AVI ADM9s: breakthrough or too much hype?

[Phileas]

They are also a bit dynamically compressed, which doesn't help.

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong.

 

[Craig M.]

Well, I listened, and I'm still undecided. The ADM9s (no, not the latest version; Bartletts was offloading older ones at a reduced price) had quite exceptional clarity but I failed to be moved by them. God knows what was going on. It could have been the day, my mood, the space, who knows. I just didn't feel swayed by the music. It felt more like an operation. Perhaps some would just call all of this distortion.

SB

I read this and thought two things. I've read a few comments from ADM owners who demoed them at Bartletts and found they were good but not great, but then tried them at home and were blown away. They were suggesting that the acoustics of Bartletts demo room didn't flatter them. Maybe you could try a home dem from Bartletts?

It's possible that such an undistorted sound is not for you and never will be, or maybe it would be for you but they are proving a culture shock because of what you are used to and you need a period to adjust to the sound.

 

[hoopsontoast]

People in 'hyped up speakers sound just OK' shocker.

Gets told they are wrong :rofl:

 

[Craig M.]

I've been trying to keep away from this thread, purely because I don't have an opinion on active SQ, not heard and don't have any real ambition to go out and hear any TBH. Like any hi-fi, some love them while others don't. That's totally understandable. Swings and roundabout, I suppose.

The one thing that puzzles me, and I could be totally and utterly wrong, is I've heard (or read is more accurate) over the past year or two statements to the tune of "AVIs are better than any system below 10k". To me that is a very over-lofty claim for a £1200 active. Surely if that was the case then more people would be buying active? As I said, could be totally wrong, and these active are that good, and if so then I applaud the technicians and engineers who created the active.

A little clarity would be good.

I think you have to understand the ethos of AVI to grasp the roots of such a claim, I'd suggest reading some of the articles at HDD Audio for an insight into this - you never know, you might learn something. I find it strange that someone would spend as much time as you do pontificating about various things hifi, but isn't prepared to satisfy a basic curiosity by listening to some.

You're final sentence is quite funny considering the subject matter. 🙂

 

[Craig M.]

People in 'hyped up speakers sound just OK' shocker.

Gets told they are wrong :rofl:

Really? I think you need to learn to read.

I heard your system at Scalford. :rofl:

 

[hoopsontoast]

People in 'hyped up speakers sound just OK' shocker.

Gets told they are wrong :rofl:

Really? I think you need to learn to read.

I heard your system at Scalford. :rofl:

Which system did you hear? 🙂

 

[Craig M.]

Did you take more than one? It had your old Kolts, can't remember the rest. I came in towards the end of the day with my cousin (he owns ADMs), you played The Stone Roses. Scalford was a real eye opener.

 

[hoopsontoast]

Did you take more than one? It had your old Kolts, can't remember the rest. I came in towards the end of the day with my cousin (he owns ADMs), you played The Stone Roses. Scalford was a real eye opener.

I have been every year with a different system. This year (2012) I took the kolts, the system was specifically designed to be used in a small 9ft square room at low levels. The whole system was a bargain affair at around £200-£300 in total. It was a Sony TA-F670ES and Philips CD-850.

Scalford is a cracking event, Thats why I would urge anyone to go just so that you can hear such a variety of kit that you could not hear elsewhere on just one day.

I can imagine that the Sone Roses did not sound that great, a good recording it is not.

 

[Craig M.]

Oh I dunno, sounds ok on my cousins ADMs. :rofl:

Room acoustics play a part though, he gets a very suprising bass response - only stuff like Massive Attack could do with a bit more, which is why I suggested a home dem for the op.

 

[char_lotte]

What I really don't understand is why owners get so bent out of shape when the product is critisised.

Seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

 

[plastic penguin]

I've been trying to keep away from this thread, purely because I don't have an opinion on active SQ, not heard and don't have any real ambition to go out and hear any TBH. Like any hi-fi, some love them while others don't. That's totally understandable. Swings and roundabout, I suppose.

The one thing that puzzles me, and I could be totally and utterly wrong, is I've heard (or read is more accurate) over the past year or two statements to the tune of "AVIs are better than any system below 10k". To me that is a very over-lofty claim for a £1200 active. Surely if that was the case then more people would be buying active? As I said, could be totally wrong, and these active are that good, and if so then I applaud the technicians and engineers who created the active.

A little clarity would be good.

I'd suggest reading some of the articles at HDD Audio for an insight into this - I find it strange that someone would spend as much time as you do pontificating about various things hifi, but isn't prepared to satisfy a basic curiosity by listening to some.

You're final sentence is quite funny considering the subject matter. 🙂

Yes you're right, I do spend a lot of time pontif...pontif... expressing an opinion, what else are you suppose to do on a hi-fi forum, in a hi-fi section? Give a weather update? discuss the mating rituals of exotic insects, perhaps?

These are only reasonable questions given the thread.

If you enjoy pontificating, why not give a homily why you're at it? 🙂

 

[hoopsontoast]

What I really don't understand is why owners get so bent out of shape when the product is critisised. Seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

Exactly

 

[plastic penguin]

What I really don't understand is why owners get so bent out of shape when the product is critisised. Seems absolutely ridiculous to me.

