Bi-wiring yes or no?

[Gaz37]

Firstly sorry if this has been done to death but I'm new here if that's an excuse.

I've just bought a new (second hand) NAD 3130 amp which has two sets of speaker outputs & speaker A&B switching, my speakers, B&W DM600, are bi-wireable so I was wondering if it is worth investing in some bi-wire cable &going for it.

Internet opinion seems to be divided on whether or not bi-wiring actually improves SQ so I was wondering what people's personal experiences are?

Also is proper bi-wire cable recommended or will a second run of the same cable suffice?

Thanks

 

[hybridauth_Google_114527108984844294355]

I used to run an old arcam alpha 5 amp wih mission 780se speakers. I honestly couldn't tell any differnce between bi wired and regular setup but then I'm no classically trained musician. I had proper bi wire cable if that helps.

In all honesty I thik you would have to have amazing hearing to really notice much difference. You're probably better with a high quality normal cable than a cheapish bi-wire cable.

The bi wire cable I had was also very thick, difficult to hide and manipulate.

 

[Infiniteloop]

I used to BiWire a pair of Sonus Faber Concerto's. There was quite definitely a difference. The sound was more focused than with a single connection.

 

[Gaz37]

Thanks for the replies, it seems to be 1-1 so far, so the jury is still out.

I guess for the sake of 4 metres of Cambridge Audio Concerto cable (what I'm currently using) I may as well find out for myself lol

Unless anyone thinks I'd get more gains from better cable?

 

[grdunn123]

Have tried it in the past with expensive speakers (£2K+) and with expensive cables (£100 a metre) and although I really wanted to try to convince myself there was an improvement, there really wasn't. I would save your money or buy something that will give you a real benefit.

 

[jonathanRD]

Hi Gaz - I think this subject is one that you need to try for yourself as you are not going to get an overwhelming majority decision here.

A few years back I changed from some old QED silver based cable to bi-wired Chord Carnival Silverscreen for my old Mission 780's and thought the improvement was quite noticeable. However, after reading so many cable debates I did not bother bi-wiring my new RS5 floorstanders, I simply swapped the bi-wire cable with the single wire I was using for my BX2's on my home cinema system and haven't thought about it since.

 

[Anderson]

Provided you're already using something 2.5mm and above to wire your speakers you will see no benefit biwiring.

 

[FennerMachine]

Some speaker cross-over's or amps with A/B outputs MIGHT benefit from bi-wiring.

Generally though, a single 2.5mm2 copper cable costing a few £ per metre will do the same job as expensive bi-wire cable.

Try for yourself if you can get them on free trial, but make sure you test over many days and swap back and forth every few days to make sure any 'improvement' you hear is real.

From someone who has tried and bought various cables and now uses Van Damme 2.5mm.

 

[andyjm]

The physics of the situation would indicate that biwiring is generally a bad thing.

Unlike a diode or a transistor, copper cable is a linear component. Double the voltage and you double the current. In simple terms, this means different frequency signals can be carried by the cable without interfering with each other. In a normal single cable set up, low frequency signals going down the cable to the woofer don't 'see' the high frequency signals going to the tweeter, its as if each driver has its own cable.

Now move to a biwire situation, and apart from forking out more money, you are no better off. Each driver has its own cable, but so what?

The potential problem with biwiring is at the crossover point. At this point, both the woofer and tweeter are driving. Using simple numbers and a simplified example, assume that the round trip resistance of the speaker cable is 1 ohm. In a single cable system this resistance is constant at all frequencies, and will lead to a small reduction in speaker volume, but no change in tonal balance. In a biwire system, for low frequencies and high frequencies the effective resistance is 1 ohm, so no change there. At the crossover frequency however, both conductors are carrying signal and the effective resistance is now 0.5ohm (not quite correct, but you get the idea).

This will result in a small uplift in response for frequencies at and around the crossover point. This may or may not be audible, but it is certainly measurable.

So, using a biwire set up, you gain nothing, but have the potential for putting a bump in the frequency response of the speaker at crossover point. You may prefer this sound, but it doesn't sound a compelling argument to me.

edit:

Should have added - if you short the biwire cable at both ends (red to red, black to black) you effectively parallel up the conductors. This will halve the resistance of the cable and will generally be beneficial. So no need throw the biwire cable away, just replace the shorting plate on the back of the speaker, and you have an instant upgrade.

 

[chebby]

No.

 

[Covenanter]

No

Chris

 

[RobinKidderminster]

No fan of Biwire nor biamp but interesting advice from speaker manufacturers and almost all offer the additional terminals. Would you buy a speaker with only one pair of posts?

 

[SteveR750]

No too. I don't even bother with jumper cables either.

 

[BigH]

No fan of Biwire nor biamp but interesting advice from speaker manufacturers and almost all offer the additional terminals. Would you buy a speaker with only one pair of posts?

