Arcam FMJ A19 with MA RX 6

[plastic penguin]

Thankx PP! There are significant differences concerning sound quality between Marantz and Arcam amps? As far as I know they are both neutral.

Long time ago I gave a blow by blow account on how the aforementioned Marantzes compared to Arcam with the RS6s, but since the site revamp I've little chance of finding it. However....

From memory, the midrange Marantzes sounded a little warmer in the LFs and midrange, and they sounded pleasant enough. My main gripe was they could sound slightly 'testing' when it came to the HFs.

My conclusion over the years of testing different amps at differing price brackets is that the RS6/RX6s sound the best, best balance with amplification with a great midrange -- not necessarily the warmest, but amps that excel with midrange expression and subtlety. To that end, I've not heard better at the price (with RS6/RX6) than Arcam and Creek.

 

[dan25]

Totaly agree that Creek 50A is a good amp but the dealer(same dealer that is salling arcam) told me that is on the bright side. With ma rx6 I don't think they will make a good combo. Big H you said that arcam a19 is not neutral in your opinion. How did you find it? Warm or bright? PP what do you mean by 'testing'?

 

[BigH]

Totaly agree that Creek 50A is a good amp but the dealer(same dealer that is salling arcam) told me that is on the bright side. With ma rx6 I don't think they will make a good combo. Big H you said that arcam a19 is not neutral in your opinion. How did you find it? Warm or bright? PP what do you mean by 'testing'?

Arcam are warm, although I think the A19 is more neutral than earlier models. For me it was too refined. The Creek was not bright but maybe with MA speakers, I heard it with Epos mostly. Its worth a try, less bass than the Arcam according to some reviews.

 

[unsleepable]

Thank you all for the usefull input. @unsleepable: What other amps have you auditioned together with your speakers? I found Marantz pm8005 (new pearl lite) for a good price (1000 eur). Since pm8005 is quite new not many reviews are available. Does somebody has experience with this amp or with pm ki pearl lite?

For my speakers, I was particularly interested in Exposure, and I auditioned both the 2010s2 and the 3010s2. Great amps. I also auditioned/bought/sold Musical Fidelity M3i, Rega Brio-R, Naim XS-2, Creek Evo 2—and at least a couple of Nad and another couple of Denon that I can't recall. Some of these I really liked, but the A19 was the one closest to the sound I was looking for. I feel like I may be leaving something behind.

It was a bit of a nightmare with all the box shuffling, comparing side-by-side, and stuff. For months I was paying more attention to the sound rather than enjoying the music. For the moment I'd only consider going up the range, and I don't think I will try something very different in terms of amp/speakers for a while—probably until I move to another place.

 

[plastic penguin]

Totaly agree that Creek 50A is a good amp but the dealer(same dealer that is salling arcam) told me that is on the bright side. With ma rx6 I don't think they will make a good combo. Big H you said that arcam a19 is not neutral in your opinion. How did you find it? Warm or bright? PP what do you mean by 'testing'?

Unless the 50A is radically different from the Evo2, the direct replacement, Creek isn't bright. But then again, the dealer may have his own agenda.

Big H also thinks PMC DB1is are dull sounding.... but I've owned entry-level Arcams since 1997 until I purchased the Leema, and I can assure you Arcam isn't warm. As I previously mentioned, they have a great midband, with the tonal quality pretty neutral, bordering on smooth.

In your situation I would look at buying ex-dem or s/hand Arcam A38 or Creek Destiny. Or perhaps s/hand Leema Pulse. *blum3*

EDIT - Sorry, missed the 'testing bit. What I mean by that is the Marantzes, with certain music genres, could cross the line between the treble being sweet and becoming a little uncomfortable, hence making the listening experience 'testing'.

 

[unsleepable]

I heard about 10 amps in various demos, I would have picked the Creek 50A as my favourite, did not like the Arcam A19, too refined for me but only short demo with B&W CM1s.

I have never heard B&W speakers together with Arcam amplification. But somehow for the B&W speakers I've heard, I don't think that Arcam would be the best match. As usual it's a matter of taste.

I don't think Arcam are neutral but the A19 maybe more neutral than previous Arcam amps.

Side by side, I find the A19 somewhat more neutral than my P38—which anyways I don't find a markedly warm amp.

 

[BigH]

Big H also thinks PMC DB1is are dull sounding....

I don't remember saying that. In the demo I had they did sound cold and thin, I heard the LS50s straight after and they sounded much warmer, maybe the PMCs were out of phase?

 

[plastic penguin]

Big H also thinks PMC DB1is are dull sounding....

I don't remember saying that. In the demo I had they did sound cold and thin, I heard the LS50s straight after and they sounded much warmer, maybe the PMCs were out of phase?

