AVI DM5

[shadders]

can you please contact Avi and tell them all about it? they'll respond instantly.. I'm sure, if you're right in all that you've said they will change the numbers on heir website in a blink of an eye. Don't ask me why you have to do this because if you put so much energy on this forum to fight miss information I think you should challange manufacturer, not customers. We don't have equipment to measure power amp output, they do. I, personally, do not argue with anyone using Avi specs.. I just have a laugh as it's amusing to what extremes both you and avole ( especially you) go.. the fact is: ( if you don't know)

I owned electrocompaniet and atc amps, atc 11, atc 19 and atc 40 actives and dm10 sounds better..

andrew visited me with his hegel h360 & atc 11 and to him dm10 sounds better

luckylion replaced pmc twenty 22 & roksan pre/ power with dm10 and avi sounds better

I understand your point: Avi presents false power rating numbers on their website

I say: tell them about it, challange them, not customers.

Hi,

Ok, I see the confusion. This thread is for the DM5, yet all claims for 250watts and 500watts are referenced to the DM10, as per other threads.

For the DM5 I can see how it could be 100watts, since it is a class D amplifier.

All discussion of the 250watts/500watts is referenced to the class A/B amplifier in the DM10. Therefore, the quotes in this thread and other threads for the DM10 re 250watts/500watts, which have been challenged here, still stand.

Subjective experience is not challenged, only the misleading statements.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[shadders]

so you judging power amp rating by looking at the pictures?

check this

no heatsinks at all? and they claim 100W per channel? must be liars !! call dr shadder !!

Hi,

I examined the manual for the Rock MkII, and it states " 2 x bespoke true class A/B 100watt discrete amplifier..... Total output 100watts. "

So, the first line looks like each amplifier is 100watts, but the second line indicates the total power is 100watts. So which is correct?

They state that the maximum output level is 105dB. If we assume the amplifier is 100watts, then this infers the speaker sensitivity is 85dB. I know this is possible, but I doubt that 85dB is the correct value.

Let us assume that the LF driver is 89dB, which will require 16dB power amplification to attain 105dB. The 16dB power amplifier equates to 39.8watts. The manual states that extended listening at sustained high levels may damage the driver - overheat. It states that levels in excess of 105dB are possible, but does not state explicitly whether damage occurs at 105dB or in excess 105dB.

Given the heatsinking capability of the rear panel, I would anticipate that the amplifier is probably not 100watts each amplifier, but substantially less.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[chebby]

Edited by mods

Racial slurs are definitely against house rules (and illegal too).

Reported.

 

[luckylion100]

need to grow a pair. It's a tough world out there! Despite the differences of opinions on here I don't believe that there's been any posts that have warranted the intervention of the moderator. Not on this thread anyway. Edit, just seen the 'Polish' comment, so take that back.

To constantly have it implied that buyers of AVI in general are gullible fools is insulting, especially coming from people with no personal experience of the product in question. It's laughable! I agree with IPV take it up with the manufacturer. I'd be interested in the company's reply just as I wait in eager anticipation of the bake off feedback.

I'm not one to be sold a heap of sh*t then either kid myself it's a quality product or simply lay down and take it. If I'd been conned I'd be kicking off in the extreme. But thanks for your concern. ;-)

They're still fantastic speakers and still blow away my old PMC Twenty 23's regardless of the ratings or other peoples opinions..

 

[shadders]

need to grow a pair. It's a tough world out there! Despite the differences of opinions on here I don't believe that there's been any posts that have warranted the intervention of the moderator. Not on this thread anyway. Edit, just seen the 'Polish' comment, so take that back.

To constantly have it implied that buyers of AVI in general are gullible fools is insulting, especially coming from people with no personal experience of the product in question. It's laughable! I agree with IPV take it up with the manufacturer. I'd be interested in the company's reply just as I wait in eager anticipation of the bake off feedback.

I'm not one to be sold a heap of sh*t then either kid myself it's a quality product or simply lay down and take it. If I'd been conned I'd be kicking off in the extreme. But thanks for your concern. ;-)

They're still fantastic speakers and still blow away my old PMC Twenty 23's regardless of the ratings or other peoples opinions..

