Ampli Upgrade for KEF IQ70 (Roksan Kandy K2 ?)

[julz]

Hi,

I've been into Hi Fi for one year now with the following equipment (cf. signature) knowing that my system is dedicated to dematerialized music (AIFF format mostly but also MP3 from 320 kbts to 192 kbts). I listen to almost all kind of music : Electronic, Funk, World, Jazz, Dub, Reggae, R&B, Classical...

I'm very pleased with my system at litlle/medium volume, knowing that my priority is to get a warm and very musical sound, even if colored and not completely linear/neutral. I like details of course but don't like the sound to be too much analytic/chirurgical (I used to have a home studio in a former life and don't want at all this kind of sound which is indispensable to "work" on music, but not that suitable when you just want to listen to it and enjoy it for a long time...).

My problem is when I push the volume (+/- above 2/3), the sound gets a bit fuzzy and especially too bright with medium/treble pushed forward (I haaaate bright sound !!).

So I wanted to take advantage of christmas to treat myself with a new amplifier since I think my sound problem at high volumes comes from the amp (or not ?). After more than three weeks of reading, I'm considering the Roksan Kandy K2 since it has a bunch of great reviews from specialized press/websites and forum.

Have you ever heard the Ronksan Kandy K2 paired with KEF IQ 70? Do you think it could be a good match donsidering my taste ?

Moreover do you think my problem of bright sound at high volumes could come from my amplifier ? (knowing that my Hi Fi room is 4m depdth, 5.5 meter large and 3 meter high).

Thank you very much for your help, knowing that it's impossible for me to find any Roksan Kandy where I live, so quite difficult to listen to it...

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi there, and welcome.

With your Dac and an Audio Analogue amp, the sound should not be that bright unless you have a difficult room. I know the IQ series can tip into brightness with the wrong ancillaries or a "live" sounding room (I had IQ9s).

If you wish to keep the speakers, I would first look at Sugden, Pathos and Arcam, or possibly a Valve amp from the likes of Icon Audio or Unison Research.

 

[julz]

Hi CnoEvil,

Thank you very much for your answer.

So you wouldn't consider a Kandy K2 considering my "sound taste" and brightness problem.

I actually think you're right about my room which might be a little bright... But I really like the IQ70 and so does my wife (those speaker are particularly WAF).

Do you have any reference I could investigate on regarding the recommended ampli within a budget of +/- 1 000€ ?

Thanks again for your help !

 

[Frank Harvey]

If your room is a little live, it might be worth making sure the speakers aren't too near side walls that will exaggerate this, and sticking a rug between you and the speakers if you have laminated floors. Maybe a room layout plan or photo of the setup might help to get some useful ideas on what to do

 

[CnoEvil]

Hi CnoEvil,

Thank you very much for your answer.

So you wouldn't consider a Kandy K2 considering my "sound taste" and brightness problem.

I actually think you're right about my room which might be a little bright... But I really like the IQ70 and so does my wife (those speaker are particularly WAF).

Do you have any reference I could investigate on regarding the recommended ampli within a budget of +/- 1 000€ ?

Thanks again for your help !

I would never rule out a product for someone else.....I'd rather throw out alternative suggestions that I think might be better.

Sorry, but can you clarify what you mean by +/- €1k (ie. Up to 1k; or between 1k and 2k)...please give the most you are prepared to spend.

Some suggestions to be getting on with:

- Creek Evolution 2

- Musical Fidelity M3i

- Harman Kardon HK990

- Arcam A19

 

[julz]

Thank you for your answers.

Regarding my budget il would be from 1 000€ to 1 200€, ideally no more. But as always, if it is worth waiting a month or two in order to buy a 1500€/1 800€ amplifier that will match with my expectation and deliver the sound I'm looking for, I will definitively consider it.

@CnoEvil : thanks for you amp list, I'm going to look at review of those products.

@FrankHarveyHiFi : here are photos of my set-up when I used to have the HK3490 (FYI, I now have a 1m x 1.8m rug in the middle of my living room + I mooved away my left speaker from the side wall which is now at 20 cm from it / made a nice difference)

Las point : the back wall is not a wall but a 5.5m plate glass window with a 5.5m light curtain veil

Important point : the brigthness ans fuziness only appears at high volume (2/3 of amp power), not at low/middle volume

Thanks gain for your help

 

[CnoEvil]

That room is very difficult / reflective.

As David has suggested, anything you can do to deaden the room will help (eg. rugs etc)

I think you will definitely need a fairly warm sounding sounding amp...maybe something like a Sugden Mystro.......but you must try out any potential purchase at home, to prevent an expensive disappointment........don't rule out valve amps.

 

[julz]

Thanks for your feedback.

