AVI DM5

[lpv]

every workplace ( and forum) have these kind of people.. the ones that ' always stick to the walkways', or ' you should be setting an example' or ' according to policy'

but when they're in charge it become a real danger..

 

[lpv]

AVI DM10 6.5" mid/bass driver is 5 Ohms and the amp produces 50 Volts and 10 Amp peaks so 500 Watts. Sensitivity is 87 db/W/M

can't handle that sh!t? or what?

Hi,

You misunderstand a peak current capability to continuous power capability.

Regards,

Shadders.

I've said peak babe.. ( just a reminder in case you can't see things properly as a result of an obsessive thoughts)

 

[shadders]

AVI DM10 6.5" mid/bass driver is 5 Ohms and the amp produces 50 Volts and 10 Amp peaks so 500 Watts. Sensitivity is 87 db/W/M

can't handle that sh!t? or what?

Hi,

You misunderstand a peak current capability to continuous power capability.

Regards,

Shadders.

You run out of steam mate and you keep repeat yourself..

looks like now you have a mission to answer evey single entry..

MODERATORS - can we have this thread locked so shadders can have some fresh air?

Hi,

I only answer where a respondent states new information.

You have thoroughly misunderstood amplifiers.

The peak you quote, is just that, a single peak. The 500watts you have quoted is not sustainable. All manufacturers quote continuous power capability, even ATC active speakers, or Event active speakers quote continuous.

Why then do AVI quote a peak?

There is more. Peak indicates continuous amplifier power multiplied by SQRT(2). We should be talking about burst power capability. In this conext, we know what you mean when you say peak.

If you have AVI speakers, run them hard for 20 minutes or so, and see what the temperature is on the back plate.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[lpv]

Why then do AVI quote a peak?

go and ask them.

 

[ID.]

Going off on a slight tangent, does anyone have a rough idea of how much power is lost to passive crossovers?

i think I tried Googling it a while ago but couldn't come up with much beyond guesses of around 10 watts. I suppose it must vary depending on the passive crossover itself (or other factors?).

 

[lpv]

your help it's on the way..

shadders?

( please remember, investigation style as usual.. go ahead)

 

[avole]

your help it's on the way..

shadders?

( please remember, investigation style as usual.. go ahead)

Why do you believe the propaganda?

What Shadders, HG et al have said is quite accurate, yet you react like someone in denial. You're not helping the cause. You'd be better asking Mr Grindrod what the specs really are. This won't affect the performance of the speakers in anyway, although they might sell more if the sales/marketing people were to be honest for once.

You should look at the other forums, where the specs have been ridiculed often.

 

[Electro]

PMC video as requested.

Note carefully what is said in the last 25 seconds. *smile*

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3A4UMh1AOHw

 

[shadders]

Why then do AVI quote a peak?

go and ask them.

Hi,

It is the responsibility of the person who quotes the 250watts in their post to backup their argument to qualify the facts. I will question them, but I am not using this information to support my argument.

The AVI owners have used these figures in their arguments in their posts.

Again, other manufacturers such as Event and ATC used continuous power rating in their specifications for their active speakers.

AVI are quoting a "peak" which just so happens to be a nice big number. I wonder why?

You have been duped.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Electro]

Another good video from PMC about crossovers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MW_O-0vPgg

 

[shadders]

Going off on a slight tangent, does anyone have a rough idea of how much power is lost to passive crossovers?

i think I tried Googling it a while ago but couldn't come up with much beyond guesses of around 10 watts. I suppose it must vary depending on the passive crossover itself (or other factors?).

Hi,

I have not been able to simulate this since the figures are not available for the equivalent resistances in the coils (inductors) or losses in the capacitors. The components will present themselves as impedances, and if good quality, predominantly will be reactances, hence the losses will be minimal.

Losses will be proportional to power input to the speakers system.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[lpv]

Why then do AVI quote a peak?

go and ask them.

Hi,

It is the responsibility of the person who quotes the 250watts in their post to backup their argument to qualify the facts. I will question them, but I am not using this information to support my argument.

The AVI owners have used these figures in their arguments in their posts.

Again, other manufacturers such as Event and ATC used continuous power rating in their specifications for their active speakers.

AVI are quoting a "peak" which just so happens to be a nice big number. I wonder why?

You have been duped.