Hi,

My approach is that if I make a statement, then I own that statement. If it is in error, then it is my responsibility to put it right. I will not make statements which I do not understand the content. The problem is that in using data in your arguments, you should have an understanding of what it means, and be able to analyse the data to ensure that it is accurate, as far as possible.

People on this forum have used this data to support their argument without understanding the details or whether the information they are quoting is accurate. This is understandable as this is a users forum, not a technical forum. If people are going to argue technical merits, then they should be competent in the subject area.

No one has stated AVI customers are gullible fools or AVI equipment is substandard. What we have done is challenge the AVI owners, or others, arguments when they are supoorted by erroneous data. That is all that has occurred.

My statement that you (colloquially) have been duped is that you (colloquially) have readily accepted the data from AVI, this data does not meet the industry standard of specifying that data content, and as such, using this information in arguments means you have been duped into believing the system performance is better than reality.

Under no circumstances has your subjective experience been challenged or criticised.

What is unacceptable is AVI owners being consistently rude given that all that has been challenged is the data.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[Alberich]

What's the story with the personal attacks?!
Shadders has the right to present his argument, systematically if desired, without being subjected to immature personal insults.
Last time I checked this was a public forum.
My short time on this forum has come to an end as behaviour typical of people like IPV truly repulses me.
Shame on you drummerman as well.

***I've edited / removed the remark people found racist***

 

[avole]

To be fair, shadders, I did ask lpv why he believed in it.

There is a lot of nonsense being talked on this thread, and it is sad that most, if not all, comes from one side. Would be good is one of the AVI forum members would ask the designer what the real story is, and how he feels about the marketing. He must blush every time he sees this and similar threads.

 

[shadders]

To be fair, shadders, I did ask lpv why he believed in it.

There is a lot of nonsense being talked on this thread, and it is sad that most, if not all, comes from one side. Would be good is one of the AVI forum members would ask the designer what the real story is, and how he feels about the marketing. He must blush every time he sees this and similar threads.

Hi Avole,

I understand that there is a repeating of data from AVI, but the extreme rudeness from people is not acceptable. I am not sure I have encountered such an avid belief in a physical product which produces such behaviour in its defense.

Regards,

Shadders.

 

[lpv]

What's the story with the personal attacks?! Shadders has the right to present his argument, systematically if desired, without being subjected to immature personal insults. Last time I checked this was a public forum. My short time on this forum has come to an end as behaviour typical of people like IPV truly repulses me. Shame on you drummerman as well.

***I've edited / removed the remark people found racist***

you have no shame, do you?

immature personal insults hey?

how about your racist - removed - comments?

( thanks chebby you quote that cra.p so we all can see it)

you're only a new member ( and looks like shapeshifter already) on this forum so stay away and watch babe..

 

[Romulus]

At last I have auditioned the AVIDM10 speakers. The people who question the quoted output of this speaker, I don't think they have heard it in action. To my experience there is no lack of power in their sonic personality and they can certainly fill a medium room with sound with ease. So in my humble opinion all this argument as to quoted output misses the true point of these speakers. I think for someone who loves their music, is familiar with various different styles of playing instruments by various musicians and is familiar with different instruments (eg Gibson Guitar and Stratocaster), will recognise the attributes of these speakers instantly. The dynamic range for me was exquisite. I listened to Wagner's Seigrfeid Funeral March, the music starts of quite normally in volume and builds up to a crescendo, the increase in volume was quite swift - but it was the clarity of the instruments involved what got my attention - I think this is where the 'active way' has advantage on the 'passive way' if price involved is the same. Naim are famous for PRAT, well it seemed PRAT was certainly part of the AVI make up because I started to notice the way the musicians were playing. The stop and start of the beat seemed more pronounced. However what I was not so used to was the sound came out what I can only describe as hard. Maybe because with active way there is far less distortion and I used to the bloom and warmness of my humble passive system. There was no night and day moment from the start of the audition, speakers sounded like any other HiFi system. Its only when I started to listen to them that I started to notice little things, and the speakers certainly can do depth in soundstage, I say this because I listened to Berlioz's March to the Scaffold. For me if there is no depth in soundstage this piece of music falls flat (like it does on my small system) and all meaning to the piece is lost. On these speakers I felt the tension of this music as each step took the person closer to eventual death. Anyway I will now listen to the my system to see if there is truly any difference and will I feel frustrated in any way to the sound..?