Exactly

+2.

All I want is to understand the pros and cons, and loyalty of the 'active brigade'. Why are they are so defensive? It is almost, dread to say it, like a 'them' and 'us' scenario... the truth, however, should be like any other format, minus the vitriolic remarks. It's just hi-fi.

 

[Craig M.]

Yes you're right, I do spend a lot of time pontif...pontif... expressing an opinion, what else are you suppose to do on a hi-fi forum, in a hi-fi section? Give a weather update? discuss the mating rituals of exotic insects, perhaps?

These are only reasonable questions given the thread.

If you enjoy pontificating, why not give a homily why you're at it? 🙂

There would be no point, anything I say would be pretty meaningless given neither of us have any idea what sort of sound I like relative to you, or what any descriptive terms would mean to me relative to you. I think it would be fair to say I visit this forum for different reasons to you - I don't view 'hifi' itself as a hobby. If you are genuinely curious about actives, listen to some - preferrably in your own room.

 

[Alec]

Yes you're right, I do spend a lot of time pontif...pontif... expressing an opinion, what else are you suppose to do on a hi-fi forum, in a hi-fi section? Give a weather update? discuss the mating rituals of exotic insects, perhaps?

These are only reasonable questions given the thread.

If you enjoy pontificating, why not give a homily why you're at it? 🙂

There would be no point, anything I say would be pretty meaningless given neither of us have any idea what sort of sound I like relative to you, or what any descriptive terms would mean to me relative to you. I think it would be fair to say I visit this forum for different reasons to you - I don't view 'hifi' itself as a hobby. If you are genuinely curious about actives, listen to some - preferrably in your own room.

:clap:

EDIT - Hmmm. Had to type that smiley in, clicking on it didn't work.

 

[Overdose]

All I want is to understand the pros and cons............

Well you won't find the definitive answer on this forum.

I would suggest popping to a pro audio outlet and trying to get a home demo of some actives if you are genuinely interested in hearing what actives are all about. They are not for everyone and will potentially be a bit of a shock to anyone who has only ever experienced hi-fi equipment. Whilst I'm sure that all monitors have there own traits , strengths and weaknesses, they will all largely give an all too honest portrayal of the music as recorded, without frills and intended colouration. I prefer this, as I can add whatever EQ I like, if needed.

The major downsides for some, are in the looks department and there's not a lot you can do about that.

If you want any recommendations for speakers to listen to, try looking at recording studio equipment listings to see which are favoured.

 

[hoopsontoast]

All I want is to understand the pros and cons............

Well you won't find the definitive answer on this forum.

I would suggest popping to a pro audio outlet and trying to get a home demo of some actives if you are genuinely interested in hearing what actives are all about. They are not for everyone and will potentially be a bit of a shock to anyone who has only ever experienced hi-fi equipment. Whilst I'm sure that all monitors have there own traits , strengths and weaknesses, they will all largely give an all too honest portrayal of the music as recorded, without frills and intended colouration. I prefer this, as I can add whatever EQ I like, if needed.

The major downsides for some, are in the looks department and there's not a lot you can do about that.

If you want any recommendations for speakers to listen to, try looking at recording studio equipment listings to see which are favoured.

And again, Studios have a different set of needs to hifi.

Studio's use active monitors, usually on a desk as they are all-in-one, compact, generally designed for near-field monitoring and usually have high SPL ability.

Also a lot of studio's use popular speakers as a reference, like the Yamaha NS-10, which are not great speakers but used a lot as everyone has them so for a travelling engineer or the musician its a common point of reference. Just like the BBC using LS3/5a's as a common point of reference for speech in broadcast vans and studios.

I really dont see how you can pigeon hole speakers into active Vs passive and having a common sound/presentation, or what you are saying a lack of.

At the end of the day, these are a lifestyle product that allows you to remove all those ugly boxes and replace them with extra cables. Now thats fine if thats what you want but its not a definative soloution. ALL speakers are a compromise.

You just pick the particular trade offs that you can do without.

 

[lindsayt]

People in 'hyped up speakers sound just OK' shocker.

Gets told they are wrong :rofl:

Really? I think you need to learn to read.

I heard your system at Scalford. :rofl:

Now go onto the Wigwam forum and make a similar post in the same sort of context and see what reaction you get.

I think that this post is completely against the spirit of the Scalford show.

Before criticising someone else's system, let's see you take a system there and try to get a good sound in either an unfurnished conference room with dining chair seating or an empty bedroom with dining chair seating.

Given enough time I would take a sofa and four large Ikea Expedits stuffed full of vinyl down to Scalford in an effort to make the room less echoey and to get listeners ears at the right height for my speakers. Back in the land of reality, that's not going to happen. So I hope that any visitors to my room make allowances for the conditions, instead of using them as stick for trying to win an argument on an unrelated hi-fi forum topic 6 months down the road.

 

[lindsayt]

They are also a bit dynamically compressed, which doesn't help.

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong.

