Buy RP1, RP3, or RP6 considering plans to upgrade

[VinylEcstasy]

Hello all, I've scoured the forums and read many posts on the debate over which turntable to buy, but I haven't quite found the specific guidance I am looking for.

I'm getting back into the vinyl game and need to purchase a new turntable. At this point, I've pretty well settled on getting a Rega TT along with a Nagaoka cart. I'm wondering what Rega TT to buy if I have plans on upgrading in the following ways.

From the research I've done, it seems that even the RP6 - and certainly both the RP3 and RP1 - benefit from upgrading to the Groovetracer platter and subplatter. With that being said, if I plan on upgrading to the GT platter (haven't decided on Delrin or Acrylic yet) and subplatter, and using a Nagaoka cart, is it worth the extra money for the RP3 or RP6? Do the tonearm, plinth, and other differences warrant the cost variance between the three models with the upgrades in mind? I'm really at a loss on this. I just can't get a read on whether or not doing those upgrades and using that cart would get me roughly the same performance but at a significant cost savings.

Also, since I am not planning on using the stock Rega carts, is a spacer sufficient, or would it be recommended to get something like the Michell VTA Adjuster?

Really appreciate anyone who takes time to respond to this. I'm willing to invest if it is undoubtedly worth it, but obviously don't want to burn money if the planned upgrades makes the base model differences rather negligible.

So, in summary:

- If using a Nagaoka cart, Groovetrace platter and subplatter, is it best to go for the RP1, RP3, or RP6? Would a stock RP6 with the Nagaoka cart outperform the RP3 with the Groovetracer upgardes? Just want to make sure that the increased cost is worth it (for example does getting the RP1 with those upgrades provide 95% of what I'd get from the RP6).

- Are spacers sufficient for using the Nagaoka cart, or should I look at something along the lines of the Mitchell VTA Adjuster?

- I'm unable to demo the Groovetracer platters - any recommendations on the Delrin platter vs. the Acrylic?

Excited to have finally joined the community! I've been a voracious reader and lurker for months and benefited greatly from the knowledge sharing and passion on this forum

 

[Al ears]

Welcome to the forum....... now for the bad news

Personally I wouldn't buy any turntable with a view to instantly upgrade it with something non-stock, I'd spend the money on the next turntable up the line (and I'd go for a ProJect ), or move on up to the next cartridge. (Much more improvement in sound quality for your money).

Having said that if you fully intend to do just that then I wouldn't think going for anything more expensive than the RP3.

Spacers should be fine but if you intend to keep long-term and possibly change more cartridges in the future then the VTA adjuster should definitely be comsidered as money well-spent because it is 'infinitly adjustable'.

Never heard the GrooveTracer platters and I very much doubt you'll hear any difference between them.

 

[VinylEcstasy]

Welcome to the forum....... now for the bad news

Personally I wouldn't buy any turntable with a view to instantly upgrade it with something non-stock, I'd spend the money on the next turntable up the line......

Wow - a huge thanks for the quick response! I genuinely appreciate it.

So it seems like the your recommendation is to spend the overall money on a stock TT, instead of starting with something I immediately plan on upgrading. As I think about that, the theory makes sense to me - I just wasn't sure if it was a way to get similar performance as an RP6 (or something comparable) by buying a lower model and upgrading it for a lower overall cost. But I suppose, getting the best components for your initial budget really makes sense when looking at it for the longhaul. I really appreciate the feedback and it is well received. I don't take it as bad news - but sound guidance (horrible pun intended)!

You mentioned going for a Project - any particular models to look at? It seems as though the Debut Carbon DC is sort of Project's equivalent to the RP1, but I'm less familiar with what would be comparable to the RP3 or RP6. Honestly, the RP3 is pushing my comfort range with budget, and the RP6 certainly is, but I can be easily swayed if the differences are substantial and make it a no brainer if the cash can be found. Would you mind expanding more on why you would recommend looking at a Project? I've read statements that there is less of an upgrade path available with Project, but I'm not sure if that is someone with a bad attitude throwing out unwarranted claims, or true. It also seems to be an apples and oranges situation with Project and Rega, meaning if you like apples get a Rega and if you like oranges get a Project, but I'd love to hear your opinion on this. Feel free to explain as much as you'd like, I'm a captive audience and incredibly grateful for the insight of others.