Apologise, BigH. You're probably right about describing them as "cold and thin" (it is late, after all).

I've heard the DB1i numerous times both at home with my old Arcam and Leema, and shop dems with Naim and Cyrus, and I could never describe them "cold and thin". Total opposite -- for their cabinet size they punch well above their size and price bracket.

 

[BigH]

Big H also thinks PMC DB1is are dull sounding....

I don't remember saying that. In the demo I had they did sound cold and thin, I heard the LS50s straight after and they sounded much warmer, maybe the PMCs were out of phase?

Apologise, BigH. You're probably right about describing them as "cold and thin" (it is late, after all).

I've heard the DB1i numerous times both at home with my old Arcam and Leema, and shop dems with Naim and Cyrus, and I could never describe them "cold and thin". Total opposite -- for their cabinet size they punch well above their size and price bracket.

Well I did find that post and it was the Gold version I heard, not sure if that makes a difference? After my comments a couple of others did agree also. Anyway could have been out of phase?

 

[plastic penguin]

Big H also thinks PMC DB1is are dull sounding....

I don't remember saying that. In the demo I had they did sound cold and thin, I heard the LS50s straight after and they sounded much warmer, maybe the PMCs were out of phase?

Apologise, BigH. You're probably right about describing them as "cold and thin" (it is late, after all).

I've heard the DB1i numerous times both at home with my old Arcam and Leema, and shop dems with Naim and Cyrus, and I could never describe them "cold and thin". Total opposite -- for their cabinet size they punch well above their size and price bracket.

Well I did find that post and it was the Gold version I heard, not sure if that makes a difference? After my comments a couple of others did agree also. Anyway could have been out of phase?

It's possible, I suppose. Not heard the 'Gold' version, which I believe started life as a limited edition for SSAV outlets, although I could be mistaken.

It's not out of the question there could've been a problem with one or both mid/bass drivers.

Thinking back about my time with the DB1is, the only issue I had was, when playing DVDs with large scale sountracks, the bass was obv lacking a little, although there wasn't a problem with music in general -- this is why I purchased the TB2is.

 

[dan25]

Thank you all. @unsleepable: what music do you listen? @pp: leema i would buy second hand for a good price. You posted an ebay link but the seller was the second owner. Me third owner no no no... A38 doesn't have good reviews on whf. Instead I can buy a28 for the same price with a19. Does anybody knows this amp? Can I have better performance with it on ma rx6 than a19? The arcam dealer has a black friday event fron 31.10 until 8.11. If they can offer a very good price for some good amps I wll buy without audition. If I won't like it I will sell it with the same money .

 

[Esra]

The best reasonable priced amp combo i have heard (along many,so which i liked most) with the rx6 was a Peachtree used as DAC/Pre (ESS 9018) into a Audiolab 8200P amp (works also for many other speakers more on the neutral/bright side). Audiolab M-Dac should do similar maybe even better as it uses same chip and offers more filter (useful with different style of music).The Peachtree only has slow/fast digital filter but perfectly good too,it´s more the pre section which makes the sound.

 

[plastic penguin]

Thank you all. @unsleepable: what music do you listen? @pp: leema i would buy second hand for a good price. You posted an ebay link but the seller was the second owner. Me third owner no no no... A38 doesn't have good reviews on whf. Instead I can buy a28 for the same price with a19. Does anybody knows this amp? Can I have better performance with it on ma rx6 than a19? The arcam dealer has a black friday event fron 31.10 until 8.11. If they can offer a very good price for some good amps I wll buy without audition. If I won't like it I will sell it with the same money .

It would be easy to dismiss the A38 based on WHFI's review, but all other reviews have been favourable. For example Hi-fiW had the A38 as their reference amp at the thprice bracket. Have a guess what other amp at that price did they use to test their gear? Yup, Leema Pulse. If I didn't have the Leema I would probably have had the A38 or a Creek Destiny.

As regards the A28, the people on here who've owned or heard one weren't too enthused by it, one person saying it isn't much better than the A19.

 

[dan25]

Thanx Esra.
PP what do I gain if I use higher power amp for normal listening levels ( I have neighbours though ) ? Is the difference only at high volumes?

 

[plastic penguin]

PP what do I gain if I use higher power amp for normal listening levels ( I have neighbours though ) ? Is the difference only at high volumes?

It isn't necessarily about power but how an amp uses that power. You need an amp with quality over quantity. This is true with the RS6 and RX6s. The A19 is fine, like most from the Cambridge-based company, but you do notice extra poise and control at all volume levels. That difference is instantly noticeable.