That all depends what speakers we're comparing the AVI ADM 9's against. If we're comparing them to some other coned and domed, inefficient 2 way ported speaker then the AVI's are fine for dynamics. If we're comparing them to highly efficient monster speakers then that's another story.

 

[hoopsontoast]

People in 'hyped up speakers sound just OK' shocker.

Gets told they are wrong :rofl:

Really? I think you need to learn to read.

I heard your system at Scalford. :rofl:

Now go onto the Wigwam forum and make a similar post in the same sort of context and see what reaction you get.

I think that this post is completely against the spirit of the Scalford show.

Before criticising someone else's system, let's see you take a system there and try to get a good sound in either an unfurnished conference room with dining chair seating or an empty bedroom with dining chair seating.

Given enough time I would take a sofa and four large Ikea Expedits stuffed full of vinyl down to Scalford in an effort to make the room less echoey and to get listeners ears at the right height for my speakers. Back in the land of reality, that's not going to happen. So I hope that any visitors to my room make allowances for the conditions, instead of using them as stick for trying to win an argument on an unrelated hi-fi forum topic 6 months down the road.

He is entitled to his wrong opinion 😉

On a serious note, I dont mind that he did not like my system. As I mentioned it was assembled to do a specific job.

I would be the first to admit that a sealed mini-monitor with a 4" cone will be dynamically limited. Its physics.

The speaker was designed to do a job, and that was speech reproduction and it also happens to just sound very good IMO.

It would have been interesting if we could have had a room with something like the little AVI's, as a nice comparison to the more esoteric equipment on demo.

We are all different. If we all liked the same stuff then it would be boring.

But I would not recommend a particular peice of equipment as a definitive answer to anyones needs. I (as I try to do) is steer people maybe in a direction to hear what they might not originally considered or try something different.

IMO, IME and YMMV etc etc.

 

[Craig M.]

People in 'hyped up speakers sound just OK' shocker.

Gets told they are wrong :rofl:

Really? I think you need to learn to read.

I heard your system at Scalford. :rofl:

Now go onto the Wigwam forum and make a similar post in the same sort of context and see what reaction you get.

That post was made in the same sort of spirit as the one I quoted. And given the kind of stuff that gets posted on the wam, I doubt it'd raise much more than an eyebrow.

 

[Overdose]

All I want is to understand the pros and cons............

Well you won't find the definitive answer on this forum.

I would suggest popping to a pro audio outlet and trying to get a home demo of some actives if you are genuinely interested in hearing what actives are all about. They are not for everyone and will potentially be a bit of a shock to anyone who has only ever experienced hi-fi equipment. Whilst I'm sure that all monitors have there own traits , strengths and weaknesses, they will all largely give an all too honest portrayal of the music as recorded, without frills and intended colouration. I prefer this, as I can add whatever EQ I like, if needed.

The major downsides for some, are in the looks department and there's not a lot you can do about that.

If you want any recommendations for speakers to listen to, try looking at recording studio equipment listings to see which are favoured.

And again, Studios have a different set of needs to hifi.

Studio's use active monitors, usually on a desk as they are all-in-one, compact, generally designed for near-field monitoring and usually have high SPL ability.

Also a lot of studio's use popular speakers as a reference, like the Yamaha NS-10, which are not great speakers but used a lot as everyone has them so for a travelling engineer or the musician its a common point of reference. Just like the BBC using LS3/5a's as a common point of reference for speech in broadcast vans and studios.

I really dont see how you can pigeon hole speakers into active Vs passive and having a common sound/presentation, or what you are saying a lack of.

At the end of the day, these are a lifestyle product that allows you to remove all those ugly boxes and replace them with extra cables. Now thats fine if thats what you want but its not a definative soloution. ALL speakers are a compromise.

You just pick the particular trade offs that you can do without.

Studios do indeed have different needs to hifi and that is exactly why PP should listen to studio monitors if he is to understand the differences between the two.

The BBC actually use Dynaudio now in the main it would seem.

Regarding pigeon holing actives/passives, monitors are designed to be neutral and free of colouration, so they are indeed pigeon holed by design, not so for hifi, the speakers of which can have all manner of built in colouration.

Active speakers and more specifically, monitors, are no more a lifestyle choice than any other sound system equipment. They are a product that will reproduce the music as accurately as possible by design and that is why I chose mine, others choose their systems depending on their own choice of colouration.

Your post did little to help PP understand anything other than your own prejudices and lack of knowledge.

 

[hoopsontoast]

They are also a bit dynamically compressed, which doesn't help.

Sorry, but this is just plain wrong.

This is what I was talking about. Someone has a different view, the speakers sounded OK (myself included) and gets told they are wrong as it does not level with their opinion.

 

[Craig M.]

He is entitled to his wrong opinion 😉

🙂 Why, thankyou.

I am actually puzzled by your reaction to the ADMs though, I know from reading posts you've made that you appreciate SCM19s, I've compared them with the ADMs back to back in my livingroom and the over-riding impression both I and my cousin had was how similar the sound was. I'd have thought the ADMs would be right up your street.

Anyways, I apologise for my earlier post. It was a childish reaction.

 

[Craig M.]

. Crossed posts.