I do intend to keep the TT for the longterm, so thanks for pointing out the VTA as a good solution in that context. I know Hi-fi is an addicting and exciting rabbit hole to go down, but I'm hoping to be using the purchased TT for a minimum of 5-10 years (ideall even longer). Next purchases will be focused more on the receiver and speaker side of things.

You mentioned cartridges and I'm in complete agreement, I don't want to go with the stock cartridge or a less than desireable option. My plan was to purchase the TT without a cartridge, and then based on what I've read on the forums look into the Nagaoka MP-200. My impression is that this is getting me into the range where I'd be quite satisfied and get solid performance without spending a ton.

I'm very excited to make a decision one way or the other and get set up! I'd ideally like to come to a decision and make a purchase in the next 1-2 weeks.

 

[Al ears]

Very glad you found my contribution to be helpful.

I think you are making a very wise decision to purchase a turntable without usual fitted cartridge (which seems to be getting a lot harder to do these days). The Nagaoka range is excellent value for money that is extremely hard to beat, in my opinion.

Possibly the only reason I suggested the Pro-Ject range was because I do not like the cartridges that come fitted as standard the Rega's but as you are avoiding these then this becomes less of a problem (Had a couple of these myself ending with the older Planar 3).

Probably the Project 1 Expression is on a par with RP3 and maybe something like the 6 Perspex as a RP6 replacement.

It very much comes down to which you like the look of as each range can be upgraded with power supplies / speedboxes (negating manual belt-drive fiddling) etc.

If you do head down the Rega route might I suggest you aim to put funds into an RP6 because if you get the RP3 you'll always be wondering 'what if.... ?'

 

[stevebrock]

If you go for an RP6 then really the Nagaoka MP200 wipes the floor with the Exact, it really is

 

[bebelacus]

I was set on RP3 and just before paying i asked the dealer to spin the RP6 just for fun. The first song and initial deal went away. To my ears sounded better than anything below the price and/or same category. I even tried a Clearaudio Concept.
Anyway, i got the RP6 with Exact cartridge and Micromega MyGroove phono preamp at a good price.
I cant tell you about other combinations but what i got sounds so musical that i dont feel the need to sesrch for something better, it is so musical, dynamic, quiet, a very full, rounded sound.
But i am curious how it would sound with that Nagaoka cartridge...

 

[thescarletpronster]

Hi, and welcome to the forum.

Unless I've missed it in amongst the rest of the text, you haven't mentioned what the rest of your kit is. This would seem to me to be one of the biggest factors in deciding which TT to buy. There's no point pairing an RP6 with a £200 amp, for instance, because the sounbd quality will be limited by the amp. If you're starting from scratch and going to buy everything to go with the TT, just keep in mind that generally you'll want to be spending a similar amount on each box, so if you get a £1000 RP6, you'll want to spend something like £1000 on an amp and the same on speakers, so keep that in mind when budgeting. At least, that's my understanding of the rule of thumb; perhaps others will contradict it. Plus there are accessories such as hi-fi rack, speaker cables, etc.

I also would recommend starting with an off-the-shelf TT (perhaps with your own choice of cartridge), get used to it and then start experimenting with upgrades (if you want to), so that you have an idea of how much they improve the sound, if at all. I bought some platter upgrades (silicone mat and sub-platter dampening) from a company called SRM Tech, which seems fairly good. The differences were subtle but evident. Also a white drive belt from Rega - seems crazy but that really did make the sound more focused. I have an RP3 - the RP6 might come with that fitted.

