Bi-amping

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Greetings forum!

Okay, just wanting to hear from personal experiences. Do you use bi-amping/bi-wiring? Do you see significant improvement?

Specially looking forward to hear about bi-amping using Speaker B or Surround channel outputs.

 

[Anonymous]

Greetings Janjeetrain! I'm a bit of a newbee, but can comment on my experiences, to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I tried bi-wiring my RS6's (as recommended inthe Monitor Audio manual) and the result was very subtle if it was there at all. I bi-wired one and made links for the other out of my speaker cable and if anything, I was surprised to find the bi-wired one had a meatier, fuller sound and the linked on sounded a bit 'thinner'.

Complete opposite of what I expected and goes against the grain of what I thought I should expect, but thats what I heard. And comparing each side using the balance isn't great with stereo recordings!

As I said - it was very subtle and I suspect it was more speaker positioning and room effects more than anything.

I left them bi-wired, cos it saved me from beggaring about making more links. Ought to compare them now they're the same I guess...

Oh - using the 'speaker B' outputs isn't bi-amping - they're connections to the same amp. As far as I know anyway.

Lettuce know what you find with your bi-wiring etc fiddling.

Bloney

 

[Anton90125]

I used to have two VTL 30/30 amps in a bi amped/ bi wired configuration with a pair of Celestion SL600 's.

The improvement in changing from one 30/30 to two was mostly stereo image and depth.There was also a feeling of a tighter sound- less boomy-ness which was quite amazing in that the SL600 don't suffer from a boxy sound (Aerolam cabinet). My next amp a Copland CTA401 still managed to better this VTL 30/30 duo. I am now considering using a Rogers Cadet in a bi amped config with my Unison Research SR1. I am thinking about using the SR1 to drive the bass while using the Cadet to drive the top. My speakers are Townshend Glastobury's Mk1.Cabling 3m pair of Townshend Isolda and 3m pair of Linn.

I have heard the difference with biwiring and can testify to its benefits. Biamping takes it to the next logical level.

 

[Thaiman]

Not for argument purpose (ok, Ant?)

Biwire = Waste of time and Money.

Bi-amp = Improved the over all control of speakers.

IMO and E.

 

[Anonymous]

Personally my experience is with Thaiman.

I changed from vdh cs-122 to vdh tea-track and found no noticeable difference.

(Before you think me a (more of a) fool, fhe reason for the change was I found the tea-track on ebay, got two 10m lengths for 100quid, and I *do* intend to bi-amp. I now have all the pieces in place apart from the second amplifier. Ultimately I hope to tri-amp using the cs-122 as well but that's a whole different story.)

 

[Quickben]

Hi there !

I'm new to the forum, but have just started reading What Hifi again (the last time I subscribed, it cost me 3 grand) after 4-5 years.

As for bi-wiring, I've got my KEF Q1's bi-wired from my Speaker B channel on my AV reciever. It makes no difference at all. I just can't be bothered to pull the wires out, so I've left them connected. If I switch channel B off, the sound doesn't change at all. It may be the accoustics in my living room that stop me from hearing the difference in the first place, but I doubt it. Or it could be that my method (AV rec/ B channel) is flawed.

Hope this helps.

Gary.

 

[Andrew Everard]

You've almost certainly done something wrong - if you switch off the Speaker B outputs, you should lose whichever 'half' of the speakers, treble or bass, you have connected to those terminals.

Have you removed the jumper links on the back of the speakers?

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Quickben"]I'm new to the forum, but have just started reading What Hifi again (the last time I subscribed, it cost me 3 grand) after 4-5 years[/quote]

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"]I have heard the difference with biwiring and can testify to its benefits[/quote]

If you hear a large difference with biwiring it probably means that your original speaker cable wasn't really up to the job.

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Thaiman"]

Not for argument purpose (ok, Ant?)

Biwire = Waste of time and Money.

Bi-amp = Improved the over all control of speakers.

IMO and E.

[/quote]

Thaiman: There is no danger of an argument as we all have our opinions and they are each as valid as the other. Besides it might be a bit boring if everyone agreed about everything- don't you think???

I use Isolda and Linn. The Isolda to the bass. I tried swapping the two over ie Linn to the bass and Isolda to the treble- the result was ugly. I believe the weakest link was the Linn cable. I am trying to get a second pair of Isolda (SH) but recently the Ebay final values have been going stupid.

I bought my Isolda (3m) (Ebay) for £235.

The last 2 lots of 3m pairs went for £410 and £289 respectively (£500 new) . I have some AudioQuest Midnight which I will tryout instead of the Linn.

 

[Anonymous]

In my opinion bi-wiring is a very hit and miss affair, it really depends on your speakers / ears to notice the difference. Bi-amping, in my experience, now that's definitely worth considering even more so if you go the dedicated pre/power amps route.

What kit are you considering bi wiring/amping?

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Quickben"]
the last time I subscribed, it cost me 3 grand

[/quote]

Ah, we've reduced our subscription rates a bit since then - now only £8.75 for three issues here.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"][quote user="Quickben"]
the last time I subscribed, it cost me 3 grand

[/quote]

Ah, we've reduced our subscription rates a bit since then - now only £8.75 for three issues here.