Regards,

Shadders.

you should say " some avi owners"... not me, ever and anywhere.

for the record: if DM10s are for example 100W per channel into x load I still take that instead of 100W per channel thru passive crossover.

 

[shadders]

AVI DM10 6.5" mid/bass driver is 5 Ohms and the amp produces 50 Volts and 10 Amp peaks so 500 Watts. Sensitivity is 87 db/W/M

can't handle that sh!t? or what?

Hi,

You misunderstand a peak current capability to continuous power capability.

Regards,

Shadders.

I've said peak babe.. ( just a reminder in case you can't see things properly as a result of an obsessive thoughts)

Hi,

Whatever the value, your peak is just that, a burst of power which cannot be sustained. The 500watts is a burst of power, which if continued will cause a catastrophic failure.

This burst of power cannot be used as a metric to validate the amplifier capability. Whenever amplification is discussed, it is always specified as a continuous rating, and hifi magazines, or the manufacturer, may state the burst power, or maximum burst current.

AVI, and AVI owners are quoting 250watts. Given the distinct lack of heatsinking on the DM10, it is not possible to sustain the 250watts. So why state it?

When AVI owners state that the amplifier is 250watts, they are misinforming others on this forum. AVI do NOT state the conditions of the 250watts power capability, so people will see this figure, and other figures on other manufacturers websites. They will assume (since they will probably not know any different) that the figures are to be used to compare, and AVI will look more powerful than ATC. If we assume AVI is 50watts continuous (a figure someone else has proposed, and I think is appropriate), then it is 3x LESS powerful than ATC, but stated figures result in AVI being 65% more powerful, which is just not the case.

Why have I said all this?

AVI owners are continuously denigrating passive systems (broken, handicapped, power sapping crossover), and newcomers to the forum are being misled. Why should you as a collection of people be allowed to spread misinformation tomthe benefit of AVI?

Abrahamsen amplifiers are also a favourite on here, but, they do NOT denigrate other amplifiers, only state the positives of their amplifier, from what I have seen.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[hg]

AVI DM10 6.5" mid/bass driver is 5 Ohms and the amp produces 50 Volts and 10 Amp peaks so 500 Watts. Sensitivity is 87 db/W/M

An amplifier and power supply that is constrained to safely deliver around 50W continuous which can also deliver peaks of 500W would be odd. You would have the cost of much of a 500W amplifier. If the input voltage asks for 500W continuous output the power supply voltage would have to rapidly sag from 50V down to 15V or so in order that a safe 3A or so is delivered to the driver. An alternative might be a bigger more expensive power supply and additional limiting ciruitry to do the sagging. If the ratio of peak to RMS is a conventionally modest one then few musical signals are going to get distorted by asking the power supply to deliver what is not there. As the ratio rises this becomes more likely.

I don't know what AVI have done with the DM10 amplifier and power supply but if one of the owners was to turn their control amplifier upto 11 playing a sine wave for a minute or two and the driver seizes solid it might enlighten us.

 

[shadders]

Why then do AVI quote a peak?

go and ask them.

Hi,

It is the responsibility of the person who quotes the 250watts in their post to backup their argument to qualify the facts. I will question them, but I am not using this information to support my argument.

The AVI owners have used these figures in their arguments in their posts.

Again, other manufacturers such as Event and ATC used continuous power rating in their specifications for their active speakers.

AVI are quoting a "peak" which just so happens to be a nice big number. I wonder why?

You have been duped.

Regards,

Shadders.

you should say " some avi owners"... not me, ever and anywhere.

for the record: if DM10s are for example 100W per channel into x load I still take that instead of 100W per channel thru passive crossover.

Hi,

The AVI owners have collectively stated what i refer to. Some have said parts, but agree, not all have stated all what I have said.

I have a 60W amplifier, and the heatsinks are finned, with single pair on transistors per channel. I would not expect the AVI amplifier to be 100W given the heatsinking provided.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[lindsayt]

you should say " some avi owners"... not me, ever and anywhere.

for the record: if DM10s are for example 100W per channel into x load I still take that instead of 100W per channel thru passive crossover.

Cool, so would you expect 2 watts maximum through a passive crossover to sound like a (please tick the box):

[ ] disastor

[ ] really bad

[ ] bad

[ ] significantly and easily noticeably worse

[ ] worse

[ ] a bit worse

[ ] about the same

[ ] better

[ ] I don't know. It all depends.

