Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

[chebby]

Yeah, all seems a bit like 'James Pringle' cashmere jumpers...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/9612939.stm

"Designed in Scotland" (but made by North Korean labour gangs in Mongolian factories).

 

[busb]

I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

You are absolutely correct - several sources say the same. The term may have come from builders called Jerry Brothers from well before WW1. I sit corrected!

 

[plastic penguin]

I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

Yup, before the first and second world wars the Germans mass produced metal containers or Wehrmacht-Einheitskanister (may have mis-spelt) were stockpiled. They were cheap to produce and any cheap metal products, such as food tins or containers for personal hygiene, were coined jerrycans. As far as I'm aware, there's no direct link to the German people.

 

[busb]

I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

Indeed not:

"
Jerry builtMeaning
Built in a makeshift and insubstantial manner.
Origin
The phrase has been around since at least 1869, when it was defined in the Lonsdale Glossary:

"Jerry-built, slightly, or unsubstantially built."

By 1901, the term began to be used figuratively - a sure sign of acceptance into the general language; for example, The Daily Chronicle, in August that year printed this opinion:

"In an age of jerry-built books it is refreshing to come across a volume that has taken forty years to compile."

The derivation is unknown. What we do know is that the term has nothing to do with the UK slang term for German - Jerry/Gerry. This is of WWI origin and the citations above pre-date that. As always when a phrase's origin is unknown people like to guess, so here goes. It is possible that the term derives from the slang term jerrycummumble or jerrymumble. This was defined in the 1811 version of Francis Grose's Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue:

"JERRYCUMMUMBLE. To shake, towzle, or tumble about."

Some other guesses, although none of them appear to have any substantiating evidence, place the origin as:

- The cheap, flimsy constructs of Jerry Brothers - a Liverpool building firm. (Note: I've not been able to confirm the existence of this company).

- The walls of Jericho which, as everyone knows 'came tumbling down'.

- The Romany word for excrement - 'gerry'.

- A corruption of 'jury-rig' - although if that were the case we might expect to see some printed reference to 'jury-built' or 'jerry-rigged'. The former is unknown and citations of the latter all date from the 20th century."

Chris

My parents taught me to believe everything they said!

Large bold type! You shouldn't have - I'm not worthy!

 

[shropshire lad]

I have just looked at the boxes of my 2005 dated Audiolab 8000S and 8000P amplifiers and they both have a sticker saying "Made in China" on them . I haven't looked at the amplifiers themselves . This may not have any bearing on what happens today but at least they used to acknowledge the country of origin in the past .

 

[tino]

To return to the OP I found this on a government website:

Country of origin markings

Generally speaking, there is no requirement in the law of the United Kingdom or the European Union for goods to bear marks indicating their origin, nor is there anything to prevent voluntary origin marking where traders wish to do so. However, where such marks are applied to goods, the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (TDA) effectively requires these marks to be accurate. Subject to certain defences, this Act makes it a criminal offence for a person, in the course of business, to apply false or misleading trade descriptions to goods. The term "trade description" includes, amongst others, an indication, however given, of the "place of manufacture, production, processing or reconditioning" of the goods.

So I think they can put "Made in China" if they like or leave it off if they like. Having their UK address is fine unless it said "Made in the UK" when it wasn't.

Chris

Which begs the question why don't they put something like "Registered office: Huntingdon, PE29 6XE, UK" to make it clear. Otherwise it might confuse buyers into thinking they are buying a UK product? Another reason is that it might be in keeping in the tradition of older Quad products used to have the address on the back when they were actually made in the UK.

 

[Covenanter]

Large bold type! You shouldn't have - I'm not worthy!

Don't worry I didn't, it was copied straight from a website. :rofl:

Chris

 

[plastic penguin]

I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

Yup, before the first and second world wars the Germans mass produced metal containers or Wehrmacht-Einheitskanister (may have mis-spelt) were stockpiled. They were cheap to produce and any cheap metal products, such as food tins or containers for personal hygiene, were coined jerrycans. As far as I'm aware, there's no direct link to the German people.

