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AVI DM

BigH

New member
Dec 29, 2012
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Andrewjvt said:
Does AVI use scanspek drivers in the latest Dm5 and 10, or sdo they now make their own?
Neither.

They used to have an option of Scanspeak tweeters on the 9s but now the new tweeter is better and cheaper many people have upgraded from the Scanspeak to the new tweeter. They have the drivers made for them, I can't remember the name of the producer. Scanspeak are expensive as Danish. To give you an idea the Scanspeak tweeters were £150 a pair, the new ones are £50.

You might better off asking on their forum, you will get more reliable direct answers there.
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
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18,795
I've messaged Ashley James on the AVI forum and this is the reply:

"So far all fine.

Scanspeak was sold to a massive Chinese headphone company, so some engineers left and operate in Denmark in a Lab owned by SB. They designed both DM drivers but the tweeters we SB originals. Mart measured some nasties in the tweeters and they redesigned them to remove it. Now it's a standard in their OEM range.

The DM5 driver is a standard OEM modified to suit our box and for 4 Ohm Amps.

The DM10 driver was a Scanspeak design originally, but SB's Indonesian Lab used the chassis only to design the very special job we use. It costs about double the going rate for hi end OEM drivers, but it works as you know.

SB design and make speakers for Bentley. They're enormous and make 8.5 million drivers a year and 1.5 million pairs of speakers. They have a huge R & D facility and unusually make all their own cones, voice coils, spiders, rubber surrounds, metal work, chassis, everything. Very few are in their league.

They even manufacture their own special paper pulps.

Ash"
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,233
5
19,195
steve_1979 said:
The DM5 5.25" mid/bass driver is a standard 'off the shelf' Sinar Baja unit. Martin Grinrod says that it's the best 5.25" driver he's ever come across and he's tested hundreds of them over the years.
It's good to get an independent point of view.

steve_1979 said:
I'll sent Ashley a PM to double check that what I've said is correct.
I don't think you put a foot wrong back there (excellent pitch), but it's good to check.
 

Vladimir

New member
Dec 26, 2013
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John Dunlavy was criticized for using cheap off the shelf Scanspeak drivers for his best speakers, but he didn't care. The final result is what matters.

Same applies for AVI. If the result is good, then I wouldn't care who or where it's made. Obviously the work conditions at SB are not as good as Scanspeak, thus the cheaper price.
 

lpv

New member
Mar 14, 2013
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steve_1979 said:
Andrewjvt said:
Does AVI use scanspek drivers in the latest Dm5 and 10, or do they now make their own?
AVI have used both ScanSpeak and Sinar Baja drivers in the past on their ADM9, ADM40 and Neutron speakers but as far as I'm aware all current AVI speakers have Sinar Baja drivers.

The DM10 uses a special custom designed Sinar Baja mid/bass driver that can reach upto 4kHz before going into cone breakup. They're specially made for the the DM10 speakers and AVI has to buy them in large batches because they're much more expensive than any of the other 6.5" drivers that Sinar Baja make. Sinar Baja thinks that they'd struggle to sell them to other speaker companies because they cost so much.

Both the DM5 and DM10 speakers use the same tweeters as each other. They're a tweaked version of an existing Sinar Baja tweeter which has been custom modified to suit AVI designer Martin Grinrod's own specification. Sinar Baja have found that this tweaked version is better than the original design and have since made this tweaked version available to anyone as standard 'off the shelf' item. As BigH has already said, AVI have found this new Sinar Baja tweeter to be better than the top of the range ScanSpeak tweeter dispite only costinging a fraction of the price.

The DM5 5.25" mid/bass driver is a standard 'off the shelf' Sinar Baja unit. Martin Grinrod says that it's the best 5.25" driver he's ever come across and he's tested hundreds of them over the years.

I'm a regular on the AVI forum and this is how Ashley James has described them. I'm paraphrasing from memory so I apologise in advance for any mistakes. I'll sent Ashley a PM to double check that what I've said is correct.
thanks for the info.. I've been reading AVI forum past few days and these speakers are either that good or some exaggerated statements are made.. I generally liked what ADM9's can do and now tempted to have a good listen to both DM5 and DM10.
 

Vladimir

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Dec 26, 2013
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steve_1979 said:
ScanSpeak aren't cheap.
To the 'high end' crowd that spends hundreds of pounds per inch of speaker cable Dunlavy's choice of drivers felt cheap. ;)
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
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18,795
Vladimir said:
John Dunlavy was criticized for using cheap off the shelf Scanspeak drivers for his best speakers, but he didn't care. The final result is what matters.

Same applies for AVI. If the result is good, then I wouldn't care who or where it's made. Obviously the work conditions at SB are not as good as Scanspeak, thus the cheaper price.
ScanSpeak aren't cheap. They're some of the best and most expensive in the world. Sinar Baja bettered them by poaching Scanspeak engineers and then made further improvements with prompting from Martin Grindrod.

Genelec also use Sinar Baja for their drivers too but I think they tend to use the cheaper ones. Most of what they make is price sensitive so you'd expect it. Most active speakers are built down to a price because the market is so tight. The very expensive Genelecs might be different for all I know.
 

