Balanced XLR cables for audiolab system

[Pete Shields]

Can anybody recommend good balanced XLR cables to go with my Audiolab MDAC and new Audiolab MPWR amp.

I'm currently using chord Chameleon RCA cables which sound good, but I've read that balanced XLR is the way to go.

thanks

 

[davedotco]

I would use Klotz or Mogami branded cables with Neutric connectors.

Buy them from a pro shop like Studiospares at Staples Corner, expect to pay around £30-40 per cable.

These are, in essence mic cables so tend to be quite long, you may have to order if your requirements are for short runs.

 

[Garett]

I'd give VDC Trading or Canford Audio a try, you can have them made to your own specs. Always go with Neutrik connectors they are the industry standard for professional use, more down to their durability than anything else.

 

[ifor]

I would use Klotz or Mogami branded cables with Neutric connectors.

Buy them from a pro shop like Studiospares at Staples Corner, expect to pay around £30-40 per cable.

These are, in essence mic cables so tend to be quite long, you may have to order if your requirements are for short runs.

... would you want balanced cables for short runs?

 

[andyjm]

I'm currently using chord Indigo RCA cables which sound good, but I've read that balanced XLR is the way to go.

I would put whatever you are reading in the bin.

All other things being equal, there is no benefit to using balanced cables for short runs in a domestic environment. That isn't so say that in your specific case, that the designer of the amp hasn't made a better job of the balanced connections than the RCA, but as a general rule, balanced signals introduce more steps in the chain and as a result it could be argued that RCA is 'more pure' (whatever that means).

One advantage of balanced interconnects is that they are used by pro musicians who don't have money to waste on nonsense branding, so they are usually good value for money. If you want to give this a try, balanced mic cables are a good choice. As pointed out above, mic cables are usually long for obvious reasons, but shorter patch cables are also available. Googling 'balanced XLR patch cable' brought up a number of offerings - I found what appears to be a good quality Neutrik / Van Dam patch cable for £12.

 

[lpv]

I would go for Van Damme with Neutrik connectors

http://www.vdctrading.com/shop/

 

[davedotco]

Electro - The Van Dammes you link to are fine, I prefer the better construction quality of Klotz or Mogami but for hi-fi use that might be overkill.

Ifor - I wouldn't, but the OP does. His system, His choice.

Andyjm - All quite right but decent XLR cables are not expensive/rip off as you say, try it and see. Personally I like the robustness.

 

[andyjm]

Andyjm - All quite right but decent XLR cables are not expensive/rip off as you say, try it and see. Personally I like the robustness.

Dave, I think we agree.

My reference to expensive cables was aimed at the HiFi jewelry RCA interconnects, not at balanced XLR. Having said that, I am sure if you try you can pay the earth for fancy balanced cables made out of the fluff off a unicorn's bum to match the milled aluminium case of your $10,000 amplifier, but given the large market of cash strapped musicians, it does seem that there are plenty of good price well made balanced cables available.

 

[Pete Shields]

Thanks for the responses guys, looks like I've started a cheap/expensive cable war again!

Ok, to help me understand things a little better,

1) Does balanced cables mean that the two are balanced to each other, ie cut form the same length, or something akin to that?

2) Will that matter if I only need two half metre cables? Once the cables are installed they will probably only ever be disconnected during upgrades/decorating, so they don't have to have a microphone quality build.

3) Will my system of Audiolab M-DAC / M-PWR sound any better than with XLR cables than the Chord Chameleon RCA's I currently use. The one review I saw of the M-PWR said that XLR's made a difference but if anybody else out there has experience, please let me know.

4) What sort of budget should I be plumping for? My head said £150, so the cables talked about in this chain are coming in considerably less.

All help appreciated!

 

[bluedroog]

Hi Peter,

1) Does balanced cables mean that the two are balanced to each other, ie cut form the same length, or something akin to that?

Nothing like that, I'm not an electircal engineer by any stretch but I believe they use a differnenet design topology. RCA cables are unbalanced and XLR tend to be balanced, although this isn't always the case for example if you use RCA to XLR cables. There shouldn't be any differnenece in qulaity although some report instances where there is. Balanaced have an advantage in that they are better at rejecting noise which isn't an issue in a domestic set up anyway, musicians favour them as they have long cables and often crossing one another on stage etc. Balanaced sometimes operate a little louder which can give the impression they sound better or also can be useful if the extra gain is needed.

2) Will that matter if I only need two half metre cables? Once the cables are installed they will probably only ever be disconnected during upgrades/decorating, so they don't have to have a microphone quality build.

It shouldn't matter. Short is best at any rate.

3) Will my system of Audiolab M-DAC / M-PWR sound any better than with XLR cables than the Chord Chameleon RCA's I currently use. The one review I saw of the M-PWR said that XLR's made a difference but if anybody else out there has experience, please let me know.

Hard to say, I doubt it but it may be louder. Still I use XLR out from my M-DAC, I just like the way they fit if nothing else!