Take the story a bit further. Legend has it the name was taken from the inventor of metal cans Gerald Ringpull. He later became a multi Billionaire, and owned a large mews in New York where full production of small metal storage units started life. It quickly gained a formidable reputation, later known, affectionately, as 'Tin Can Alley'.

 

[eggontoast]

To return to the OP I found this on a government website:

Country of origin markings

Generally speaking, there is no requirement in the law of the United Kingdom or the European Union for goods to bear marks indicating their origin, nor is there anything to prevent voluntary origin marking where traders wish to do so. However, where such marks are applied to goods, the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (TDA) effectively requires these marks to be accurate. Subject to certain defences, this Act makes it a criminal offence for a person, in the course of business, to apply false or misleading trade descriptions to goods. The term "trade description" includes, amongst others, an indication, however given, of the "place of manufacture, production, processing or reconditioning" of the goods.

So I think they can put "Made in China" if they like or leave it off if they like. Having their UK address is fine unless it said "Made in the UK" when it wasn't.

Chris

Interesting, I would interpret what they have done as sailing close to the wind personally. It serves no purpose to put Huntingdon, England on there other than to deceive. If you were to ask 100 people on the street "where is this made" I would bet at least 85% would say England, that would then come under the misleading part of the above text.

 

[busb]

To return to the OP I found this on a government website:

Country of origin markings

Generally speaking, there is no requirement in the law of the United Kingdom or the European Union for goods to bear marks indicating their origin, nor is there anything to prevent voluntary origin marking where traders wish to do so. However, where such marks are applied to goods, the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (TDA) effectively requires these marks to be accurate. Subject to certain defences, this Act makes it a criminal offence for a person, in the course of business, to apply false or misleading trade descriptions to goods. The term "trade description" includes, amongst others, an indication, however given, of the "place of manufacture, production, processing or reconditioning" of the goods.

So I think they can put "Made in China" if they like or leave it off if they like. Having their UK address is fine unless it said "Made in the UK" when it wasn't.

Chris

Interesting, I would interpret what they have done as sailing close to the wind personally. It serves no purpose to put Huntingdon, England on there other than to deceive. If you were to ask 100 people on the street "where is this made" I would bet at least 85% would say England, that would then come under the misleading part of the above text.

I think the word disingenuous sums it up. I assume everything is made in China until I know otherwise! As a general observation, I'd say the reliability of electronic goods has increased dramatically over the last 30yrs.

 

[MajorFubar]

Seems obvious to me that they're wanting you to believe the product is UK made and are using deliberately obscure phrasing to prevent themselves from falling foul of the law. Clearly if they felt a label saying "Made in China" held esoteric kudos, then that's what would be on the back.

 

[Richard Allen]

When I make my amplifier I shall put on the back

Parts roughed out in China. Honed and finished in the UK.

No misleading comments there:rofl:

 

[tino]

AMR also do it for their (very expensive) hifi gear that they have made in the far east ... they put either "Design and engineered in Great Britain" or just put "Great Britain" on the back. Even inside their products they sometimes have in big letters "Hand Made" alongside a UK web address ... So it would seem that "Designed in GB" carries some kudos, but "Made in PRC" probably doesn't.

PS ... their stuff is meant to be very good, so the above comment is in no way related to the quality of their products.

 

[Frank Harvey]

While there is a lot of tat that comes out of China, I really don't think it bothers people that much any more. It comes up in conversation very ocassionally, and if anyone asks me, I always tell them that it is made in China - no secret. Other than my projector, my whole AV system is made in China, and if I ever go for any of Ken Kreisel's upcoming speakers, it'll still all be made in China. The differentiation between the tat and what we buy from specialist dealers is that the likes of Audiolab etc are made in their own purpose built facilities where they can can control quality, unlike the tat we see in pound shops etc.

 

[chebby]

Dave, no-one is seriously questioning the quality of Audiolab or any other Chinese brand. The issue is why Audiolab are obscuring their equipment's place of manufacture and the nationality of their company.

You'd think the Chang brothers (IAG owners and founders) would be proud of it.

