hi all, i recently demo'd pmc db1i and proac studio 110 on my kandy cdp and amp. the pmc's were very good and i preferred them to the proac's because of the proac's excessive treble to my ears. however, i was very taken by the speed and agility of the proac's and with a more even tonal balance i think i would have got them. can anyone suggest something that might provide what i am after? or do you think that the tonal balance was the reason the proac's sounded faster? on the proac's it seemed a little easier to hear what the bass was doing although there was a lot less of it.
£600-£1000 standmounts
- Thread starter Craig M.
- Start date
At this price level I would be looking at floorstanders and the following to start with:
B&W 683 £900
Dali Ikon 6 £900
Triangle Antal ES £975
KEF iQ9 £800
If it has to be standmounts because of a small room, something from Dynaudio (Focus 110? £850), Sonus Faber Concertino Domus £780'ish, Ruark Sabre III £900, Spendor S3/5R £725, Monitor Audio GS10 £800, Acoustic Energy AE1 Classic £850'ish. What about the ProAc Tablette Ref Eight too? The Signature edition is also within this range.
B&W 683 £900
Dali Ikon 6 £900
Triangle Antal ES £975
KEF iQ9 £800
If it has to be standmounts because of a small room, something from Dynaudio (Focus 110? £850), Sonus Faber Concertino Domus £780'ish, Ruark Sabre III £900, Spendor S3/5R £725, Monitor Audio GS10 £800, Acoustic Energy AE1 Classic £850'ish. What about the ProAc Tablette Ref Eight too? The Signature edition is also within this range.
i sit just 10 feet from the speakers and given it was the agility of the proac's i really liked i was thinking that standmounts would sound faster then floorstanders?
i plan on listening to the dynaudio focus 110 and proac tablette ref eight, the dealer where i demo'd the speakers suggested some linn ones (can't remember name) as a mix of the pmc and studio 110 but i didn't have enough time to hear them.
i plan on listening to the dynaudio focus 110 and proac tablette ref eight, the dealer where i demo'd the speakers suggested some linn ones (can't remember name) as a mix of the pmc and studio 110 but i didn't have enough time to hear them.
[quote user="Craig M."]
i sit just 10 feet from the speakers and given it was the agility of the proac's i really liked i was thinking that standmounts would sound faster then floorstanders?
i plan on listening to the dynaudio focus 110 and proac tablette ref eight, the dealer where i demo'd the speakers suggested some linn ones (can't remember name) as a mix of the pmc and studio 110 but i didn't have enough time to hear them.
[/quote]
Where did you hear that? I've heard some extremely fast multi-driver floorstanders. 10 feet isn't too close really.
i sit just 10 feet from the speakers and given it was the agility of the proac's i really liked i was thinking that standmounts would sound faster then floorstanders?
i plan on listening to the dynaudio focus 110 and proac tablette ref eight, the dealer where i demo'd the speakers suggested some linn ones (can't remember name) as a mix of the pmc and studio 110 but i didn't have enough time to hear them.
[/quote]
Where did you hear that? I've heard some extremely fast multi-driver floorstanders. 10 feet isn't too close really.
i am very interested in the atc's but have been a little put off by comments regarding how much volume they need before they start to sing. its difficult for me to get my kit to anywhere outside of hull and i cant find anywhere that does atc and roksan in the same shop.
[quote user="gpi"]At this price level I would be looking at floorstanders
If it has to be standmounts because of a small room, .[/quote]
personally, i think that under £1000 standmounts represent the best value for money. The small relatively small enclosure size (and hence production costs) means that more money can be spent on superior drive units. also, dont pressume that a standmount cant fill a big room...
also, when investing this much money for quality standmounts make sure you budget at least £60 to £100 for decent stands!
If it has to be standmounts because of a small room, .[/quote]
personally, i think that under £1000 standmounts represent the best value for money. The small relatively small enclosure size (and hence production costs) means that more money can be spent on superior drive units. also, dont pressume that a standmount cant fill a big room...
also, when investing this much money for quality standmounts make sure you budget at least £60 to £100 for decent stands!