4) What sort of budget should I be plumping for? My head said £150, so the cables talked about in this chain are coming in considerably less

Don't throw that sort of money on XLR cables. Get something well made but with no bling, pro audio shops for about £50 will be perfectly fine..

 

[Electro]

Van Damme starquad balanced XLR cables custom made at any length and a large choice of colours from a company called Designacable.

http://www.designacable.com/dj-rca/mic-leads/van-damme-star-quad-balanced-male-xlr-to-female-xlr.html

Top quality Van Damme starquad config cable with Neutrik plugs and sockets for a very good price.

I use them in my system .

Edit.

I also use Van Damme DMX / AES EBU 110 ohm balanced cables for digital signals.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

Out of interest, aren't balanced XLR cables shielded?
Could be useful if the back of your rack looks like the proverbial plate of spaghetti like mine, especially with an AV receiver with eleven speaker patch cables to a wall plate, plus two subwoofer cables, more mains leads than I care to count, etc.?

 

[davedotco]

Out of interest, aren't balanced XLR cables shielded? Could be useful if the back of your rack looks like the proverbial plate of spaghetti like mine, especially with an AV receiver with eleven speaker patch cables to a wall plate, plus two subwoofer cables, more mains leads than I care to count, etc.?

There is no electrical reason for balanced (or unbalanced) to be shielded, they work fine either way.

Shielding a cable is to prevent random electrical fields from getting onto the signal and causing noise, in electrically noisy environments thay may be of some benefit. Think of the output of a typical microphone, similar in level to the output of a mm phono cartridge being sent through 30ft of cable across the studio floor, very different environment to a home hi-fi.

Many hi-fi cables use a co-axial construction, single centre conducter for the signal and a screen which also carries the 'return' signal. Given that this is an alternating current music signal, it is hard to see how this construction can keep noise out of the signal return.

 

[andyjm]

There is no electrical reason for balanced (or unbalanced) to be shielded, they work fine either way.

Shielding a cable is to prevent random electrical fields from getting onto the signal and causing noise, in electrically noisy environments thay may be of some benefit. Think of the output of a typical microphone, similar in level to the output of a mm phono cartridge being sent through 30ft of cable across the studio floor, very different environment to a home hi-fi.

Many hi-fi cables use a co-axial construction, single centre conducter for the signal and a screen which also carries the 'return' signal. Given that this is an alternating current music signal, it is hard to see how this construction can keep noise out of the signal return.

I am afraid Dave is wide of the mark here.

Although the two conductors in a screened cable do form a circuit, it is better to think of the screen as being stationary and the centre conductor swinging positive and negative relative to this stationary point. The screen is called 'ground' for a reason, in many systems it is actually connected to the earth lead in the plug, and then on to a ground rod at the nearest transformer.

Thinking of the screen in the cable as a stationary ground now makes sense as to its function - it forms an eathed Faraday cage around the signal lead, protecting it from stray EM fields that would introduce noise. Unscreened cable will work as a low level interconnect, but anything except the shortest run will pick up mains and hum.

 

[davedotco]

There is no electrical reason for balanced (or unbalanced) to be shielded, they work fine either way.

Shielding a cable is to prevent random electrical fields from getting onto the signal and causing noise, in electrically noisy environments thay may be of some benefit. Think of the output of a typical microphone, similar in level to the output of a mm phono cartridge being sent through 30ft of cable across the studio floor, very different environment to a home hi-fi.

Many hi-fi cables use a co-axial construction, single centre conducter for the signal and a screen which also carries the 'return' signal. Given that this is an alternating current music signal, it is hard to see how this construction can keep noise out of the signal return.

I am afraid Dave is wide of the mark here.

Although the two conductors in a screened cable do form a circuit, it is better to think of the screen as being stationary and the centre conductor swinging positive and negative relative to this stationary point. The screen is called 'ground' for a reason, in many systems it is actually connected to the earth lead in the plug, and then on to a ground rod at the nearest transformer.

Thinking of the screen in the cable as a stationary ground now makes sense as to its function - it forms an eathed Faraday cage around the signal lead, protecting it from stray EM fields that would introduce noise. Unscreened cable will work as a low level interconnect, but anything except the shortest run will pick up mains and hum.

Makes sense, however there are plenty of hi-fi products out there that keep signal and chassis earth separate so suggesting that the screen is connected firmly to ground is not allways true.

The screen may simply be floating, hence my thoughts.

That said, this is very academic, I use 3metre phono cables (Van Damme) of co-axial construction with my active speakers and they are absolutely fine.

In the past I have also used similar runs of unshielded, unbalanced cables (Nordost, XLO) with no ill effects.

 

[Benedict_Arnold]

I suppose the only way to know if the shielding is actually connected within the end plug(s) is the old battery and buzzer test.
If the cables in question aren't shielded, you've been ripped off.
I think one can assume that hi-fi manufacturers at the higher end (who tend to be the only ones who provide XLR sockets) actually do bother to earth (or ground, depending on which side of the Atlantic you are) them.
And yes, the shielding does stop RF pickup if grounded, and no, RCA cables do not do this, even if coaxial. On a well laid out rack with plenty of space between wires it may be moot, but like I said, if the back of your setup looks anything like mine....