Just for my knowledge, why is it a difficult/reflective room ? Because of the plate glass window behind ?

Regarding valve amp, what brand would you recommend in my price range ? (I don't know nothing on valve amp...)

Last question, do you think changing my speaker could be a solution ? If it is really necessary to avoid bright sound at high volume then I'll also consider that solution...

Tks

 

[CnoEvil]

- Any areas of hard shiny surfaces reflect sound eg. Glass, Tiles, Laminate floors etc

- The opposite is carpets, soft furnishes, curtains.

- One of your speakers is in a corner and the other has free space behind it.

As for valve amps, look to Icon Audio: http://www.audioaffair.co.uk/Icon-Audio

Or Pure Sound A30.....for example, Kronos AV seems to have an ex-dem one at £999: http://www.kronosav.com/index.php/amplifiers-1/integrated-amplifiers/valve.html

Unison Research make lovely sounding amps, but are a bit more money.

 

[ISAC69]

The Roksan Kandy is a great amp . It sounds very warm, deatailed and the most important very neutral . This amp is not fussy and can move

almost every speakers easly . the Roksan is a great value for money .

 

[SteveR750]

You biggest problem is that your LH speaker is firing almost right up against a nice reflective wall, whilst your RH speaker into free space. If you can't move your system about a metre to thr right (and I can see you probably can't) or place it against the opposite, or different wall, then point both speakers about 20 - 30 degress toe in, and put you listening chair closer. That way you'll alleviate the imbalance of reflected sound somewhat.

If it were my room, I'd have both speakers against the Left Hand wall (so move the whole system 90 degrees to the left). That way both speakers will be firing against the same side walls which you could treat / adjust position / toe in etc but they would be seeing the same acoustic load.

Unfortunately, your room and position looks about as bad as it could get....

 

[julz]

Thank you all for your time and complete answers.

"Unfortunately, your room and position looks about as bad as it could get...."

This is a very bad/sad news because unfortunatelly there is not much I can do (it is not possible to move the all system to the Left Hand wall because it wouldn't be conveniant at all for a day to day living...).

I'll try the suggested solution (pointing both speaker about 20/30 degrees toe in and put my listening chair closer).

And don't you think it could be another solution to put the two speaker clother even if I loose on sound stage ?

Last point, since this bad set-up (bad room + bad position) results in a too bright sound at high volumes, shouldn't I replace speakers/ampli and get a system which would be overly warm/musical and opposite to brighthness in order to compensate ? Maybe it is not worth doing anything because nothing will compensate my bad set-up ?

Tks

 

[CnoEvil]

Last point, since this bad set-up (bad room + bad position) results in a too bright sound at high volumes, shouldn't I replace speakers/ampli and get a system which would be overly warm/musical and opposite to brighthness in order to compensate ? Maybe it is not worth doing anything because nothing will compensate my bad set-up ?

Tks

I wouldn't take such a pessimistic view. The important thing is to be aware of it and let it shape your thinking. Gear that can sound a little dull in a damped room, can come to life in a reflective one.

IMO. To proceed from here:

- Listen to smooth sounding amps

- Always home demo before purchasing

- Do what you can to acoustically dampen the room

- Be prepared to change the speakers if you can't get an amp that works.

I believe it is quite possible to get a system that will sound much better in that location, but it will take a bit of extra time, care and research.

 

[julz]

Hi all,

I hope you enjoyed your Christmas.

Just to give you some news, I've just hung-up up with a very nice guy who wants to sell his Sugden A21SE (bought in 2006) for 1500€. Following your advice, I inquired on Sugden and a priori their amp are very warm and musical and the A21SE looks as one of their best amp.

The personn who sells it is a real audiophile and took good care of the amp so I think it can be a great deal. I'm not that much of a "second hand guy", but considering this outstanding ampli according to nearly all reviews, its warm and musical sound as I'm looking for, the price (half of a new one) and the personn who owned it, I think it would be stupid not to consider this opportunity.

Looking forward to listening to it !

Keep you posted,

Julien

 

[CnoEvil]

If I had my choice of amps round that money, it would be the Sugden A21 SE and it should be a fantastic match with your speakers. If that doesn't go a long way to solve your problem, I'll eat my socks!

Report in on how you get on

 

[julz]

Thanks.

I think it should be a good match too and so did the seller when I told him I had a sound a little too bright right now. He told me that this amp needed lively and vivacious speakers.

And given what's said on each review/post on that amp, It really looks like the sound I'm looking for. So if it doens't match with my Kef IQ70 I'll buy new speakers and you'll eat your socks... Either way it'll have a bitter taste.

"Bon reveillon" to everybody btw.

 

[julz]

Thanks for you answer CnoEvil, it chears me up a bit for christmas !