 

[Frank Harvey]

I don't know Chebby. They're based here, so it follows they'd put their own contact details first and foremost, as if someone buys one of their products that aren't as wise as mst of us on this forum, they're going to look at the back of the product or manual to find contact details in case of any problems. Manuals get lost, so putting it on the product makes sense. Why they don't mention CHina I don't know, but then, not too many products have their place of manufacture on them nowadays.

 

[chebby]

I don't know Chebby. They're based here, so it follows they'd put their own contact details first and foremost, as if someone buys one of their products that aren't as wise as mst of us on this forum, they're going to look at the back of the product or manual to find contact details in case of any problems. Manuals get lost, so putting it on the product makes sense. Why they don't mention CHina I don't know, but then, not too many products have their place of manufacture on them nowadays.

Dave, they are not based here. Their headquarters are in China. A short distance from their factories in Shenzhen. The UK has a regional office in Huntingdon and a UK warehouse in Yorkshire.

 

[Frank Harvey]

That may be, but we deal with Huntingdon

 

[Richard Allen]

The issue is why Audiolab are obscuring their equipment's place of manufacture and the nationality of their company.

I don't think the intention here is to obscure Chebby. Audiolab like Quad, Mission, Wharfedale and Castle are British borne brands. OK, they have Chinese owners. IAG UK is based here and, as a previous post said, you don't have to put the country of origin on to comply but if you do, it has to be factual.

I think the issue is more down to confusion by some customers. The Changs aren't daft and they comply with the law. I seriously doubt that there is any subtifuge going on at all. It would be interesting to see what is on the back of say Wharfedale loudspeakers. Wharfedale, Huntingdon UK maybe???.

what about it David??

 

[chebby]

That may be, but we deal with Huntingdon

Ok, you win. IAG are British then. They have one of their sales and support offices here so they must be. (Note to self, never argue with someone who sells the stuff.)

 

[Frank Harvey]

I think the issue is more down to confusion by some customers. The Changs aren't daft and they comply with the law. I seriously doubt that there is any subtifuge going on at all. It would be interesting to see what is on the back of say Wharfedale loudspeakers. Wharfedale, Huntingdon UK maybe???.

what about it David??

Designed and engineered in England. And, like Quad, lists the Huntingdon address.

Which I suppose is technically correct, as they're not saying they're made in England, but I can see where the confusion would come in there.

Quad has "Quad Electroacoustics" and then the Huntingdon address.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Ok, you win. IAG are British then. They have one of their sales and support offices here so they must be. (Note to self, never argue with someone who sells the stuff.)

There have been many manufacturers who have been bought out over the years by overseas investors, but still run as they were before the take over - still designed in the UK by the same people, still serviced by the same people, and usually with the same manaerial structure as always. Its just that the money is coming from somewhere else.

 

[Richard Allen]

I think the issue is more down to confusion by some customers. The Changs aren't daft and they comply with the law. I seriously doubt that there is any subtifuge going on at all. It would be interesting to see what is on the back of say Wharfedale loudspeakers. Wharfedale, Huntingdon UK maybe???.

what about it David??

Designed and engineered in England.

Mmmmm. So what has been done here then???. I wouldn't have been as brave as that.

 

[pauln]

I have no doubt that the Chinese can make quality products if they want to, the important thing for me is that I want to help the economy of my own country not that of China. I will always favour products made in the UK even if it means paying a premium. It's just difficult these days to find much that is, particularly electronics.

Anyone know what audio companies still manufacture in the UK? Harbeth certainly, Rega have a factory here, Linn? Musical fidelity?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Anyone know what audio companies still manufacture in the UK? Harbeth certainly, Rega have a factory here, Linn? Musical fidelity?

ATC (except the entry level SCM range)

Apollo, Atacama, and Hi-Fi Racks

Bowers & Wilkins 800 series

Cyrus

KEF Reference and Blade

Leema Acoustics

Michell Engineering

Naim Audio

PMC

ProAc

Roksan

Rega

SME

Spendor

And there will be others who will build some of their higher ranges in the UK, like Tannoy and Musical Fidelity

Companies like Bryston, Dynaudio, and Project are built in their country of origin, and not elsewhere.