[quote user="gpi"][quote user="Craig M."]
i sit just 10 feet from the speakers and given it was the agility of the proac's i really liked i was thinking that standmounts would sound faster then floorstanders?
i plan on listening to the dynaudio focus 110 and proac tablette ref eight, the dealer where i demo'd the speakers suggested some linn ones (can't remember name) as a mix of the pmc and studio 110 but i didn't have enough time to hear them.
[/quote]
Where did you hear that? I've heard some extremely fast multi-driver floorstanders. 10 feet isn't too close really.[/quote]
i am with Craig on this one - it seems to me that the general consensus is that a standmount at this price point will generally outperform a floorstander in terms of pace and dynamics. again the small enclosure and drive unit size will give the standmount the edge here...
i sit just 10 feet from the speakers and given it was the agility of the proac's i really liked i was thinking that standmounts would sound faster then floorstanders?
i plan on listening to the dynaudio focus 110 and proac tablette ref eight, the dealer where i demo'd the speakers suggested some linn ones (can't remember name) as a mix of the pmc and studio 110 but i didn't have enough time to hear them.
[/quote]
Where did you hear that? I've heard some extremely fast multi-driver floorstanders. 10 feet isn't too close really.[/quote]
i am with Craig on this one - it seems to me that the general consensus is that a standmount at this price point will generally outperform a floorstander in terms of pace and dynamics. again the small enclosure and drive unit size will give the standmount the edge here...
[quote user="ifitsoundsgoodlistentoit"][quote user="gpi"]At this price level I would be looking at floorstanders
If it has to be standmounts because of a small room, .[/quote]
personally, i think that under £1000 standmounts represent the best value for money. The small relatively small enclosure size (and hence production costs) means that more money can be spent on superior drive units. also, dont pressume that a standmount cant fill a big room...
also, when investing this much money for quality standmounts make sure you budget at least £60 to £100 for decent stands![/quote]
Hi, you're preaching to the converted... I love what standmounts can do and am not a big fan of a lot of bass. I just thought, depending on the size of the room, floorstanders could be considered too in this price range, especially when you can compare fine speakers like those in my list to equivalent priced standmounts.
Not sure about your point I've highlighted. Yes in an ideal world we'd only pay for the total material cost of a product's parts but in reality it's not the case. Do you have an example to illustrate this point about a superior driver being used in a standmount against a similarly priced floorstander?
If it has to be standmounts because of a small room, .[/quote]
personally, i think that under £1000 standmounts represent the best value for money. The small relatively small enclosure size (and hence production costs) means that more money can be spent on superior drive units. also, dont pressume that a standmount cant fill a big room...
also, when investing this much money for quality standmounts make sure you budget at least £60 to £100 for decent stands![/quote]
Hi, you're preaching to the converted... I love what standmounts can do and am not a big fan of a lot of bass. I just thought, depending on the size of the room, floorstanders could be considered too in this price range, especially when you can compare fine speakers like those in my list to equivalent priced standmounts.
Not sure about your point I've highlighted. Yes in an ideal world we'd only pay for the total material cost of a product's parts but in reality it's not the case. Do you have an example to illustrate this point about a superior driver being used in a standmount against a similarly priced floorstander?
I know you've set the budget to £1k but I have a recommendation that I think will work perfectly for you. I went into a store to audition the Proac Tab Ref 8 Sigs and SC1s and walked away with the new Spendor SA1s. Absolutely superb. They have more verve than the other Spendors on the market and will probably rather surprise you. The bass is superb, they are the fastest speakers I've ever heard and the midrange and treble is very natural. They're £1.1k but worth it and with the Roksan I think will be a good match.
I promise, you won't be disappointed...
I promise, you won't be disappointed...
thanks for that igglebert, i'm probably going to upgrade cd and amp a little further down the line ( i'm thinking caspian cdp with primare i30 or cyrus 8) so at some point my components will justify expensive speakers. now to try and persuade my local sevenoaks to get some in
won't be easy me thinks.