 

[avole]

adding anything to the argument. These are apparently decent 4 star speakers, but it is the fudging of the specs and questionable marketing that is the problem.

 

[drummerman]

The thread was about the review. A hint for folks that may be interested. The 'argument' is only for the arm chair 'experts' such as yourself.

Don't you think it would be more informative for others (and yourself) if you'd actually make an effort to get of your bum to listen to them?

 

[Andrewjvt]

The thread was about the review. A hint for folks that may be interested. The 'argument' is only for the arm chair 'experts' such as yourself.

Don't you think it would be more informative for others (and yourself) if you'd actually make an effort to get of your bum to listen to them?

Ja plus one but then they wont have a job

 

[Andrewjvt]

can you please contact Avi and tell them all about it? they'll respond instantly.. I'm sure,  if you're right in all that you've said they will change the numbers on heir website in a blink of an eye. Don't ask me why you have to do this because if you put so much energy on this forum to fight miss information I think you should challange manufacturer, not customers. We don't have equipment to measure power amp output, they do. I, personally, do not argue with anyone using Avi specs.. I just have a laugh as it's amusing to what extremes both you and avole ( especially you) go.. the fact is: ( if you don't know) 

I owned electrocompaniet and atc amps, atc 11, atc 19 and atc 40 actives and dm10 sounds better.. 

andrew visited me with his hegel h360 & atc 11 and to him dm10 sounds better

luckylion replaced pmc twenty 22 & roksan pre/ power with dm10 and avi sounds better

I understand your point: Avi presents false power rating numbers on their website 

I say: tell them about it, challange them, not customers. 

There are many more
A chap that owns active atc scm50s even said the dm10s were better stereo image and clarity

 

[radiorog]

There are many more A chap that owns active atc scm50s even said the dm10s were better stereo image and clarity

Better stereo imaging and clarity, but better overall sound??? For me, I'll be looking for realism in the tones and frequencies produced when I get to hear them. ie: does the frequency of a live instrument,closely match that of what the speakers convey.

 

[chebby]

can you please contact Avi and tell them all about it? they'll respond instantly.. I'm sure, if you're right in all that you've said they will change the numbers on heir website in a blink of an eye. Don't ask me why you have to do this because if you put so much energy on this forum to fight miss information I think you should challange manufacturer, not customers. We don't have equipment to measure power amp output, they do. I, personally, do not argue with anyone using Avi specs.. I just have a laugh as it's amusing to what extremes both you and avole ( especially you) go.. the fact is: ( if you don't know)

I owned electrocompaniet and atc amps, atc 11, atc 19 and atc 40 actives and dm10 sounds better..

andrew visited me with his hegel h360 & atc 11 and to him dm10 sounds better

luckylion replaced pmc twenty 22 & roksan pre/ power with dm10 and avi sounds better

I understand your point: Avi presents false power rating numbers on their website

I say: tell them about it, challange them, not customers.

There are many more A chap that owns active atc scm50s even said the dm10s were better stereo image and clarity

Is anyone prepared to commit and say the DM10s blow away any other loudspeaker, ever made, without exception?

Please stop with all the weasel words and tip-toe'ing around the issue and the endless pseudo-technical 'niggling' from both sides that goes around & around forever.

Leave it all out on the field (as our yank friends like to say) and let's hear the mighty yawp of AVI fan unto AVI fan, up-and-down the land, proudly asserting that the DM10s are the best loudspeakers that have ever been made and that to merely consider anything else is sheer folly and will bring disaster.

You know you want to. Make Ashley proud of you.

Oh, and Andrew ... get a pair! Seeing them listed in your signature will make me believe you mean it.

 

[luckylion100]

And took a calculated risk and purchased the DM10 without audition.

I make no such claim other than to state (again) that I'm currently enjoying a vast improvement over what I had previously. Anf what i had before was modest kit.
To the science boffins on here my words of praise mean little but I've actually sat down and listened to the blinking things. They haven't, end of.

The only quote I've seen that is close to the mention of the DM10's being conquerer of all things passive came from the company. That's where the 'experts' here need to raise their queries.