 

[hg]

Going off on a slight tangent, does anyone have a rough idea of how much power is lost to passive crossovers?

i think I tried Googling it a while ago but couldn't come up with much beyond guesses of around 10 watts. I suppose it must vary depending on the passive crossover itself (or other factors?).

The low frequency driver will typically have no padding resistors to dissipate power and reduce the ouput (it would be a pretty poor design if it did), a midrange may or may not and the tweeter usually will. The padding resistors are typically rated somewhere around 10W and near maximum output your figure of 10W looks to be in the right ball park. In itself a small loss of power due to a passive crossover getting a bit warm would not appear to be a signifcant issue compared to the heat lost in the amplifiers and drivers.

 

[lpv]

so you judging power amp rating by looking at the pictures?

check this

no heatsinks at all? and they claim 100W per channel? must be liars !! call dr shadder !!

 

[hg]

so you judging power amp rating by looking at the pictures?

check this

no heatsinks at all? and they claim 100W per channel? must be liars !! call dr shadder !!

What do you think that plate might be made out of? Is there metalwork/heatsinks on the other side of the plate? How efficient is the amplifier when delivering 100W?

 

[lindsayt]

The frequency response chart shown on the Unity Audio website for their Rock Mark II is a totally misleading work of marketing art / fiction:

This website here explains the tricks they're up to:

http://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/audio-measurements

On that basis I would be very skeptical about the 100 watt amplification claims by Unity Audio. They don't state whether this figure is 8 ohms continuous or not.

 

[shadders]

so you judging power amp rating by looking at the pictures?

check this

no heatsinks at all? and they claim 100W per channel? must be liars !! call dr shadder !!

What do you think that plate might be made out of? Is there metalwork/heatsinks on the other side of the plate? How efficient is the amplifier when delivering 100W?

Hi,

Yes, no heatsinks which are external, and it would be a very poor design if the hewtsinks were internal - where will all the heat go?

The figures have gone from 250watts down to 100watts. The quoted figures still do not seem accurate.

The ATC active speakers are quoted at 150watts for the LF driver and there is a very large heatsink on the rear of the speaker. It does not seem propable that the AVI is 100watts given no heatsink external.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Morgunner]

Has anyone got real experince of how the DM10s compare to the Opals in terms of performance putting specs aside? I did speak to one chap who had owned both and he was favourable about both but prefered the Opals by some distance. Curious as to what other think?

http://hddaudio.net/bb/viewtopic.php?id=1448

"Against" ADM9s, though, DM10s do perform better.

 

[lpv]

give me a hero with a white devialet 4500W vacuum cleaners and we'll do a little comparison.. and you shadder, you could join us with your 60W whatever amp... are you up to it? or you going to carry on with this babble forever? how about a bit of listening for a change?

 

[shadders]

give me a hero with a white devialet 4500W vacuum cleaners and we'll do a little comparison.. and you shadder, you could join us with your 60W whatever amp... are you up to it? or you going to carry on with this babble forever? how about a bit of listening for a change?

Hi,

People respond to you, myself primarily, since the data you provide does not make sense. I have never questioned someones subjective experience, except in that I have stated, people may prefer a small enclosure sound.

I have never questioned that an active system, if well designed, can sound better than a well designed passive system, and that an active system, technically has more advantages than disadvantages.

What I have always challenged is the misinformation regarding AVI specifications (amplifier spec) and the denigration of passive speakers based on the misinformation regarding the AVI system.

If you are happy with your system, then great, this was never questioned or challenged.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[lpv]

can you please contact Avi and tell them all about it? they'll respond instantly.. I'm sure, if you're right in all that you've said they will change the numbers on heir website in a blink of an eye. Don't ask me why you have to do this because if you put so much energy on this forum to fight miss information I think you should challange manufacturer, not customers. We don't have equipment to measure power amp output, they do. I, personally, do not argue with anyone using Avi specs.. I just have a laugh as it's amusing to what extremes both you and avole ( especially you) go.. the fact is: ( if you don't know)

I owned electrocompaniet and atc amps, atc 11, atc 19 and atc 40 actives and dm10 sounds better..

andrew visited me with his hegel h360 & atc 11 and to him dm10 sounds better

luckylion replaced pmc twenty 22 & roksan pre/ power with dm10 and avi sounds better

I understand your point: Avi presents false power rating numbers on their website

I say: tell them about it, challange them, not customers.