Audiolab and Country Of Origin markings ?

[eggontoast]

So while looking over my Audiolab m-dac last night I noticed that there are big bold markings for the Audiolab brand name with a reference to the current address of the warehouse in Huntingdon next to it. However there seems to be a distinct lack of markings referring to the Made In China part, I thought that it was now compulsory to mark products with a COO under the trade descriptions act. As it is anyone looking at this particular unit would think they are purchasing a prestigious UK based and manufactured Hi-Fi product which has come straight out of the factory in Huntingdon. Could it be that IAG are trading on Audiolabs past Made in England heritage to boost their sales.

 

[bluedroog]

I’d imagine, although I’m no authority on the subject that the parts may be made in China and assembled in England.

 

[eggontoast]

Not 100% sure but I don't think that this is the case either, I'm pretty sure they come in complete and that Huntingdon is just a warehouse with after sales offices.

 

[chebby]

http://www.whathifi.com/blog/china-behind-the-scenes-at-iag

 

[stevebrock]

Do you like the sound of it?

I wouldn't worry to much a lot of these production facilities in the far east are superior to anything here!

 

[eggontoast]

Do you like the sound of it?

Well TBH I'm not blown away with it yet.

I wouldn't worry to much a lot of these production facilities in the far east are superior to anything here!

And that is a statement born from ?

Whether people like it or not some UK manufactured goods (especially from prestigious old UK brands) can and do demand a higher price than its Asian made counterparts.

I think Chebby's link covers the answer to the question, it should say Made In PRC on the unit.

 

[chebby]

Do you like the sound of it?

I wouldn't worry to much a lot of these production facilities in the far east are superior to anything here!

That's not the issue. It's about clarity regarding where an item is manufactured.

If 'Audiolab, Huntingdon. United Kingdom PE29 6XU' is printed on the back of an item that is made entirely in China (with no mention of China whatsoever), then - understandably - it could mislead.

Yes, it doesn't actually say "Made in Huntingdon", so it's not a lie. It does suggest to me though that they don't want it's true manufacturing origins known from a look at the back of the equipment.

 

[busb]

I’d imagine, although I’m no authority on the subject that the parts may be made in China and assembled in England.

That applies to Naim, not audiolab. Something like the M-DAC is shipped boxed from China then distributed to dealers, quite possibly without going anywhere near Huntingdon. Companies such as Quad & audiolab are shells where even design is often contracted out to well-repected people like John Westlake in the case of certain CDPs & the M-DAC. I've just checked the box - no CofO.

CofO can be a very grey area even with food! Cheese being a case in point - shipped in bulk from abroad then packed here in Blighty but marked as being "produced" here. In the globalised economy, many products are assembled from imported parts from raw materials from somewhere else that may have been recycled form heaven knows where!

The current global model maybe unsustainable to the point that it fractures down to producing stuff locally again. Doing so is a balance between globalised economies of scale on one hand & not transporting coals to Newcastle on the other. Societies may have to sacrifice cheap goods for the sake of local employment.

 

[bluedroog]

People tend to get worried about the standard of production in China but this is often unfounded. China are fantastic producers at most price points, they make plenty of sub-standard tat at the kind of prices others can’t compete with but they also have very able production facilities at mid and high-end price points too. They’ll make pretty much anything at a great price to standard ratio.

 

[stevebrock]

Sorry I was maybe thinking that the OP was questioning the quality of far east products.

I should of read the post properly, sadly not much is made here now in this country!

 

[chebby]

China are fantastic producers at most price points..

Then why aren't IAG (Chinese owned) happy to print 'Made In China' on the back of their Chinese manufactured products?

The back of my iPhone (for instance) makes it quite clear where it was designed and where it was assembled.

Cambridge Audio also make it clear that their kit is designed in England and made in China.

 

[Covenanter]

The current global model maybe unsustainable to the point that it fractures down to producing stuff locally again. Doing so is a balance between globalised economies of scale on one hand & not transporting coals to Newcastle on the other. Societies may have to sacrifice cheap goods for the sake of local employment.

In the 19th century Cobden wrote "... [should] a country be found whose cottons and woolens shall be cheaper than those of England and the rest of the world then to that spot ... shall all the traders of the earth flock; and no human power, no fleets or armies. will prevent Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds from sharing the fate of their once proud predecessors in Holland, Italy and Phoenicia ...". He was right and the textile industry is no longer located in Britain and what he said applies in the same way to every industry and we in this country would do best to realise that the world changes and we need to change with it.

