are my ears deceiving me ?

[audioaddict]

Popped into hughes today just for a quick browse and noticed the roksan kandy amp and cd player hooked upto to kef ls50. I nearly bought the k2 combo from them early this year. Anyway, I asked the salesman to stick in a cd ( he stuck in the beatles, come together track) which i have at home, and blow me down , was i disappointed with the sound of this top class system. It just didnt seem to have that wow factor that i.d expected. Now everyone to a certain extent is biased towards their own set up, but when i got home and payed the same track, my system sounded so much weightier, detailed and together. I know full well the shop environment is different to my house , but stil, a sytem of this quality should have trounced mine. Any one else had a similar experience ?

 

[Frank Harvey]

Try them with a Naim CD5Si and Naim Nait 5i (now a 5Si), or Nait XS (now XS2). Or even the Pioneer A70 amplifier.

 

[audioaddict]

hi david, i didnt actually go to list to the speakers persae, just curious after having my cr603 for few months now if i was missing anything major, and just glad to say i dont think i am. Not that I'm disputing a direct comparison would see these systems outperform mine, just glad to say i.m very happy with what i,ve got after a lot of money spent in the past.

 

[trickyneedle]

Knowing the Roksan equipment well, this strikes me as somewhat surprising. Their gear is renowned for its high quality audiophile sound (perhaps more so than other price rivals). It could be that something in the set up wasn't right. Whether this is positioning, speaker matching, mains, cabling or whatever, who knows. But I would say it's particularly unusual to be underwhelmed by any Roksan equipment to this extent. I'd urge you to try again, maybe elsewhere, to satisfy your own (and my!) curiosity

 

[TrevC]

Knowing the Roksan equipment well, this strikes me as somewhat surprising. Their gear is renowned for its high quality audiophile sound (perhaps more so than other price rivals). It could be that something in the set up wasn't right. Whether this is positioning, speaker matching, mains, cabling or whatever, who knows. But I would say it's particularly unusual to be underwhelmed by any Roksan equipment to this extent. I'd urge you to try again, maybe elsewhere, to satisfy your own (and my!) curiosity

It's probably more to do with acoustics and speaker positioning rather than the amp or CD player.. Also the LS50s really do need a sub IMO. (i have them, and a BK sub)

 

[plastic penguin]

Popped into hughes today just for a quick browse and noticed the roksan kandy amp and cd player hooked upto to kef ls50. I nearly bought the k2 combo from them early this year. Anyway, I asked the salesman to stick in a cd ( he stuck in the beatles, come together track) which i have at home, and blow me down , was i disappointed with the sound of this top class system. It just didnt seem to have that wow factor that i.d expected. Now everyone to a certain extent is biased towards their own set up, but when i got home and payed the same track, my system sounded so much weightier, detailed and together. I know full well the shop environment is different to my house , but stil, a sytem of this quality should have trounced mine. Any one else had a similar experience ?

What you heard is known as dealer syndrome. I'm pretty sure if you had your set-up side-by-side you'd notice. For all the dealer's effeorts their dem rooms cannot replicate your own living room. Had the same at Richer Sounds when I heard the 603 with Q Acoustics 2010i (I think). The clarity was very good and overall impressive. Would it compare with my set-up side-by-side? Don't know TBH, but I'd be very surprised if it did.

 

[chebby]

I'm with you audioaddict.

There wasn't any 'blow me down' difference between my old Nait 5i/CD5i/NAT05 system and the M-CR603 I replaced it with a couple of years ago. (And despite my misgivings about the Naim system, sound quality certainly wasn't one of them.)

Of course people will tell you the 'superior' system must have been wrongly matched, or was played in the wrong room, or had the wrong cables or... whatever etc.

All I know is that the M-CR603 is an incredible bit of kit (even for the £479 + £40 for AirPlay that I paid back then, let alone the £315 with free AirPlay you'd pay now).

