Arcam to Roksan???

[admin_exported]

Hi i have arcam AVR250 and Arcam DV79 for both cd and dvd's and i'm running Monitor audio R6s'

After some research i'm quite interested in getting Roksan Caspain setup. Capain M1 Cd and Caspain M1 intergrated amp. This is due to cost really otherwise M2 would be on my list.

I will not have enough money to upgrade my speakers so i was wondering if the monitor ausio speakers sound ok with that setup?

Would the Roksan route be a big stepup to Arcam?

Also ths could be daft questions...

1) If i was to bi amp my speakers would i need another power amp conected to the intergrated amp???

2) Can i connect a blue ray to the intergrated amp and get the best sound/picture etc?

 

[CnoEvil]

Dean, welcome to the forum.

I own the DV79 and used to own the AVR350, so I have an idea of how they sound (which is musical and easy to listen to). Arcam goes very nicely with the RS6s, and I would worry that the Roksan would be too bright and forward with them.

IMO you should be looking at Arcam stereo amps, along with MF M3 series, Leema Pulse (the one on offer), Electrocompaniet and Unison Research Unico range.

I wouldn't worry about bi-amping (you need extra power amps) and spend the money on a decent integrated.

You would need to have the BR connected direct to the TV (hdmi) for the picture, and you can only get stereo if it's connected to the 2 channel amp (provided the BR has stereo out phono connections).

I also think you should keep the DV79 as a CDP, so as to free up as much money as possible for the amp.

Are you running a 5.1 system at the moment and how much money do you have to spend?

Are you biamping your front speakers with the AVR250?

For 5.1 you need an AV amp to do the processing (as well as 3 more speakers and a sub).

I would advise going the stereo route at this stage, with maybe adding a sub from the likes of BK, to give movies a lift.

The AVR250 does not have pre-outs so you cannot connect it to an integrated amp, so at a later date you would need to get an AV amp with these.
If you go for an Arcam stereo amp (or most of those listed), they have HT bypass, which makes it easier to connect to an AV amp later on.

A BRP with multi-channel outs will allow your AVR250 to handle HD audio.

This is a lot to take in, and you need to be clear where your priorities lie.

Cno

 

[Anonymous]

Hi thanks for the info.

After buying an av amp I have realised I do not watch enough DVDs to justify buying the whole surround sound setup. I listen to mostly cd so I want a system dedicated to that but also I want to able to play my DVDs.

I thought I could by a blue ray player but would that mean I need an av amp with hdmi outputs to get better picture and sound? Av250 doesn't have hdmi but the dv79 does.

Do you mean sell the av250 and get a better stero amp? would that improve sound as I have my current setup which is bi amped. I always thought the source (cd) is what you need to improve?

I love the vocal quality in my setup but I want more bass and less treble.

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi Dean

I'm shortly off to work, so will reply later on today.

Meanwhile, can give some idea of the music that you listen to, and the budget you have to play with.

Are you looking for the Arcam sound, but with a bit more "kick" to it?

If you are getting too much treble with your current set up, the speakers are probably to blame...they are known for their slightly bright and lively sound.

Cno

 

[plastic penguin]

Hi Dean

Just echo Cno's recommendations: Unlike Cno I've not heard any multi-channelled amps, but I am a 2-channel Arcam junky.

Up until last year I searched for ages for an amp to replace my A65+ and ended up with a Leema Pulse MKII version. In my pursuit I heard many amps including Roksan Caspian M1 and Naim XS. My personal criterior was a sound that mirrored the Arcams with more attack and purpose. For my ears the Leema has the refinement and organic presentation of Arcam and the attacking prowess of something like Cyrus or Roksan.

BTW, my speakers are RS6s.

If you go with Roksan amp make sure the source is little more restrained as it can sound a little boistrous.

If the Arcam really appeals, look at something in the region of A32, A85 which I suspect will have no problems in bettering the muti-channel amp.

Wherever possible try and audition a couple of amps.

Good luck, pp

 

[altruistic.lemon]

You can connect your blue ray player directly to your TV using the HDMI out. You can then connect the player via RCA to your amp, or an external DAC.

It's what I do, and both sound and picture are pretty amazing.

 

[Anonymous]

I will look into the leema pulse. What cd player are you using?

Im on a tight budget. Looking to spend what I get for my amp plus £100. So second hand.

Does the leema give you more bass than any arcam you have tried?

I listen to rock, blues, indie some dance music.

 

[plastic penguin]

I will look into the leema pulse. What cd player are you using?

Im on a tight budget. Looking to spend what I get for my amp plus £100. So second hand.

Does the leema give you more bass than any arcam you have tried?

I listen to rock, blues, indie some dance music.

CDP is Arcam CD73T.

The Leema's bass is superb: Not the deepest but very powerful, well defined. The main achilles heel to Arcam amps, in the main, is the bass can be a little languid.

The Leema, by contrast, offers a fast, tight, deep lower end.