Chris

 

[Richard Allen]

I’d imagine, although I’m no authority on the subject that the parts may be made in China and assembled in England.

That applies to Naim, not audiolab. Something like the M-DAC is shipped boxed from China then distributed to dealers, quite possibly without going anywhere near Huntingdon. Companies such as Quad & audiolab are shells where even design is often contracted out to well-repected people like John Westlake in the case of certain CDPs & the M-DAC. I've just checked the box - no CofO.

CofO can be a very grey area even with food! Cheese being a case in point - shipped in bulk from abroad then packed here in Blighty but marked as being "produced" here. In the globalised economy, many products are assembled from imported parts from raw materials from somewhere else that may have been recycled form heaven knows where!

The current global model maybe unsustainable to the point that it fractures down to producing stuff locally again. Doing so is a balance between globalised economies of scale on one hand & not transporting coals to Newcastle on the other. Societies may have to sacrifice cheap goods for the sake of local employment.

I wish more people would produce locally, that is 'in the Uk'. That's the way it used to be. Most of my customers like the fact that it is home grown, that is to say at least 55% of it.

 

[TheHomeCinemaCentre]

Sorry I was maybe thinking that the OP was questioning the quality of far east products.

I should of read the post properly, sadly not much is made here now in this country!

The UK actually has quite a lot of manufacturing and certainly over the last 50 years or so there has not been a significant drop off in output. Some sectors have serious reductions others growth. The numbers employed have reduced and these redundancies are often associated with a decline but if anything we have a strong output and this is key to our exports.

Hi-Fi is slighlty different and many brands have moved production overseas to reduce costs but this is a model of ten years ago and if anything the evolution of Chinese factories will see these prices rise. The advantage of cheap production is also far less now as most firms are using it.

Anyway back to the hi-fi .

 

[eggontoast]

I’d imagine, although I’m no authority on the subject that the parts may be made in China and assembled in England.

That applies to Naim, not audiolab. Something like the M-DAC is shipped boxed from China then distributed to dealers, quite possibly without going anywhere near Huntingdon. Companies such as Quad & audiolab are shells where even design is often contracted out to well-repected people like John Westlake in the case of certain CDPs & the M-DAC. I've just checked the box - no CofO.

CofO can be a very grey area even with food! Cheese being a case in point - shipped in bulk from abroad then packed here in Blighty but marked as being "produced" here. In the globalised economy, many products are assembled from imported parts from raw materials from somewhere else that may have been recycled form heaven knows where!

The current global model maybe unsustainable to the point that it fractures down to producing stuff locally again. Doing so is a balance between globalised economies of scale on one hand & not transporting coals to Newcastle on the other. Societies may have to sacrifice cheap goods for the sake of local employment.

I wish more people would produce locally, that is 'in the Uk'. That's the way it used to be. Most of my customers like the fact that it is home grown, that is to say at least 55% of it.

Maybe so but unfortunately when it comes to paying extra for UK made product they tend not to be so keen.

 

[busb]

The current global model maybe unsustainable to the point that it fractures down to producing stuff locally again. Doing so is a balance between globalised economies of scale on one hand & not transporting coals to Newcastle on the other. Societies may have to sacrifice cheap goods for the sake of local employment.

In the 19th century Cobden wrote "... [should] a country be found whose cottons and woolens shall be cheaper than those of England and the rest of the world then to that spot ... shall all the traders of the earth flock; and no human power, no fleets or armies. will prevent Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds from sharing the fate of their once proud predecessors in Holland, Italy and Phoenicia ...". He was right and the textile industry is no longer located in Britain and what he said applies in the same way to every industry and we in this country would do best to realise that the world changes and we need to change with it.

Chris

That's the commerce-centric view of business that has a great deal of inertia behind it. The world in changing to the point us "little people" are beginning to not only be heard but have collectively more power than many think. Most people don't give a fig where stuff they buy is made but there comes a point when they can't afford even cheap goods, they may just start to care where it's made if it means retaining their means earning money.

On the otherhand, you maybe right, & the 1st world ceases to exist & globalisation equalises pay, healthcare, standards of living, where polution occurs, car ownership etc. Will companies be so eager to move parts of their business overseas if pay began to equalise? It's a very dynamic world we live in & very difficult to predict.