It's not better sounding than an entry level Naim seperates system, but the difference is nothing like the gap in price would suggest.

I have had two years experience (often more than 8 hours a day as I mostly work from home) of both systems and if the 'hi-fi fairy' left a free set of new Naim seperates in my living room tonight, they would be on ebay by Sunday and not the Marantz.

 

[plastic penguin]

Of course people will tell you the 'superior' system must have been wrongly matched, or was played in the wrong room, or had the wrong cables or... whatever etc.

The point I was making not that the Marantz can't compete, but if you go into a dealer on a ad hoc basis and hear a system, you've nothing to compare it with.

It's like years ago, when I purchased the A65+, the dealer had a 10k all- Bryston set-up with PMC OB1s (I think). I wasn't blown away by any stretch, considering the cost. Once I set-up the Arcams (Alpha 7, alongside Nad 352, Rotel RA-02 and A65) the difference was 'poke in the eye' different. From the short time I spent with the 603 it was very good for the money... but had nothing to compare with (and no, I just popped in there while Mrs. P did her own shopping, and the combo was already playing).

 

[TrevC]

When push comes to shove I doubt whether anyone can hear the differences between good amps. Speaker differences are huge however.

 

[lindsayt]

Audioaddict, it would be interesting to repeat your listening test with both systems in the same room at the same time with the same music played at the same volume on both of them to see if this confirmed your impressions or contradicted them. Also interesting to repeat your experiment with a system a couple of notches above the Roksan Kef combination to see if you could notice a significant improvement between your system in your room and a supposedly world class system in another room with a big time gap and possible volume gap between each system.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Read this topic and smiled to myself - I imagine if you heard your system in the same envoroment as the Roksan set you'd be underwelmed.

Pushed a little - I doubt the 603 could come close to the Roksan amp for scale and drive not to mention the dynamics. But if your happy with your set don't tempt fate.....it'll end in misery.

 

[Thompsonuxb]

Of course people will tell you the 'superior' system must have been wrongly matched, or was played in the wrong room, or had the wrong cables or... whatever etc.

The point I was making not that the Marantz can't compete, but if you go into a dealer on a ad hoc basis and hear a system, you've nothing to compare it with.

It's like years ago, when I purchased the A65+, the dealer had a 10k all- Bryston set-up with PMC OB1s (I think). I wasn't blown away by any stretch, considering the cost. Once I set-up the Arcams (Alpha 7, alongside Nad 352, Rotel RA-02 and A65) the difference was 'poke in the eye' different. From the short time I spent with the 603 it was very good for the money... but had nothing to compare with (and no, I just popped in there while Mrs. P did her own shopping, and the combo was already playing).

That Arcan A65+ was one of the best amps I ever heard I remember auditioning one back late 90's (my 1st venture into hifi) with a pair of Eltax liberty 5 (floorstanders) and Marantz cd player, stunning sound huge 3dness and stage - was put off when it started clipping/cutting out when the dealer turned it up a bit ....almost my 1st proper amp.

 

[Singslinger]

Yes, I've had a similar experience - many times in the past. Good to hear that you're enjoying your own setup though - after all, that's what it's all about.

 

[audioaddict]

i actually agree with a lot of whats been said on here after i put this post up but i do kinda agree with chebby in that the marantz is really incredible sounding ...maybe it wldnt stand up to a lot of pricier systems in my living room in some aspects but for overall sound quality i bet it wld...i remember first hearing the 603 with dali fazor 5 and even in the shop it sounded incredible so i dont think the dealer syndrome stands up...maybe a lot of people might underestimate this tiny system compared to expensive separates...it really is a bit special

 

[whiskywheels]

What do you expect from;

a) The Beatles?

b) A piece of music with limited dynamic range and tone?

c) Old recording technology?