I've heard various combos with the Leema and Arcam offers a gratifying synergy.

 

[CnoEvil]

Dean, one more question.....what speaker cables and interconnects are you using?

 

[Anonymous]

plastic penguin - have had any results with the leema cd player? How would that compare to arcam?

also how does the cd quality in my arcam dv79 compare with your cd player?

QED silver anniversary speaker cable and QED interconnect

 

[plastic penguin]

plastic penguin - have had any results with the leema cd player? How would that compare to arcam?

also how does the cd quality in my arcam dv79 compare with your cd player?

QED silver anniversary speaker cable and QED interconnect

Sorry Dean, not heard any other Leema product. Neither have I heard the DV79, but I do know that the CD73 is as good as anything I've auditioned below £1,000.

Recently, I auditioned a Naim HDX streamer RRP £4k-£5k with Naim XS amp and Dynaudio Contour 1.4, and the Naim sounded better but not £3.5-£4ks worth better.

Also, from reviews, the Leema Stream can sound a little bright, so I would take the safe option and go with smooth to warm sounding sources.

My cables are: Merlin Chopin interconnects and Chord SilverScreen speaker cables.

All-in-all, I've not heard a better system for the money, but I am biased.

 

[Crocodile]

Some say that silver cables aren't a good match for MA. May be worth trying some cheap copper to see if that helps with the top end.

Have you tried the DVD player with both analogue & digital connections to see if there's any difference?

I don't think you'll find a Pulse within your budget, which seems to be around £300 considering the value of the AVR250. Just to throw another idea into the mix, when I was looking for a decent pairing for my RS6 recently I tried an Arcam A85. I wasn't all that impressed but it did seem to calm the top end compared to the Rotel I was using. I was recommended to seek out the matching power amp but I didn't fancy the extra box nor the cost! Something I was considering was trying an AV350 in bi-amp mode. Cheaper than an A85 + P85, supposedly more powerful at 100WPC & all the fancy AV switching & DAC thrown in. As you're already bi-amping with the 250 it may be worth thinking about. Would also give you the bluray connectivity with HDMI. I found a Leema Pulse III at a good price while I was thinking about the AVR350 so never took it any further.

It would be interesting to hear an opinion from Andrew (he reviewed the 350 for Gramaphone) as to how he thinks it would stack up bi-amped against your existing 250 & a similarly priced (used) intergrated.

 

[plastic penguin]

Some say that silver cables aren't a good match for MA. May be worth trying some cheap copper to see if that helps with the top end.

Have you tried the DVD player with both analogue & digital connections to see if there's any difference?

I don't think you'll find a Pulse within your budget, which seems to be around £300 considering the value of the AVR250. Just to throw another idea into the mix, when I was looking for a decent pairing for my RS6 recently I tried an Arcam A85. I wasn't all that impressed but it did seem to calm the top end compared to the Rotel I was using. I was recommended to seek out the matching power amp but I didn't fancy the extra box nor the cost! Something I was considering was trying an AV350 in bi-amp mode. Cheaper than an A85 + P85, supposedly more powerful at 100WPC & all the fancy AV switching & DAC thrown in. As you're already bi-amping with the 250 it may be worth thinking about. Would also give you the bluray connectivity with HDMI. I found a Leema Pulse III at a good price while I was thinking about the AVR350 so never took it any further.

It would be interesting to hear an opinion from Andrew (he reviewed the 350 for Gramaphone) as to how he thinks it would stack up bi-amped against your existing 250 & a similarly priced (used) intergrated.

Just like to point out to the OP, the SilverScreen isn't a silver cable - only the screening on the outside is silver, but the cable itself is copper.

 

[Crocodile]

Just like to point out to the OP, the SilverScreen isn't a silver cable - only the screening on the outside is silver, but the cable itself is copper.

Indeed.

But he hasn't got Chord Silverscreen he's got QED Silver Anniversary.

Or were you just recommending yours as a replacement?

 

[Shanka]

Hi,

Just to echo some of the above, I don't think the Caspian m2 so possibly the m1 will work well with your speakers.

I had 3 demo's with Caspian and Rx models and while the initial sound was great it became quite fatiguing and on the last demo I even had to switch the system off as it was starting to grate with me.

I also heard them with the Kandy which was better and the Leema pulse which in my ears edged the Kandy, I also tried the audiolab 8200 but thought it sounded a little thin compared with the other two.

Good luck with whatever you decide what to do, your ears are the best judge

 

[Shanka]

Hi,

Just to echo some of the above, I don't think the Caspian m2 so possibly the m1 will work well with your speakers.

I had 3 demo's with Caspian and Rx models and while the initial sound was great it became quite fatiguing and on the last demo I even had to switch the system off as it was starting to grate with me.

I also heard them with the Kandy which was better and the Leema pulse which in my ears edged the Kandy, I also tried the audiolab 8200 but thought it sounded a little thin compared with the other two.