 

[bluedroog]

China are fantastic producers at most price points..

Then why aren't IAG (Chinese owned) happy to print 'Made In China' on the back of their Chinese manufactured products?

The back of my iPhone (for instance) makes it quite clear where it was designed and where it was assembled.

Cambridge Audio also make it clear that their kit is designed in England and made in China.

Because people still have a bias against products made there. I suppose this is because they produce the majority of the world's tat too. Like I said they are very able at different price points but consumers associate China with inferior products, products made here get the reverse treatment.

That’s not to say one is better than the other but I know what I’d rather put on the back of my product.

 

[tino]

When the label doesn't say clearly where the item is made, or it says "designed and engineered in Great Britain" (without reference to the country of manufacture/assembly) it's obvious that the manufacturer it trying to obfuscate things or trading on the buyer making an assumption that because the brand is, or sounds like it is British (or whatever), it is actually made there. I have no doubt that goods made in China can be built as well as goods elsewhere but that is not the point. Sometimes we want to know where something is built because we want to support the economy and labour force of that country - especially if we live there. Hifi components made in GB, Japan, USA, or Italy etc. are usually quite proud of that fact and have a label that clearly states so.

 

[busb]

China are fantastic producers at most price points..

Then why aren't IAG (Chinese owned) happy to print 'Made In China' on the back of their Chinese manufactured products?

The back of my iPhone (for instance) makes it quite clear where it was designed and where it was assembled.

Cambridge Audio also make it clear that their kit is designed in England and made in China.

Or made in China, designed in the Czech Repulic by an Englishman! A friend said that IAG was not Chinese but Bahrain-based. I can't find anything to support that view:

http://www.internationalaudiogroup.com/executive_summary.php

 

[Covenanter]

The current global model maybe unsustainable to the point that it fractures down to producing stuff locally again. Doing so is a balance between globalised economies of scale on one hand & not transporting coals to Newcastle on the other. Societies may have to sacrifice cheap goods for the sake of local employment.

In the 19th century Cobden wrote "... [should] a country be found whose cottons and woolens shall be cheaper than those of England and the rest of the world then to that spot ... shall all the traders of the earth flock; and no human power, no fleets or armies. will prevent Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds from sharing the fate of their once proud predecessors in Holland, Italy and Phoenicia ...". He was right and the textile industry is no longer located in Britain and what he said applies in the same way to every industry and we in this country would do best to realise that the world changes and we need to change with it.

Chris

That's the commerce-centric view of business that has a great deal of inertia behind it. The world in changing to the point us "little people" are beginning to not only be heard but have collectively more power than many think. Most people don't give a fig where stuff they buy is made but there comes a point when they can't afford even cheap goods, they may just start to care where it's made if it means retaining their means earning money.

On the otherhand, you maybe right, & the 1st world ceases to exist & globalisation equalises pay, healthcare, standards of living, where polution occurs, car ownership etc. Will companies be so eager to move parts of their business overseas if pay began to equalise? It's a very dynamic world we live in & very difficult to predict.

Yep and when I was young in the 1950s Japan was where the cheap stuff came from and it was regarded as "tat". (Similarly at the start of the 20th century Germany was where cheap toys came from.) Then as their economy boomed the wages went up and they had to move upmarket and now generally we view Japanese stuff as being high-quality. The same thing or similar will happen in China and then production will move who knows where, maybe to Africa. As you say, this is very difficult to predict and I certainly don't know the answer.

Certainly all Chinese goods aren't "cheap". My new KEF speakers were made in China and my new bedroom furniture from John Lewis was too and both are very high-quality. On the other hand if you buy Canon camera lenses you are generally recommended to find the ones made in Japan rather than those made in China.

Chris

 

[busb]

The current global model maybe unsustainable to the point that it fractures down to producing stuff locally again. Doing so is a balance between globalised economies of scale on one hand & not transporting coals to Newcastle on the other. Societies may have to sacrifice cheap goods for the sake of local employment.

In the 19th century Cobden wrote "... [should] a country be found whose cottons and woolens shall be cheaper than those of England and the rest of the world then to that spot ... shall all the traders of the earth flock; and no human power, no fleets or armies. will prevent Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds from sharing the fate of their once proud predecessors in Holland, Italy and Phoenicia ...". He was right and the textile industry is no longer located in Britain and what he said applies in the same way to every industry and we in this country would do best to realise that the world changes and we need to change with it.