 

[audioaddict]

lol erm ive had the system now for six months and am very happy ...do you think all ive listened to in six months is the beatles ? i nearly bought the roksan combo a while back and my previous system was 3k mono bloc so i know a good sound when i have one and the marantz is it ...your comment very funny though

 

[audioaddict]

:cheer: my post was just to say that i dont feel im missing out on anything now ive gone from an expensive system to a tiny micro cos it really is that good :cheer:

 

[p_m_brown]

When push comes to shove I doubt whether anyone can hear the differences between good amps. Speaker differences are huge however.

Maybe if you try using what I deem to be high quality cabling, you would be able to hear the differences more clearly

 

[audioaddict]

cables are fine mate i can hear enough

 

[MajorFubar]

What do you expect from;

...

c) Old recording technology?

Actually I've got LPs mastered on old recorders like the Ampex 300 and the EMI BTR/2 which are more 'hifi' than a lot of the junk turned out today. The technology to record high-quality masters has been around for well-over half a century.

 

[BigH]

What do you expect from;

...

c) Old recording technology?

Actually I've got LPs mastered on old recorders like the Ampex 300 and the EMI BTR/2 which are more 'hifi' than a lot of the junk turned out today. The technology to record high-quality masters has been around for well-over half a century.

Thats true, some of the late 50s and early 60s jazz albums put most of the last 10 years releases to shame. Check out Dave Brubeck, Sonny Rollins and Miles Davis for a start.

 

[audioaddict]

Thnaks guys i agree ive read many times that re issued lp releases arent a patch on the originals which made that other guys comment quite amusing...plus as we know you cant beat lp for sound if its done right

 

[plastic penguin]

:cheer: my post was just to say that i dont feel im missing out on anything now ive gone from an expensive system to a tiny micro cos it really is that good :cheer:

Nice to hear. Sometimes it's worthwhile trying different kit/components, and it proves you don't have to spend shed-loads to get the right sound.

 

[plastic penguin]

Of course people will tell you the 'superior' system must have been wrongly matched, or was played in the wrong room, or had the wrong cables or... whatever etc.

The point I was making not that the Marantz can't compete, but if you go into a dealer on a ad hoc basis and hear a system, you've nothing to compare it with.

It's like years ago, when I purchased the A65+, the dealer had a 10k all- Bryston set-up with PMC OB1s (I think). I wasn't blown away by any stretch, considering the cost. Once I set-up the Arcams (Alpha 7, alongside Nad 352, Rotel RA-02 and A65) the difference was 'poke in the eye' different. From the short time I spent with the 603 it was very good for the money... but had nothing to compare with (and no, I just popped in there while Mrs. P did her own shopping, and the combo was already playing).

That Arcan A65+ was one of the best amps I ever heard I remember auditioning one back late 90's (my 1st venture into hifi) with a pair of Eltax liberty 5 (floorstanders) and Marantz cd player, stunning sound huge 3dness and stage - was put off when it started clipping/cutting out when the dealer turned it up a bit ....almost my 1st proper amp.

The A65 was released in 2002 and as it was less than satifactory Arcam brought out the + version in 2003. Over the 7 years I had my A65+ it never clipped once connected to the RS6s, although once you hit 10-11 o'clock it did start to lose control. This is pretty understandable for a 40 watt £370 amp. Still a fabulous amp for the money. If I had to sell the Leema and wanted to revert to a cheaper option the A65+ would be on the list.

 

[BigH]

I can see the attraction of a low cost sytem, just get on and play the music. I think that the more you spend the more you worry about problems in your expensive system and the more you listen to the system rather than the music. Plenty posts on here about problems in expensive systems, on a cheap system you would not worry about them or even notice them.

When I demo new systems I did not find many of them better than my old system, this could be down to the demo room and me being used to my sound. Your experience could be partly down to expectation basis, where you expect the system to be so much better. Also if you played your system alongside it may sound no so great. Re the LS50s I found I had to turn the volume quite a bit to get them going, so maybe you played at a lowish volume?