[/quote]

That must be better. But you get WHF for INR 100 (or is it 150?) that a little over £1

But wait, isn't the one circulated in India, an Indian edition, published in India with localized contents?

 

[Anton90125]

[quote user="Zoot Horn Rollo"][quote user="Anton90125"]I have heard the difference with biwiring and can testify to its benefits[/quote]

If you hear a large difference with biwiring it probably means that your original speaker cable wasn't really up to the job.[/quote]

Good to hear from you OldPhrt!

When I did my original biwiring tests I had good quality cables (more the one kind/make) available which all sounded good. We tried many combinations of cables (most blind tested thus nullifing any placibo effects) and found that we could tune the sound of the speakers- in this case some Rogers LS6 speakers. This biggest common (independent of cable chosen) effects between biwiring and non birwiring where:

[*] 1.Sweeter treble [*] 2.Tighter bass- the speaker sounded less like boxes

In all due repect to you opinion , we did hear a difference which had nothing to do with the quality of the original cable.

But at the end of the day this post was asking opinion of biwiring/ biamping . I gave mine others gave theirs some of which though different to mine is equally valid.

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="ranjeetrain"]

But wait, isn't the one circulated in India, an Indian edition, published in India with localized contents?

[/quote]

Yes.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
You've almost certainly done something wrong - if you switch off the Speaker B outputs, you should lose whichever 'half' of the speakers, treble or bass, you have connected to those terminals.

Have you removed the jumper links on the back of the speakers?
[/quote]

If the jumper links have been left in won't this damage the amps?

jules.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Not if the Speaker A and Speaker B terminals are coming off the same amp channels, which they are. If you were using different amp channels for the treble and bass sections, then yes you could cause some expensive damage.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Anton90125"]But at the end of the day this post was asking opinion of biwiring/ biamping . I gave mine others gave theirs some of which though different to mine is equally valid. [/quote]

Exactly! I needed to hear personal experiences, which I am glad I got. Its a different story reading test lab results and personal experiences, something you will need to experiment yourself to get to know.

Browsing, I recently came across an yamaha stereo amp, which is being sold at a rather good price (by local standards) by an online retailer. That made me curious and wanting to check how other are feeling after bi-amping/bi-wiring.

Thanks to all for sharing their experiences!

 

[Quickben]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"][quote user="Quickben"]
the last time I subscribed, it cost me 3 grand

[/quote]

Ah, we've reduced our subscription rates a bit since then - now only £8.75 for three issues here.

[/quote]lol, you know what I mean . . . .

 

[Quickben]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]

You've almost certainly done something wrong - if you switch off the Speaker B outputs, you should lose whichever 'half' of the speakers, treble or bass, you have connected to those terminals.

Have you removed the jumper links on the back of the speakers?

[/quote]

Ah, you might be on to something. The last ime I tried switching the B channel off, the jumper links were still fitted (I was trying to see the difference between 1 amp vs 2 amps, so to speak). I think I'll try it again as I've since removed the links. However, I didn't really notice a difference between having them fitted and after taking them off. Could I have phasing problems ?

Gary.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Quickben"]The last ime I tried switching the B channel off, the jumper links were still fitted (I was trying to see the difference between 1 amp vs 2 amps, so to speak). I think I'll try it again as I've since removed the links. However, I didn't really notice a difference between having them fitted and after taking them off. Could I have phasing problems ?[/quote]

Nope. If you have really excellent speaker cable there shouldn't actually be any difference at all.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Andrew Everard"]
Not if the Speaker A and Speaker B terminals are coming off the same amp channels, which they are. If you were using different amp channels for the treble and bass sections, then yes you could cause some expensive damage.
[/quote]

Thanks for the info.

jules.

 

[Andrew Everard]

[quote user="Quickben"]
I was trying to see the difference between 1 amp vs 2 amps, so to speak. I think I'll try it again as I've since removed the links. However, I didn't really notice a difference between having them fitted and after taking them off. Could I have phasing problems?[/quote]

You really wouldn't be hearing the difference between one amp and two, as the A and B terminals are fed off the same amp input, with just a switch to divert the sound to one or the other or both.

Re phasing problems, yes it's worth checking all the connections to make sure something hasn't been hooked up back to front somewhere - we've all done it - but I would suspect that if you'd done that you would have found one channel of your receiver going pop when you had the jumpers in place, as that channel's output would effectively be shorted out.

 

[Anton90125]

From my personal experience. The effect of biwiring can vary with the types and combinations of cables. By carefully chosing the right combo of cables with the right speakers, you can get a really nice sound. The cable combo can be used (as well as the benefits from bi wiring) like a passive tone control to effect to overall tonal presentation of your speaker. For a more technical account of biwiring you might want to take a look at

http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/4953.html

This is quite interesting in that it explains the physical principles as to why bi wiring works in a way thats not too heavy.

I take it you are from India? What is the second hand market like there?

 

[JoelSim]

I can testify that biamping really works on my Arcam kit. Much cleaner sound, it was like a good upgrade in itself. Less muddled, much sweeter. I wouldn't bother with biwiring tho'.