For instance, the Leema, which is 80 watts per channel, drive speakers IMHO as easy as a 130 watt Kandy. Likewise the Creek Evo, same wattage as my Leema, is a real gutsy little amp.

I would say the minimum would be Creek 50, going up Roksan Caspian, Leema Elements (or Pulse if you can find a low mileage good'un), Arcam A38, Creek Destiny. Or if you can source one: Primare i31.

 

[dan25]

You meant Creek 50A? Isn't it rated with the same power as Arcam a19?

 

[Esra]

Within your budget of 1000 Euro (slightly above) the Arcam A19 and Evo 50 are good choices for your RX6 , and although you could do certainly better if you spend nearly x 2- 2,5 your budget it will sound nice.Ruby Dac,if it ever comes for the Evo50, will be around 350 Euros as I heard.

Other options you could and should consider within your budget and worth to demo are NAD 356Bee (upgradable with internal Dac) and Yamaha AS1000 if you need analogue inputs and NAD D7050 which is digital only and has a DAC and spotify connect onboard which is a nice choice well under < =1000 Euro if you would only need digital inputs and are more interested in streaming.

 

[plastic penguin]

You meant Creek 50A? Isn't it rated with the same power as Arcam a19?

Yeah. Didn't realise it was that low. The Evo2 was 80 watts. However, still think it won't have issues at normal listening levels. That said, still think Arcam A38 or Leema are a better choice. As I mentioned above, it'll be quality over quantity.

 

[dan25]

PP what about Leema Pulse III? Is it similar with Leema Pulse? Or the sonic signature is different? Does it pair with ma rx6?

 

[plastic penguin]

PP what about Leema Pulse III? Is it similar with Leema Pulse? Or the sonic signature is different? Does it pair with ma rx6?

The Pulse will sound wonderful with either RS or RX ranges.

However, one important caveat: Unless there's a 'returns' available, I would look at current models (Leema Elements), or Arcam, Creek, Roksan Kandy/Caspian or Primare or Marantz Pearl Lite. At least, then, you'll have a safety net of a dealer should it not be to your liking.

 

[dan25]

Hello all,
First of all thank you all for your sugestions.
Since home audition was not possible I went blind for Arcam A19 and Arcam irDac for my MA rx6 constrained also by the budget. I was lucky because I am really impressed by the sound. I have to admit that I am really new in audio hi fi and my opinions may be subjective. When I started first the amplifier I was suddenly impressed by the detail level and sounstage. The bass is a bit quiet and boomy but this may be caused by the room acoustics and the fact that maybe the amp is not yet burned in. I also have fixed points in the room where the bass is totaly canceled. I have to work on this. Regarding amp speakers matching I have to say that they go very well together. I have now only 6 h audition and I am really curious how it will sound after 100 h.
I am currently using hama cables 4mm thickness. It was a cheap and quick buy from a local store. Do you think changing the cables can improve the sound or is only a myth?

 

[dan25]

Ohh,
Forgot to mention that I set volume to 28 and get a good loud sound. I cannot set it above 35 because is to loud for my room. This is impressive!

 

[CnoEvil]

Do you think changing the cables can improve the sound or is only a myth?

It depends on who you ask, so it's one to try for yourself......try to find a dealer who will lend you stuff to experiment with.

 

[plastic penguin]

Hello all, First of all thank you all for your sugestions. Since home audition was not possible I went blind for Arcam A19 and Arcam irDac for my MA rx6 constrained also by the budget. I was lucky because I am really impressed by the sound. I have to admit that I am really new in audio hi fi and my opinions may be subjective. When I started first the amplifier I was suddenly impressed by the detail level and sounstage. The bass is a bit quiet and boomy but this may be caused by the room acoustics and the fact that maybe the amp is not yet burned in. I also have fixed points in the room where the bass is totaly canceled. I have to work on this. Regarding amp speakers matching I have to say that they go very well together. I have now only 6 h audition and I am really curious how it will sound after 100 h. I am currently using hama cables 4mm thickness. It was a cheap and quick buy from a local store. Do you think changing the cables can improve the sound or is only a myth?

To try and minimise boomy experiment with speaker positioning. The RS and RX6s need a minimum of 18" from the back wall.

Regards cables, I've used Chord SilverScreen to great effect. Despite the name they are essentially copper cables with a silver protection, reduce any interferance.

As Cno suggests, you'll get differing responses and not all are that helpful.

 

[dan25]

Thanx for sugestions! I also asked dealer if cables can improve sound and he told me that they are using 35 eur/m naim cables with good results. I need 3 m cable. The current cables I am using does not have banana plugs. Thay are inserted in the screw holes of the amp and speakers. Are this plugs important? Concerning sound, which characteristics are improved by changing cables?