[quote user="Craig M."]
thanks for that igglebert, i'm probably going to upgrade cd and amp a little further down the line ( i'm thinking caspian cdp with primare i30 or cyrus 8) so at some point my components will justify expensive speakers. now to try and persuade my local sevenoaks to get some in
won't be easy me thinks.
[/quote]
Sounds like the situation I'm in...need to change the amp and then the CDP to suit the speakers. Good luck with it...
thanks for that igglebert, i'm probably going to upgrade cd and amp a little further down the line ( i'm thinking caspian cdp with primare i30 or cyrus 8) so at some point my components will justify expensive speakers. now to try and persuade my local sevenoaks to get some in
[/quote]
Sounds like the situation I'm in...need to change the amp and then the CDP to suit the speakers. Good luck with it...
[quote user="igglebert"]I know you've set the budget to £1k but I have a recommendation that I think will work perfectly for you. I went into a store to audition the Proac Tab Ref 8 Sigs and SC1s and walked away with the new Spendor SA1s. Absolutely superb. They have more verve than the other Spendors on the market and will probably rather surprise you. The bass is superb, they are the fastest speakers I've ever heard and the midrange and treble is very natural. They're £1.1k but worth it and with the Roksan I think will be a good match.
I promise, you won't be disappointed...[/quote]
These new Spendors may set a trend back to sealed box designs. On a cheaper scale I have the JPW Sonatas which have an unfathomable amount of low bass for their size. In a way they seem to produce more and lower bass than my much larger Revolvers, although I prefer a clear mid-range over too much bass (so do my neighbours).
I promise, you won't be disappointed...[/quote]
These new Spendors may set a trend back to sealed box designs. On a cheaper scale I have the JPW Sonatas which have an unfathomable amount of low bass for their size. In a way they seem to produce more and lower bass than my much larger Revolvers, although I prefer a clear mid-range over too much bass (so do my neighbours).
[quote user="fr0g"]Try some MA GS10's too - I loved them and couldnt afford at the time.[/quote]
Indeed, good speakers...
Indeed, good speakers...
How can you guys say that bookshelf speakers will be better? We all know that the bigger the cabinet, the bigger the cone the greater the range of frequencies thus the greater the reproduction. I could never downgrade from floorstanders to bookshelfs - turn them up on a track with a lot of bass/deep sound and they'll blow!
[quote user="davros1984"]
How can you guys say that bookshelf speakers will be better? We all know that the bigger the cabinet, the bigger the cone the greater the range of frequencies thus the greater the reproduction. I could never downgrade from floorstanders to bookshelfs - turn them up on a track with a lot of bass/deep sound and they'll blow!
[/quote]Well I'm going to have to call you on this... the size of the cone doesn't really affect frequence range per se. Size does aid in the reproduction of low end. Cone rigidity and material coupled with size dictates the resonance frequency and the possible range, bigger cones having the most restricted ranges of all. Are you saying bigger cabinets allow for more cones? A 3-way design using a midwoofer, tweeter and woofer in order to have a wider range? Most floorstanders use the same drivers as their little brothers, the increased volume giving a minor low-end extension and slightly different dynamics.
Secondly, bookshelves will blow on bassy tracks??? I'm sorry but that's a little spurious. You're assuming speakers will attempt to produce bass lower than they are capable of? Somehow straining themselves to failure??
I'm no speaker expert but I think you're long on emotion and short on technical understanding.
Incidentally some of the most fantastic speakers in creation are bookshelves.
How can you guys say that bookshelf speakers will be better? We all know that the bigger the cabinet, the bigger the cone the greater the range of frequencies thus the greater the reproduction. I could never downgrade from floorstanders to bookshelfs - turn them up on a track with a lot of bass/deep sound and they'll blow!