Good luck with whatever you decide what to do, your ears are the best judge

 

[Anonymous]

I guess i just have to try some of the above. I remember buying my gear and it can be a headache, but should be a fun project.

Would an arcam stereo amp be better than my bi amped 250?

Has my cable got something to do with it?

 

[Shanka]

Hi,

I agree it can be lot of fun but when i was looking/listening there were times when I felt more and more confused, bewildered and frustrated, I didn't know here existed which may have even confused me more but as long as you demo as much as you can you will be alright.

I also found the prices kept going up.

However I believe your ears will tell you when something is right, I think its a bit like buying a house but you know when you have found the right one, sometimes you just know.

Enjoy it, you miss it when it's over.

 

[Anonymous]

yeah completely agree.

I like the look of cyrus but do they have problems with the loading cd's?

I remember trying them out and it felt like they where too powerful for the monitor audios.

Maybe the rs6's are holding me back?

headache!!!

 

[CnoEvil]

At last I now have time to sit down and give you my advice.

You have good kit and I think it can sound better than you might believe. The DV79 is a great CDP (through analogue out), and the AVR250 can sound excellent when bi-amped, and used in "Stereo Direct" mode. It's performance is quite close to the AVR350, which I used bi-amped for a while (Kef IQ9).

Since you are on a limited budget, and like a lot of what your hearing at the moment, it makes sense to make the most of what you already have... (The AVR250 will be not be worth a lot 2nd hand, so you're better keeping it if possible). IMO you can do this as follows:

1. Replace the QED I/Cs and S/Cs, which are adding to your problem. I would get some Linn Black I/Cs from Ebay (usually £12-£15) and some Atlas Hyper 2 S/C (try to borrow some from a dealer). Failing that PPs suggestions are also good (Merlin & Chord Silver Screen).

2. Get some Clearer Audio mains cables - Copperline Alpha+ for amp, and Copperline Alpha for DV79. These can be returned for a refund if no difference is heard. I have always found a surprising improvement. Info here: http://www.cleareraudio.com/onlinestore/Copper_line_Alpha_Power.html

3. Look to room acoustics and speaker positioning. Can you describe your room (how furnished), what sort of floor (is it suspended/wooden/carpeted), and how the speakers are positioned in relation to wall and corners.

4. Get some Granite Worktop savers and place the speakers (spikes + spike shoes) on these. Can be returned if no improvement.

5. The DV79 is such a good DVD player, I don't think you need a BRP at the moment; but if you do get one, make sure it has multi channel outs, so you can enjoy HD audio if that becomes an option. BTW the hdmi on the DV79 is for picture only - to do with progressive scan (I think).

Since I have heard all these improvements on very similar kit to yours, I believe that you will be pleasantly surprised with the result (though others will disagree).....most of the suggestions can be returned if no improvements are heard.

If you are still unhappy, you may be looking at different speakers....PMC sound great with Arcam.

To get a substantial improvement, I would wait until you have a bigger budget to throw at this, but by doing it this way, it allows you to get into AV at a later date.

Good Luck

Cno

 

[Anonymous]

thanks for all the help i might try some parts out.

I was thinking about buying some old cyrus gear? Cyrus DVD7 which playes cd and DVD? would this be better? and getting a cyrus III intergrated amp.... i could pick these up tomorrow for my arcam setup.....

good idea? or am i rushing into it.

with what i have and the budget I don't know what improvements can be made unless I buy and sell with older generation gear....

 

[CnoEvil]

thanks for all the help i might try some parts out.

I was thinking about buying some old cyrus gear? Cyrus DVD7 which playes cd and DVD? would this be better? and getting a cyrus III intergrated amp.... i could pick these up tomorrow for my arcam setup.....

good idea? or am i rushing into it.

with what i have and the budget I don't know what improvements can be made unless I buy and sell with older generation gear....

I can only guess at this, but if you are finding the Arcam a tad bright, you will most likely find the Cyrus too forward and substantially brighter, especially with your speakers. I would advise against any bright/forward sounding amps in your current set up.

Why don't you try working through my suggestions, most of which can be returned or sold on, if unsuitable.

You have good gear.....all you need to do is make the most of it. If it doesn't work out, then that is the time to reassess your situation (and you haven't spent much).

 

[Anonymous]

Also with regards to the atlas hyper 2, do I get bi wire or go for the single lengths? Also I currently use no connectors so I guess it's best to leave the ends with no connectors or plugs?

 

[Anonymous]

Hi thanks for the advice I will go about making those changes.

Ill start with speaker cable and interconnects. The linn black is usually £80? But I'll find it for £15 secondhand? Looks like on eBay 1.2n is £25. It says that originally it was a phono cable for turntable to pre amp. I guess from your experience it softens the highs?

Have you had experience of chord company chameleon?

 

[plastic penguin]

Couldn't tell you about Atlas, but I've always used bare ends single wire with Arcam.