Yes I would as I don't believe biwiring has any benefit, in fact it can introduce phase problems. The Kef LS50s only have 2 terminals and they were speaker of the year for 3 years running.

 

[matt49]

No fan of Biwire nor biamp but interesting advice from speaker manufacturers and almost all offer the additional terminals. Would you buy a speaker with only one pair of posts?

Yes I would as I don't believe biwiring has any benefit, in fact it can introduce phase problems. The Kef LS50s only have 2 terminals and they were speaker of the year for 3 years running.

Yes too. My speakers only have one pair of terminals, and they are perfect.

 

[his dudeness]

have to say maybe different speakers suit bi wiring,i didnt biwire my tannoys for a couple of months but had the cables in place,when i did there really is a big improvement,i was really surprised,ive tried other speakers in the past and made no difference at all.

 

[bigfish786]

Of binding posts on the focals.

Funnily enough, I use audioquest cable, which has four runs of separate cable in each length, So I join two pairs up, at each end. And stick them in a banana plug. Job done.

 

[Gaz37]

Well I decided to bite the bullet & find out for myself so invested in a second run of speaker cable.

I have to say the improvement was amazing!

However, and here's the daft bit, I can't say for sure if the improvement was due the fact that it was the first time I used the new amp, or the biwiring. I suspect it may be mostly down to the amp.

So no definitive conclusion regarding biwiring but I can say that without any shadow of doubt a NAD 3130 sounds a hell of a lot better than a 3020i, at low levels the clarity is astounding by comparison, it actually has bass below 2 on the volume & I discovered that on the intro to Pink Floyd's High Hopes there is a bee buzzing between the speakers- never heard that before with the 3020. Popular opinion seems to be that NAD amps went downhill after the 3020 but if this 3130 is anything to go by that is very very wrong!

Thanks for all the replies about the biwiring though, I'll have to try the setup with single cables once I'm more used to the sound

 

[SteveR750]

Well I decided to bite the bullet & find out for myself so invested in a second run of speaker cable.

I have to say the improvement was amazing!

However, and here's the daft bit, I can't say for sure if the improvement was due the fact that it was the first time I used the new amp, or the biwiring. I suspect it may be mostly down to the amp.

So no definitive conclusion regarding biwiring but I can say that without any shadow of doubt a NAD 3130 sounds a hell of a lot better than a 3020i, at low levels the clarity is astounding by comparison, it actually has bass below 2 on the volume & I discovered that on the intro to Pink Floyd's High Hopes there is a bee buzzing between the speakers- never heard that before with the 3020. Popular opinion seems to be that NAD amps went downhill after the 3020 but if this 3130 is anything to go by that is very very wrong!

Thanks for all the replies about the biwiring though, I'll have to try the setup with single cables once I'm more used to the sound

You cannot change two variables in an experiment and expect a reliable result. Other than that, the 3130 was a great amp, I had one for years back in the day.

 

[MickyBlue]

no

 

[Anderson]

Well I decided to bite the bullet & find out for myself so invested in a second run of speaker cable.

I have to say the improvement was amazing!

However, and here's the daft bit, I can't say for sure if the improvement was due the fact that it was the first time I used the new amp, or the biwiring. I suspect it may be mostly down to the amp.

So no definitive conclusion regarding biwiring but I can say that without any shadow of doubt a NAD 3130 sounds a hell of a lot better than a 3020i, at low levels the clarity is astounding by comparison, it actually has bass below 2 on the volume & I discovered that on the intro to Pink Floyd's High Hopes there is a bee buzzing between the speakers- never heard that before with the 3020. Popular opinion seems to be that NAD amps went downhill after the 3020 but if this 3130 is anything to go by that is very very wrong!

Thanks for all the replies about the biwiring though, I'll have to try the setup with single cables once I'm more used to the sound

Congratulations on your improvement, I would suggest it's your amp that's made the difference

 

[Gaz37]

Well I decided to bite the bullet & find out for myself so invested in a second run of speaker cable.

I have to say the improvement was amazing!

However, and here's the daft bit, I can't say for sure if the improvement was due the fact that it was the first time I used the new amp, or the biwiring. I suspect it may be mostly down to the amp.

So no definitive conclusion regarding biwiring but I can say that without any shadow of doubt a NAD 3130 sounds a hell of a lot better than a 3020i, at low levels the clarity is astounding by comparison, it actually has bass below 2 on the volume & I discovered that on the intro to Pink Floyd's High Hopes there is a bee buzzing between the speakers- never heard that before with the 3020. Popular opinion seems to be that NAD amps went downhill after the 3020 but if this 3130 is anything to go by that is very very wrong!

Thanks for all the replies about the biwiring though, I'll have to try the setup with single cables once I'm more used to the sound

Congratulations on your improvement, I would suggest it's your amp that's made the difference

That's pretty much what I thought too