[/quote]Well I'm going to have to call you on this... the size of the cone doesn't really affect frequence range per se. Size does aid in the reproduction of low end. Cone rigidity and material coupled with size dictates the resonance frequency and the possible range, bigger cones having the most restricted ranges of all. Are you saying bigger cabinets allow for more cones? A 3-way design using a midwoofer, tweeter and woofer in order to have a wider range? Most floorstanders use the same drivers as their little brothers, the increased volume giving a minor low-end extension and slightly different dynamics.
Secondly, bookshelves will blow on bassy tracks??? I'm sorry but that's a little spurious. You're assuming speakers will attempt to produce bass lower than they are capable of? Somehow straining themselves to failure??
I'm no speaker expert but I think you're long on emotion and short on technical understanding.
Incidentally some of the most fantastic speakers in creation are bookshelves.
[quote user="raypalmer"][quote user="davros1984"]
How can you guys say that bookshelf speakers will be better? We all know that the bigger the cabinet, the bigger the cone the greater the range of frequencies thus the greater the reproduction. I could never downgrade from floorstanders to bookshelfs - turn them up on a track with a lot of bass/deep sound and they'll blow!
[/quote]Well I'm going to have to call you on this... the size of the cone doesn't really affect frequence range per se. Size does aid in the reproduction of low end. Cone rigidity and material coupled with size dictates the resonance frequency and the possible range, bigger cones having the most restricted ranges of all. Are you saying bigger cabinets allow for more cones? A 3-way design using a midwoofer, tweeter and woofer in order to have a wider range? Most floorstanders use the same drivers as their little brothers, the increased volume giving a minor low-end extension and slightly different dynamics.
Secondly, bookshelves will blow on bassy tracks??? I'm sorry but that's a little spurious. You're assuming speakers will attempt to produce bass lower than they are capable of? Somehow straining themselves to failure??
I'm no speaker expert but I think you're long on emotion and short on technical understanding.
Incidentally some of the most fantastic speakers in creation are bookshelves.[/quote]
True, a lot of folk don't realise this. In fact, putting the same driver array into a much larger enclosure creates many more problems for the speaker designer. The beliefs about how bookshelf speakers are not able to fill a large room and not capable of producing low frequencies are still around it seems.
How can you guys say that bookshelf speakers will be better? We all know that the bigger the cabinet, the bigger the cone the greater the range of frequencies thus the greater the reproduction. I could never downgrade from floorstanders to bookshelfs - turn them up on a track with a lot of bass/deep sound and they'll blow!
[/quote]Well I'm going to have to call you on this... the size of the cone doesn't really affect frequence range per se. Size does aid in the reproduction of low end. Cone rigidity and material coupled with size dictates the resonance frequency and the possible range, bigger cones having the most restricted ranges of all. Are you saying bigger cabinets allow for more cones? A 3-way design using a midwoofer, tweeter and woofer in order to have a wider range? Most floorstanders use the same drivers as their little brothers, the increased volume giving a minor low-end extension and slightly different dynamics.
Secondly, bookshelves will blow on bassy tracks??? I'm sorry but that's a little spurious. You're assuming speakers will attempt to produce bass lower than they are capable of? Somehow straining themselves to failure??
I'm no speaker expert but I think you're long on emotion and short on technical understanding.
Incidentally some of the most fantastic speakers in creation are bookshelves.[/quote]
True, a lot of folk don't realise this. In fact, putting the same driver array into a much larger enclosure creates many more problems for the speaker designer. The beliefs about how bookshelf speakers are not able to fill a large room and not capable of producing low frequencies are still around it seems.
To move air effectively a cone has to be either large or capable of long excursion as is the trend at the moment with making everything smaller/slimmer. That brings its own problems. I'm no speaker expert either but have found over the years I generally prefer paper cones of medium size ala proac in standmount form but I have heard a number of speakers I like that deviate from that.
Mr Duncan, I have Spendors SA1 and PMC DB1i on loan at home (had them since friday but unfortunately not much time due to work). The Spendors are without their nice stands, they are busy somewhere else, but my own should be suitable without compromise. Both follow that small cone trend but use different principles to achieve their respective 'presentations'. I'll start a thread on them on tuesday or so when they have to go back.