 

[davedotco]

I suppose the only way to know if the shielding is actually connected within the end plug(s) is the old battery and buzzer test. If the cables in question aren't shielded, you've been ripped off. I think one can assume that hi-fi manufacturers at the higher end (who tend to be the only ones who provide XLR sockets) actually do bother to earth (or ground, depending on which side of the Atlantic you are) them. And yes, the shielding does stop RF pickup if grounded, and no, RCA cables do not do this, even if coaxial. On a well laid out rack with plenty of space between wires it may be moot, but like I said, if the back of your setup looks anything like mine....

There are plenty of interconnects that are unshielded by design, I have used (and sold) several types including premium XLO and Nordost without the slightest problem in all kinds of setups. These were both balanced and unbalanced designs and were absolutely fine.

There are different ways of building a cable, with or without a screen. The common co-axial phono cable is fine most of the time, but can cause issues with grounding as it is usually connected to signal ground at both ends. If the components tie signal and chassis ground together you can easily have issues.

My prefered construction is to use a twin core cable, send and return, with a separete screen grounded at one end only. One of the few examples of cables being genuinely directional.

XLR cables are even more complex, you can keep signal ground (pin 1) separate from chassis ground (connector 'shell') or link them as you wish, can cause problems for the unwary.

There are a

 

[ifor]

... I don't think anyone has explained to the OP what a balanced cables is/does.

This might help http://www.aviom.com/blog/balanced-vs-unbalanced/

 

[Pete Shields]

So the geneal concensus is I may get a slight sound improvement, it may have a slightly louder output (which is not important to me) and there is no need to spend big bucks?

The last point still has me in a quandry. I remember noticing a mega improvement when i added my chord chameleon RCA's (i got them ex demo on ebay, so not silly money) over some old QED's. I also understand the logic with digital cables, but XLR's are also analogue so my brain is in the buy chord again mindset.

Does anybody have any good experiences with going with a chord type product....ie pricier option.

 

[Pete Shields]

Thanks for that Ifor. So for my half a metre run, at home, balanced/unbalanced cables shouldn't make a jot of difference. i just need to nail the Chord or cheaper discussion now!

 

[Al ears]

Thanks for that Ifor. So for my half a metre run, at home, balanced/unbalanced cables shouldn't make a jot of difference. i just need to nail the Chord or cheaper discussion now!

Oh dear I thought it might come to that. ;-)

Unless your whole system is fully balanced, and it isn't, there is little point in spending out on the balanced XLR interconnects.

I will go no further on a cable discussion.

 

[Electro]

Thanks for that Ifor. So for my half a metre run, at home, balanced/unbalanced cables shouldn't make a jot of difference. i just need to nail the Chord or cheaper discussion now!

Oh dear I thought it might come to that. ;-)

Unless your whole system is fully balanced, and it isn't, there is little point in spending out on the balanced XLR interconnects.

I will go no further on a cable discussion.

True, except that balanced XLR cables are usually better made with more secure plug connections and they are mostly cheaper, so why not install the best .

They are fit and forget you never have to worry about interconnects again, you have already have the best possible connection between components.

 

[Al ears]

Possibly more secure, depends on what type of RCA connector being employed. It is also highly unlikely you're going to trip over a cable in a HiFi, as opposed to studio, environment.

Not too sure where you get cheaper from, in my experience any cable fitted with XLR is invariably dearer than the same cable supplied with RCA ( check out the Chord price list for example).

 

[Electro]

Possibly more secure, depends on what type of RCA connector being employed. It is also highly unlikely you're going to trip over a cable in a HiFi, as opposed to studio, environment.

Not too sure where you get cheaper from, in my experience any cable fitted with XLR is invariably dearer than the same cable supplied with RCA ( check out the Chord price list for example).

I was talking about quality proffesional XLR cables not designer boutique brands.*smile*

My system is fully balanced from input to output so it makes absolute sense for me to use XLR cables, in fact I don't really have a choice as my power amps only have Balanced XLR connections.

I would still use them in an unbalanced system if the choice of XLR sockets were available mainly for ultimate plug security and long lasting good connection also peace of mind .

 

[Al ears]

Possibly more secure, depends on what type of RCA connector being employed. It is also highly unlikely you're going to trip over a cable in a HiFi, as opposed to studio, environment.

Not too sure where you get cheaper from, in my experience any cable fitted with XLR is invariably dearer than the same cable supplied with RCA ( check out the Chord price list for example).

I was talking about quality proffesional XLR cables not designer boutique brands.*smile*

My system is fully balanced from input to output so it makes absolute sense for me to use XLR cables, in fact I don't really have a choice as my power amps only have Balanced XLR connections.

I would still use them in an unbalanced system if the choice of XLR sockets were available mainly for ultimate plug security and long lasting good connection also peace of mind .

I know your system and a very good one it is to. I have also used XLR cable with the Primare Pre / Power I used to own but only because I had some lying around. Most people would have to go and intentionally buy them but might have RCA cables to hand in which case the added security of fit might come second to additional outlay.