member of staff at richer sounds birmingham told me they were ex dem and that only a few were left, nearest store from his that had any in stock was cardiff.
Hi everyone, yes, a sad sign of the times I am afraid and as manufacturers and importers we are definitely all in the same boat. I am aware of significant rises (ranging from 20% to 40% (yes some as high as that!)) from Arcam, Denon, Marantz, NAD, Onkyo, Sony, Samsung and Yamaha to name but a few, we all have no choice unless we want to make a loss on every box we sell.
And even "UK" manufacturers must be needing to raise prices as almost all now buy their populated PCBs, aluminium front panels and other components in from the Far East (in USD) if not whole finished products like us (they don't shout about it but many "UK" manufacturers are now doing this widely now and under UK law it's not compulsory to mark the product with the country of origin as long as you don't mislead by "suggesting" it by writing a UK address for example (although many flout those rules anyway)).
To spell out the exchange rate hit that the UK has taken, back in August (and for a long time prior to that) we were buying USD at 1.95 to the £, i.e. if we bought something for USD1000 it cost us £512.80 (100/1.95). Today's rate is 1.44 (and it has gone as low as has gone as low as 1.35 recently) which means that same USD1000 item now costs us a whopping £694.40 (100/1.45) - that's an increase of over 35%!!! So to thfcwestlower's comment "Even in these volatile forex markets 25pc increase in DAC magic seems a like it would expand their margin!" all I can reply is "in my dreams!!!!" On top of that the Chinese Renminbi currecy has strengthened against the USD so that has increased effective buying prices too and even though some might raise commodities falling recently the "street" price that our factories buy at is still far higher than it was most of last year. On top of the exchange rate hit we have also been hit by component price rises particularly on semiconductors. laser blocks, due to the Japanese Yen being even more affected; back in the summer and before that you could get around 220 JPY for every £1, now you only get 134, that's an effective price rise of 64% (ie something going up from £100 to £164!) see www.dailyfx.com if you don't believe me. No wonder Sony and Toyota etc etc have been posting losses like never before. Like others we do hedge our currency however you can only do so for so long, currency fell off a cliff 6 months ago now.
We thought long and hard about every price rise and even held some where we could due to stock hedging allowing us to do so. Our increases, where they have happened actually show us now making significantly reduced margins - absorbing some of the rises we have been faced with. Bear in mind not all products are affected right now due to us passing on the benefits of certain product stock hedging, so buy now while you can still enjoy lower prices or while you can succeed in negotiating with Richer stores while prices have just gone up, you won't be able to for too long now. This will be a tricky time for the AV industry and the magazines when reviewing product as prices will rise if they haven't already (margins in our industry mean rises can't be absorbed fully), so magazines will need to check thoroughly when reviewing products when a price rise is coming if it hasn't already happened, then the tests they do can be fair, objective and genuinely useful to readers (price obviously makes a big difference!). At Cambridge we have always worked hard and passionately to deliver great foot-tapping products with very high levels of value for money so I am confident we can continue to do this, despite the necessary price rises which our competitors have too.
PS on 740C this was a Richer promo for a very limited time to clear their silver stocks (only) at what I would suggest is effectively a loss-making price so they could focus sales on black, that has in recent times proved more popular. They did have quite a good stock of boxed units but I guess they have probably been exhaused by now
And even "UK" manufacturers must be needing to raise prices as almost all now buy their populated PCBs, aluminium front panels and other components in from the Far East (in USD) if not whole finished products like us (they don't shout about it but many "UK" manufacturers are now doing this widely now and under UK law it's not compulsory to mark the product with the country of origin as long as you don't mislead by "suggesting" it by writing a UK address for example (although many flout those rules anyway)).
To spell out the exchange rate hit that the UK has taken, back in August (and for a long time prior to that) we were buying USD at 1.95 to the £, i.e. if we bought something for USD1000 it cost us £512.80 (100/1.95). Today's rate is 1.44 (and it has gone as low as has gone as low as 1.35 recently) which means that same USD1000 item now costs us a whopping £694.40 (100/1.45) - that's an increase of over 35%!!! So to thfcwestlower's comment "Even in these volatile forex markets 25pc increase in DAC magic seems a like it would expand their margin!" all I can reply is "in my dreams!!!!" On top of that the Chinese Renminbi currecy has strengthened against the USD so that has increased effective buying prices too and even though some might raise commodities falling recently the "street" price that our factories buy at is still far higher than it was most of last year. On top of the exchange rate hit we have also been hit by component price rises particularly on semiconductors. laser blocks, due to the Japanese Yen being even more affected; back in the summer and before that you could get around 220 JPY for every £1, now you only get 134, that's an effective price rise of 64% (ie something going up from £100 to £164!) see www.dailyfx.com if you don't believe me. No wonder Sony and Toyota etc etc have been posting losses like never before. Like others we do hedge our currency however you can only do so for so long, currency fell off a cliff 6 months ago now.
We thought long and hard about every price rise and even held some where we could due to stock hedging allowing us to do so. Our increases, where they have happened actually show us now making significantly reduced margins - absorbing some of the rises we have been faced with. Bear in mind not all products are affected right now due to us passing on the benefits of certain product stock hedging, so buy now while you can still enjoy lower prices or while you can succeed in negotiating with Richer stores while prices have just gone up, you won't be able to for too long now. This will be a tricky time for the AV industry and the magazines when reviewing product as prices will rise if they haven't already (margins in our industry mean rises can't be absorbed fully), so magazines will need to check thoroughly when reviewing products when a price rise is coming if it hasn't already happened, then the tests they do can be fair, objective and genuinely useful to readers (price obviously makes a big difference!). At Cambridge we have always worked hard and passionately to deliver great foot-tapping products with very high levels of value for money so I am confident we can continue to do this, despite the necessary price rises which our competitors have too.
PS on 740C this was a Richer promo for a very limited time to clear their silver stocks (only) at what I would suggest is effectively a loss-making price so they could focus sales on black, that has in recent times proved more popular. They did have quite a good stock of boxed units but I guess they have probably been exhaused by now
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