Mr Duncan, I have Spendors SA1 and PMC DB1i on loan at home (had them since friday but unfortunately not much time due to work). The Spendors are without their nice stands, they are busy somewhere else, but my own should be suitable without compromise. Both follow that small cone trend but use different principles to achieve their respective 'presentations'. I'll start a thread on them on tuesday or so when they have to go back.
[quote user="drummerman"]
To move air effectively a cone has to be either large or capable of long excursion as is the trend at the moment with making everything smaller/slimmer. That brings its own problems. I'm no speaker expert either but have found over the years I generally prefer paper cones of medium size ala proac in standmount form but I have heard a number of speakers I like that deviate from that.
Mr Duncan, I have Spendors SA1 and PMC DB1i on loan at home (had them since friday but unfortunately not much time due to work). The Spendors are without their nice stands, they are busy somewhere else, but my own should be suitable without compromise. Both follow that small cone trend but use different principles to achieve their respective 'presentations'. I'll start a thread on them on tuesday or so when they have to go back.
[/quote]
Sounds good. What amp and CDP are you using? What's your listening room size?
To move air effectively a cone has to be either large or capable of long excursion as is the trend at the moment with making everything smaller/slimmer. That brings its own problems. I'm no speaker expert either but have found over the years I generally prefer paper cones of medium size ala proac in standmount form but I have heard a number of speakers I like that deviate from that.
Mr Duncan, I have Spendors SA1 and PMC DB1i on loan at home (had them since friday but unfortunately not much time due to work). The Spendors are without their nice stands, they are busy somewhere else, but my own should be suitable without compromise. Both follow that small cone trend but use different principles to achieve their respective 'presentations'. I'll start a thread on them on tuesday or so when they have to go back.
[/quote]
Sounds good. What amp and CDP are you using? What's your listening room size?
You are like a heat seaking missile. Just mention Spendor SA1 and you appear
.
Amplifiers are flying mole and cyrus, perhaps also a phonosophie if I get my hands on it today, cdp is a psx'd cyrus and my room is approx 4 x 5m
Amplifiers are flying mole and cyrus, perhaps also a phonosophie if I get my hands on it today, cdp is a psx'd cyrus and my room is approx 4 x 5m
[quote user="drummerman"]
You are like a heat seaking missile. Just mention Spendor SA1 and you appear
.
[/quote]
...you'd be the same if you were stuck in a room with padded walls, floor and ceiling... ;-)
You are like a heat seaking missile. Just mention Spendor SA1 and you appear
[/quote]
...you'd be the same if you were stuck in a room with padded walls, floor and ceiling... ;-)
Yes, I've had smaller speakers (bookshelfs) in the past and after heavy use the cones couldn't cope anymore and eventually blew, this is why I switched to floorstanders as bigger cones and felt they would stand up to the challenge. Funnily enough tho, the tweeters on my floorstanders have pretty much died so I am in the process of looking at an upgrade - Dynaudio Audience 62 was recommended to me, however I am now considering Wharfedale Diamonds 9.6's as they have 8" cones (compared to the audience 62's - 6.5").
I've listened to both high-end smaller speakers and average large speakers, I agree the smaller high-end sounds tighter, have greater detail but to me they sound too robotic as they lack the real punchy/rough noise that say a 15" cone in a cabinet 4 foot by 3 foot would generate (in conjunction with monitors). I have sat by one of these, it was awesome.
Yes, I'm emotional but I like to feel music as well as hear it and that is what I choose speakers on.
I've listened to both high-end smaller speakers and average large speakers, I agree the smaller high-end sounds tighter, have greater detail but to me they sound too robotic as they lack the real punchy/rough noise that say a 15" cone in a cabinet 4 foot by 3 foot would generate (in conjunction with monitors). I have sat by one of these, it was awesome.
Yes, I'm emotional but I like to feel music as well as hear it and that is what I choose speakers on.
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