 

[bebelacus]

Yes, confirm my RP6 came with a white belt. Cant tell how much of a difference makes because obviously never thought of swapping it with the RP3 belt.
Anyway, everything on RP6 seems to add up to the sound quality. And the sound...to die for. Fuller, more dinamic and morr detailed than on RP3. To me it was really night and day.
So, my suggestion is going with the RP6 with Exact cartridge. Or at least to give it a try. My other components are Audiolab 8200CDQ, 2 x Audiolab 8200M monoblocks, Wharfedale Jade 5 speakers. I also have a pair of Spendor A5 which i want to use them on a future second system in my attic. It sounds sweet with the Spendors too.

 

[thescarletpronster]

Yes, but my point was that we don't know what other components the OP has (at least, I haven't noticed that). If s/he has a £200 amp and speakers, there's little point buying an RP6.

 

[7760]

Yes, but my point was that we don't know what other components the OP has (at least, I haven't noticed that). If s/he has a £200 amp and speakers, there's little point buying an RP6.

Nothing [substantial] yet, apparently, according to this bit in post #3: "Next purchases will be focused more on the receiver and speaker side of things."

 

[Al ears]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to strongly disagree with thescarletpronster's advise. Irrespective of what other kit the OP has, telling him to go and buy a bog-standard turntable is of limited use. If the OP feels he can afford the RP6 then why the heck shouldn't he use it for the start of his system. Buying anything cheaper would be throwing money down the drain in the long term.

And as for the amp possibly being a limiting factor well............... I'll leave it there.

 

[thescarletpronster]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to strongly disagree with thescarletpronster's advise.

That's fine, Al, disagree away - I'm not an expert.

And as for the amp possibly being a limiting factor well............... I'll leave it there.

Is that not the case? I've always been advised about hi-fi (including, I think, from this magazine back in the 80s when I was first getting into hi-fi) that a system will always be limited by its weakest link. If you've spent £2000 on each of your TT, amp and speakers but connect them up via cheapo copper cable, they're not going to sound very good because the speaker cable can't transmit a clear enough signal, and so the money spent on the other components would have been money down the drain.

My understanding has always been that there's little point spending big money on one component unless you're going to spend money to get components of equivalent quality for each of the other links in the chain. Is that not the case? Otherwise I could have blown my whole budget on a Gyrodec two years ago and hooked it up to my 30-year-old Rotel RX-820-BA and Wharfedale Diamonds through the bog-standard speaker cable I had, but I'm sure that wouldn't have given me the results I get from my current set-up.

I'd love to know if the advice I've based my buying on is wrong.

If the OP has good quality components to add a TT to, or if he's thinking of upgrading everything in the future, then of course spending money now on a better TT is a good idea.

 

[bebelacus]

No need to argue and explain, options are so many and our ears are all different to each other's. A friend of mine brought his Dali Zensor 3 over to try them with my amps and sources. Rp6 sounded really good, absolutely fantastic with them too. But it didnt sound as good with a pair of Tannoy DC6T and an early 90's Technics amp. But this is endlessly debatable because of so many possible combinations and our so different tastes.

 

[respe]

I have messed around with P2, P3, P25. Messed around includes sub platters from the states, acrylic platters, techno weights,

I would suggest you either get a P3 outboard psu and leave well alone, other than a aftermarket subplatter the other bits change the sound a bit, improve the sound is a different argument. Add up the cost of a RP6, and all the add on bits, then have a look around for a used P9. It is everything a tarted up RP6 could ever hope to be, and then some. Hard to put into words, but good as the 3-5, 6 are, the P9 is a superdeck at a real world price.

 

[Al ears]

I have messed around with P2, P3, P25. Messed around includes sub platters from the states, acrylic platters, techno weights,

I would suggest you either get a P3 outboard psu and leave well alone, other than a aftermarket subplatter the other bits change the sound a bit, improve the sound is a different argument. Add up the cost of a RP6, and all the add on bits, then have a look around for a used P9. It is everything a tarted up RP6 could ever hope to be, and then some. Hard to put into words, but good as the 3-5, 6 are, the P9 is a superdeck at a real world price.