Vladimir

New member
Dec 26, 2013
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From what I know, SB Acoustics, is owned by Sinar Baja Electric (based in Indonesia). In 2006 SB Electric founded Danesian Audio in Herning, Denmark (just 10 mins from Videbaek) to develop and design drivers (Ulrik Schmidt and Frank Nielsen both live in Denmark).

The turmoil caused by Vifa, ScanSpeak and Peerless all being bought under one umbrella (DST/Tympany) and then later the break up/dissolution of Tympamy/DST etc caused a lot of ex-Vifa, ex ScanSpeak, and ex Peerless engineers moving on to greener pastures. Wavecor (based in Guangzhou, China) was another company formed from this turmoil (by Allan Isaksen, Per Madsen and others).

It is surprising that a small country like Denmark has so many well known audio products from companies as diverse as Bang & Olufsen, Brüel & Kjær, Oticon, Widex, AM3D etc. not to forget all of Mr. Skanning's creations (Dynaudio, etc..).
Thank you! The SB Acoustics 6.5" struck me as an identical twin of the Vifa NE drivers and this confirms my thinking.
Source
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
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18,795
Vladimir said:
To the 'high end' crowd that spends hundreds of pounds per inch of speaker cable Dunlavy's choice of drivers felt cheap. ;)
It's ironic isn't it. :D

When you look at how cheap most speaker drivers are it seems odd that people insist on wasting money on audiophool cables costing tens of pounds per metre.
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
7
18,795
"We buy direct with Sinar Baja Electric in Indonesia. SB Acoustics Ltd is the name they give to their wholly owned distributors around the World.

All the Danish Speaker companies are Chinese now, though as SB has a lab there, so the others have sales offices.

Scanspeak have a lab there too, but are owned by an enormous Chinese headphone company that employs 10,000 and makes most of the headphones the big Germans don't.

The important point is that although drivers from the big boys like SB have been improving steadily year by year, audible distortions still exist in the crossover region because the crap from passive crossovers masks them. AVI's active crossovers have no sound at all, so they reveal driver issues that no one else has heard. We had to measure these nasties and prove to SB that they existed. Once we had, they designed special drivers for us which were clean to an octave above the crossover point.

This is how we've been able to get so close to the best headphones.

Ash"
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
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steve_1979 said:
"We buy direct with Sinar Baja Electric in Indonesia. SB Acoustics Ltd is the name they give to their wholly owned distributors around the World.

All the Danish Speaker companies are Chinese now, though as SB has a lab there, so the others have sales offices.

Scanspeak have a lab there too, but are owned by an enormous Chinese headphone company that employs 10,000 and makes most of the headphones the big Germans don't.

The important point is that although drivers from the big boys like SB have been improving steadily year by year, audible distortions still exist in the crossover region because the crap from passive crossovers masks them. AVI's active crossovers have no sound at all, so they reveal driver issues that no one else has heard. We had to measure these nasties and prove to SB that they existed. Once we had, they designed special drivers for us which were clean to an octave above the crossover point.

This is how we've been able to get so close to the best headphones.

Ash"
How large is your room and do you have pictures of your set up?
 

Andrewjvt

New member
Jun 18, 2014
99
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steve_1979 said:
Andrewjvt said:
How large is your room and do you have pictures of your set up?
It's an irregular shaped 17.5' x 11' room with a 10' high ceiling. It's in an old victorian house with thick brick walls so there's plenty of isolation for when I want to turn it up loud.

I usually have them setup for near-field use at a computer desk but I've also tried them in a more conventional mid-field setup sitting about 10' away from the speakers on the other sode of the room. They have no problem fill the space.

I don't have any photos of the current DM10 system but here's an old picture of my desk when I had the DM5 speakers setup. I also have a new desk and chair which is lower than the one in the photo so that the speakers are now at the correct height.

And those aren't cuddly toys BTW. ;) It's high tech acoustic sound treatment to stop early reflections bouncing off the desk and top of the subwoofer. They help improve the stereo image a little bit,
I believe you.
Are dms near field monitors?
 

steve_1979

Well-known member
Jul 14, 2010
231
7
18,795
Andrewjvt said:
I believe you. Are dms near field monitors?
No they're really supposed to be mid-field speakers and that's how most people use them.

I use mine in a near-field setup use because I spend a lot of time at the computer but they work equally well positioned either way IMO.
 

lindsayt

New member
Apr 8, 2011
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Steve, how do you feel about the orchestra being only 4 feet wide in your system?

Or rock bands fitting into a 4 foot wide stage on your system?

Plus the subwoofer being out of phase with your main speakers, especially when listening near field?
 

lpv

New member
Mar 14, 2013
47
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0
MUSICRAFT said:
steve_1979 said:
when combined with a good quality subwoofer
Hi steve_1979

I love sub bass. I wouldn't use a system without a sub or two.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft
what a bizzare comment.. lol.. no, looks more like an advert.. ok, time to make coffee
 

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