Chris

That's the commerce-centric view of business that has a great deal of inertia behind it. The world in changing to the point us "little people" are beginning to not only be heard but have collectively more power than many think. Most people don't give a fig where stuff they buy is made but there comes a point when they can't afford even cheap goods, they may just start to care where it's made if it means retaining their means earning money.

On the otherhand, you maybe right, & the 1st world ceases to exist & globalisation equalises pay, healthcare, standards of living, where polution occurs, car ownership etc. Will companies be so eager to move parts of their business overseas if pay began to equalise? It's a very dynamic world we live in & very difficult to predict.

Yep and when I was young in the 1950s Japan was where the cheap stuff came from and it was regarded as "tat". (Similarly at the start of the 20th century Germany was where cheap toys came from.) Then as their economy boomed the wages went up and they had to move upmarket and now generally we view Japanese stuff as being high-quality. The same thing or similar will happen in China and then production will move who knows where, maybe to Africa. As you say, this is very difficult to predict and I certainly don't know the answer.

Certainly all Chinese goods aren't "cheap". My new KEF speakers were made in China and my new bedroom furniture from John Lewis was too and both are very high-quality. On the other hand if you buy Canon camera lenses you are generally recommended to find the ones made in Japan rather than those made in China.

Chris

My iPhone is assembled/contrusted/made in China & is built like a jewel & works/looks the same the day I collected it. I was born in the 50s so remember stuff like my mum keeping spent butter wrappers in the fridge to grease cake tins. I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

 

[Andrew Everard]

I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

 

[tino]

Back to the point of this thread (as opposed to the arguing over the quality of goods manufactured in different countries) is why don't Audiolab put a sticker on their products that says "Made in China" and instead print the Huntingdon, UK address?

 

[Covenanter]

I can also remember the phrase "Gerry built" being used to describe shoddy goods. We were ar war with both the Germans & Japanese not long before. War machines never propagate good feelings about enemies & truthfulness isn't a high priority!

Although of course the term 'jerry-built' has nothing to do with the wartime slang term for the German people.

Indeed not:

"
Jerry builtMeaning
Built in a makeshift and insubstantial manner.
Origin
The phrase has been around since at least 1869, when it was defined in the Lonsdale Glossary:

"Jerry-built, slightly, or unsubstantially built."

By 1901, the term began to be used figuratively - a sure sign of acceptance into the general language; for example, The Daily Chronicle, in August that year printed this opinion:

"In an age of jerry-built books it is refreshing to come across a volume that has taken forty years to compile."

The derivation is unknown. What we do know is that the term has nothing to do with the UK slang term for German - Jerry/Gerry. This is of WWI origin and the citations above pre-date that. As always when a phrase's origin is unknown people like to guess, so here goes. It is possible that the term derives from the slang term jerrycummumble or jerrymumble. This was defined in the 1811 version of Francis Grose's Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue:

"JERRYCUMMUMBLE. To shake, towzle, or tumble about."

Some other guesses, although none of them appear to have any substantiating evidence, place the origin as:

- The cheap, flimsy constructs of Jerry Brothers - a Liverpool building firm. (Note: I've not been able to confirm the existence of this company).

- The walls of Jericho which, as everyone knows 'came tumbling down'.

- The Romany word for excrement - 'gerry'.

- A corruption of 'jury-rig' - although if that were the case we might expect to see some printed reference to 'jury-built' or 'jerry-rigged'. The former is unknown and citations of the latter all date from the 20th century."

Chris

 

[Covenanter]

To return to the OP I found this on a government website:

Country of origin markings Generally speaking, there is no requirement in the law of the United Kingdom or the European Union for goods to bear marks indicating their origin, nor is there anything to prevent voluntary origin marking where traders wish to do so. However, where such marks are applied to goods, the Trade Descriptions Act 1968 (TDA) effectively requires these marks to be accurate. Subject to certain defences, this Act makes it a criminal offence for a person, in the course of business, to apply false or misleading trade descriptions to goods. The term "trade description" includes, amongst others, an indication, however given, of the "place of manufacture, production, processing or reconditioning" of the goods.

So I think they can put "Made in China" if they like or leave it off if they like. Having their UK address is fine unless it said "Made in the UK" when it wasn't.

Chris