Whatever the true figures it makes zero difference to me or my enjoyment of the music.

 

[ID.]

As I've said, I'd blind buy the DM10s if I lived in the UK.

Ive never gotten worked up about the figures and just think of it like the Japanese manufacturers who like to quote into 4 ohms, or even one channel driven, just so they can give a bigger number.

E.g. 4 ohms 1% THD so they can quote 70 watts

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/en/products/cs-n1075-133073.html?tab=Details

 

[lpv]

I was a huge atc fan and was preaching about it when I had it.. if I would buy harberths/ croft/ auralic combo ( which I wanted) and I liked it you would see me all over the place with harbeth stickers.. that's all.. I bought Avi.. DM5 at first, to see what's it's all about and liked it and bought DM10.. and you see me with Avi stickers all over the place.. I don't care much about specs as long as it's all sounds as it sounds.. I think manufacturers should be challanged on the specs, not customers.. I don't like to be put in any fan club by anyone.. I just bought speakers that I like.

 

[CnoEvil]

This argument will carry on ad nauseam until the two separate issues of SQ and quoted specs, stop being conflated.

 

[Andrewjvt]

There are many more A chap that owns active atc scm50s even said the dm10s were better stereo image and clarity

 Better stereo imaging and clarity, but better overall sound??? For me, I'll be looking for realism in the tones and frequencies produced when I get to hear them. ie: does the frequency of a live instrument,closely match that of what the speakers convey. 

Sort a demo. Youll be amazed how real they sound.

 

[Andrewjvt]

can you please contact Avi and tell them all about it? they'll respond instantly.. I'm sure,  if you're right in all that you've said they will change the numbers on heir website in a blink of an eye. Don't ask me why you have to do this because if you put so much energy on this forum to fight miss information I think you should challange manufacturer, not customers. We don't have equipment to measure power amp output, they do. I, personally, do not argue with anyone using Avi specs.. I just have a laugh as it's amusing to what extremes both you and avole ( especially you) go.. the fact is: ( if you don't know) 

I owned electrocompaniet and atc amps, atc 11, atc 19 and atc 40 actives and dm10 sounds better.. 

andrew visited me with his hegel h360 & atc 11 and to him dm10 sounds better

luckylion replaced pmc twenty 22 & roksan pre/ power with dm10 and avi sounds better

I understand your point: Avi presents false power rating numbers on their website 

I say: tell them about it, challange them, not customers. 

There are many more A chap that owns active atc scm50s even said the dm10s were better stereo image and clarity

Is anyone prepared to commit and say the DM10s blow away any other loudspeaker, ever made, without exception?

Please stop with all the weasel words and tip-toe'ing around the issue and the endless pseudo-technical 'niggling' from both sides that goes around & around forever.

Leave it all out on the field (as our yank friends like to say) and let's hear the mighty yawp of AVI fan unto AVI fan, up-and-down the land, proudly asserting that the DM10s are the best loudspeakers that have ever been made and that to merely consider anything else is sheer folly and will bring disaster.

You know you want to. Make Ashley proud of you.

Oh, and Andrew  ... get a pair!  Seeing them listed in your signature will make me believe you mean it.

Thats a totally ridiculous thing to say.

No one has said they are the best in the world. Id rather have scm 100 or 150 active due to the size and scale but look at the cost difference.

And im sorry i cant just cough up £1500 cash just to please you. Now anyone who recomends a product they dont own or is better than what they have have to buy it to prove it. Wow man

 

[avole]

Because you can't go to your local hifi shop and listen to them, let alone compare with the technologically superior Dynaudios and other active speakers. You have to take the leap of faith, because that is what the marketing and propaganda is all about.

If you could compare with other speakers, active, passive, powered or wireless, AVI might suddenly be in a position where they can't compete, and, worse, the hype is shown for what it is.

 

[chebby]

 

[lpv]

Because you can't go to your local hifi shop and listen to them, let alone compare with the technologically superior Dynaudios and other active speakers. You have to take the leap of faith, because that is what the marketing and propaganda is all about.

If you could compare with other speakers, active, passive, powered or wireless, AVI might suddenly be in a position where they can't compete, and, worse, the hype is shown for what it is.

wise words *wacko*