You might indeed be correct here, I for one would agree, but if you re-read the OP's original post he actually states a new turntable. Otherwise I would have suggested ditching the Rega idea and getting a second-hand Roksan Radius 5.1.

 

[VinylEcstasy]

Wow - Been an insane week at work so lost track of this post - and I can't thank you all enough for chiming in! I absolutely love active forums - getting various opinions, being able to get my thinking challenged, and sometimes some reassurance that I'm not making insane decisions.

Well - things changed substantially since my post. As I had mentioned, I largely had my mind set on a Rega, but dedicated shopping and browsing, some planetary alignment, and an amount of luck that may mean I'm a Leprachaun has led to a deal I absolutely could not pass. Come Wednesday, I will be the proud owner of a VPI Classic 1 with an Ortofon 2M Black cartridge. It has been a LONG, LONG time since I've been this excited for something.

I'm going to respond to some posts, but for ease of digestion, I'm going to split my responses up to avoid one huge long post.

 

[VinylEcstasy]

thescarletpronster - you are absolutely right. Having a high end turntable hooked up to a 25 preamp and other equally subpar components would be a waste form the perspective that the quality sound oupout of the table itself would not translate across the downstream components. Very solid advice to provide as people may not be aware of that when getting into the game (and being that I'm new to the forum, I very well could have been someone making that mistake, so I appreciate it).

Al ears - your comment on using the RP6 as the start of my system is exactly what my thinking was. I am planning on upgrading everything I have to an entirely new caliber. Since I needed to get a new turntable now, my plan was to choose a model that would be supportive of my desired future state. I know the rest of my components are borderline offensive to connect this table to, but that is ok for now.

I also decided to take the approach of starting with an "off the shelf" table as thescarletpronster recommended doing. This to me is a hobby for the longhaul, so no need to rush tweaking the table, and knowing I have an upgrade path with the table is all I need to know.

Now it's on to upgrading the other links in the chain! Which brings me to my next round of questions - see the next post if interested in continuing the discussion!

 

[VinylEcstasy]

Bahh... just had my browser unexpectedly quit and lost my dang post... so here's the short version.

- Are RCM really worth it? Even with new vinyl, or vinyl in excellent condition? My mind wants to tell me that a thorough manual process is sufficient. It's hard to tell hype from fact on this topic.

- Any highly recommended manual process that could be shared or linked to?

- As stated before, TT was step one, now I introduce you to the Grand Canyon that exists between my new VPI Classic 1 and the rest of my system (life circumstances separated me from my previous hi-fi setup and this is what I ended up with in the split) :

- TEAC AG 790 receiver with built in phono preamp (Product Info Page)

- Boston Acoustics TVee Model 25 Speakers (Product Info Page)

- Both of the above obviously have to be replaced to have a system that does the Classic 1 justice, but which should be upgraded first to notice the biggest improvement? I'm not sure which is the weakest link in the picture right now.

Thanks everyone! I love starting to get involved in a forum with people that share this passion!

 

[ifor]

Next I would get some decent speakers. I'd follow that with a phono preamp and then new amp. Leave the RCM until last. Having recently built some Frugel Horn Mk3s, which sound really good for the money, I'd go the DIY speaker route if time allows (check out IPL Acoustics also, if interested).

The single most impressive bit of kit I have ever bought is my phono preamp. I was amazed by how much better than an apparently "very good" built in one it is.

 

[VinylEcstasy]

I honestly hadn't even considered building my own speakers prior to your last post - now I'm looking up the Frugel Horn Mk3s and seeing a whole new level to the hobby. I appreciate the suggestion and throwing in your opinion to focus on speakers first, phono preamp, then amp. It's amazing how quickly a component begins to mock me from across the room when it suddenly becomes the weak link....

 

[VinylEcstasy]

Since the topic of my post has shifted, I decided to start a new topic. For any interested in discussing/weighing in, the post is here - What to upgrade next - phono preamp, amp, or speakers?

Thanks for all that responded to this thread!