I have always loved listening to music and Hi Fi was a revelation for me when I got into it last year. And eventhough my present system is entry level, improving it is now part of my objective (and my budget) for alway more llistening pleasure...

Merry Christmas to everybody and don't eat too much pudding (I won't eat too much frog legs either)

Julien

 

[julz]

Hi all,

I've just received my Sugden A21SE and it is fantastic... Indeed.

All what I was looking for : very musical sound and yet very precise with great details, wide stage, and this little thing that makes your foot just get into the groove. So good.

I really loved the Audio Analogue Crescendo and would recommand it for a 600€ budget for somebody who likes the sound describe above (I actually sold it in two days for 500€, so it didn't loose that much), but the Sugden really plays in another ligue. The two amps share the same spirit and philosophy, but the Sudgen push it way beyond.

And it is a great match with the KEF IQ70. Of course I could offer better speaker to the Sugden but this set-up should be fine for a couple of year.

Anyway I've been listening to music since I came back from work, and I can"t go to sleep because this machine is amazingly addictive... I rediscover all my music. My chance we're off for two days.

And thanks again for your wise advices CnoEvil, I think I've just started a long-term relationship with this british brand...

 

[CnoEvil]

Thank you for reporting back, as it's always good to hear when somebody gets sorted......and yes, Sugden would be a great match with Kef IQ.

Class A is the way to go, and the Sugden Masterclass range brings it to a whole series of other levels! :shifty:

The socks are now back in drawer!

:cheers:

Cno

 

[julz]

The socks are now back in drawer!

Hope you don't have other bets here and there...

Cheers :cheers:

 

[plastic penguin]

The Audio Analogue Crescendo is a really good amp for the money. That said, to my ears, the Creek Evo is superior but ended with the Leema, IMHO, is a 'game changer' in its price bracket.

Your room acoustics is the polar opposite to my room, which has the thick curtains, carpets and wallpaper.

Not heard the Sugdens but do come with a good reputation.

Good luck, pp

 

[julz]

Hi All,

Just a litlle update on my system evolution since I started this post.

I keep enjoying everyday the Sugden A21SE and really think I found my partner for a long time.

I also bought a new DAC (Hegel HD20) wich helped improving the sound pretty much in all domain compared to the Maverick. And I finally changed the Interconnect and Digital cable with a french brand which I don't think is very wellknown in UK but which has a solid reputation here (MPC Audio). I must admit that I used to be pessimistic on cables influence, but when I switched my speaker cable from Qued Audio Perf 2 to Supra Ply 3.4 I was pretty estonished by the power and influence of cables in an audio system. MPC cables brought also a lot in my configuration giving more details, tighter bass and letting much more details going through.

I must admit that by curiosity I brought nearly all my set-up to a Hi Fi shop to listen to a pair of Proac D18 which is said to be a great match with Sugden, and eventhough it is undeniably better than my current speaker, I didn't fell the urge to change. I have still a lot to enjoy with my current set-up...

Anyway thanks again for your help and advices. Happy to see that even with a "difficult" room it is possible to come-up thanks to a little patience and time to something really nice, a very involving and musical sound.

 

[CnoEvil]

It's great to hear back from you, and I'm delighted that you are still enjoying your system....which, after all, is the main thing.

:cheers:

Cno

 

[julz]

Hi,

Just to give you a little update on my system.

I keep on with the "British sound" which I particularly appreciate and treated myself with a nice upgrade : I've just traded my KEF IQ70 to a pair of Proac D18 Rosewood.

I've heared them with my A21SE / Hegel HD20 for over 2 hours in my Hi FI shop, the sound was

I just couldn't resist, and ordered a pair that should arrive in two weeks... Sweat.

Meanwhile I should get my A21SE back from the official Sugden's French repairer.

As a matter of fact after a solid party at my place with the amp playing for 4/5 hours at level 1/3 and sometimes a bit more, the amp just didn't switch on anymore the next day (everything was perfect when I switched it off the day before). The repairer told me that after such a level for a long time one should switch the volume back to 0 and wait for 15/20 mn before switching the Amp off in order to let the to amp cool off.. Good to know.

The repairer was really nice, a complete Sugden freak who owned a A28, A21A old model and few other Sugdens.

He dismembered the amp in front of me to check where did the breakdown came from and took advantage of this to explain me how the Sugden worked. Very interesting, moreover for a "quiche" in electronic like me.

Looking forward now to receiving my new Proacs !

I'll post my impression as soon as I receive them, although the vendor told me it took more than 200 hours of burn in. Pretty long, but worth it...

Julien

PS : i'll also will have to change my avatar...

 

[CnoEvil]

Sudden and Proac are one of those classic combinations, and should be a good step up from the IQ70s.......good choice. :rockout: