XLR vs RCA vs Optical, Balanced vs Unbalanced interconnects

[L00k_C]

The Harman amp and CDP the OP mentions both have XLR connections.

Do you know if they are TRUE balanced? (HK990 & HD990) :doh:

Presumably you have the owners manual, or can at least download it. It should tell you what connections are possible.

Failing that, I would drop the manufacturer an email.

Will do... just being a bid lazy I know :beer:

 

[andyjm]

Thanks Guys...

Going futther I read somewhere that xlr would add noise since the signal will pass throuhb extra circuity while RCA will not! Your views pls...

I think this statement is BS but please post link for reference. AFAIK balanced technology means you basically have two identical amps running in opposite phase to one another in order to eliminate common noise, not to generate it. so basically the signal doesn't flow through more circuitry then it would through an unbalanced electronics.

Most audio electronics is 'unbalanced' internally, to use balanced connections some form of conversion needs to take place on the output from single ended to balanced, and on the input from balanced back to single ended again. Back in the day, this was achieved using transformers, which worked well, but took up space and were expensive. These days the cheap and easy solution are differential line drivers and receivers which take the unbalanced signal and generate a balanced output (and the same in reverse)

http://www.datasheetdir.com/DRV135+Audio-Amplifiers

So in answer to your point, unless the whole topology of the device is balanced thoughout (which is rare) then there are more steps in the chain using balanced connections than using standard single ended connections.

 

[the record spot]

The Harman Kardon site will tell you if you do a search. It took me about 30 seconds to get the right page.

 

[Crossie]

I use these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130743323502?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

(Neutrik plugs and Van Damme cable)

very well made and not expensive.

 

[Overdose]

I use these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130743323502?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

(Neutrik plugs and Van Damme cable)

very well made and not expensive.

Just the ticket!

 

[L00k_C]

I use these:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130743323502?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

(Neutrik plugs and Van Damme cable)

very well made and not expensive.

Thanks...For RCA?

 

[p_m_brown]

Oh god, not another thread filled up with comments from cloth eared scientists...

 

[andyjm]

Oh god, not another thread filled up with comments from cloth eared scientists...

Very true.

It was certainly better on this forum when no one knew what they were talking about. These damn engineers have ruined all our fun.

 

[Overdose]

Oh god, not another thread filled up with comments from cloth eared scientists...

Ironic, in that it's 'cloth eared scientists' and engineers that have enabled you to listen to the sounds from your hifi in the first place.

 

[CnoEvil]

Oh god, not another thread filled up with comments from cloth eared scientists...

Ironic, in that it's 'cloth eared scientists' and engineers that have enabled you to listen to the sounds from your hifi in the first place.

.....and many of those same scientists and engineers make sure that there is a full complement of expensive cables connected to their kit, when wanting to get the most out of their systems at shows.

 

[Overdose]

Oh god, not another thread filled up with comments from cloth eared scientists...

Ironic, in that it's 'cloth eared scientists' and engineers that have enabled you to listen to the sounds from your hifi in the first place.

.....and many of those same scientists and engineers make sure that there is a full complement of expensive cables connected to their kit, when wanting to get the most out of their systems at shows.

I would imagine not many at all.

 

[MUSICRAFT]

Hi L00k_C

Whichever type of cable you decide on then RF Potts in Derby are also worth bearing in mind. They also custom build almost any configuartion type and their cables cost little money. Fwiw, this is where i get most of my interconnect cables.

All the best

Rick @ Musicraft

 

[Crossie]

I use these RCS interconnects, all lengths available:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/0-5m-Neutrik-Van-damme-Phono-Hi-Fi-Interconnect-/130743333762?pt=UK_Computing_Sound_Vision_Audio_Cables_Adapters&hash=item1e70e8f382

as before good quality and great VFM.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

A balanced cable configuration typically uses a twisted pair for two pins and the shield for ground.

shield doesn't need to be grounded. a third wire may link ground pins.

The multi stranded construction shown in the link does not lend itself to balanced construction and there also appears to be no shield for grounding.

the picture is so unclear that it's hard to tell 100% sure if there are two or just one silver signal carrier (it may be the second silver wire wasn't unsheathed and it's covering between paper filling). and as per my point just above , the grounding is the copper wire. so by all means this cable can easily be balanced despite your claims. but you may be correct as well.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Most audio electronics is 'unbalanced' internally, to use balanced connections some form of conversion needs to take place on the output from single ended to balanced, and on the input from balanced back to single ended again. Back in the day, this was achieved using transformers, which worked well, but took up space and were expensive. These days the cheap and easy solution are differential line drivers and receivers which take the unbalanced signal and generate a balanced output (and the same in reverse)

all cool. but what you're describing is not really balanced electronics. as been pointed out correctly earlier in the thread there's no point using symmetrical interconnects in conjunction with unbalanced electronics.

So in answer to your point, unless the whole topology of the device is balanced thoughout (which is rare) then there are more steps in the chain using balanced connections than using standard single ended connections.

most definitely rarer then XLR outs and ins at the back of hi-fi equipment. but not uncommon.

 

[Al ears]

Most audio electronics is 'unbalanced' internally, to use balanced connections some form of conversion needs to take place on the output from single ended to balanced, and on the input from balanced back to single ended again. Back in the day, this was achieved using transformers, which worked well, but took up space and were expensive. These days the cheap and easy solution are differential line drivers and receivers which take the unbalanced signal and generate a balanced output (and the same in reverse)

all cool. but what you're describing is not really balanced electronics. as been pointed out correctly earlier in the thread there's no point using symmetrical interconnects in conjunction with unbalanced electronics.

So in answer to your point, unless the whole topology of the device is balanced thoughout (which is rare) then there are more steps in the chain using balanced connections than using standard single ended connections.

most definitely rarer then XLR outs and ins at the back of hi-fi equipment. but not uncommon.

Fret ye not. In a system that cost less than your average footballers take-home wage, and with cable runs of less than a hundred yards I'd suggest you're better off sticking with a simple RCA phono connection (whether or not your system is 'balanced throughout'.

Who's is???

 

[Overdose]

A balanced cable configuration typically uses a twisted pair for two pins and the shield for ground.

shield doesn't need to be grounded. a third wire may link ground pins.

The multi stranded construction shown in the link does not lend itself to balanced construction and there also appears to be no shield for grounding.

the picture is so unclear that it's hard to tell 100% sure if there are two or just one silver signal carrier (it may be the second silver wire wasn't unsheathed and it's covering between paper filling). and as per my point just above , the grounding is the copper wire. so by all means this cable can easily be balanced despite your claims. but you may be correct as well.

A third wire could link the ground pins, but what for? That would not be a typical balanced cable configuration. The shield needs to be grounded, or it doesn't work as a shield.

There is not just one carrier, as per the sales bumf, the cable is of a Litz construction and carries several insulated conductors, not one or two, but these are terminated as one. BTW, it's not my claims, but how the item is described by the seller. What they are describing is an XLR terminated multistrand cable and they do not claim to be balanced.

 

[Electro]

Fret ye not. In a system that cost less than your average footballers take-home wage, and with cable runs of less than a hundred yards I'd suggest you're better off sticking with a simple RCA phono connection (whether or not your system is 'balanced throughout'.

Who's is???

Mine

 

[Al ears]

Fret ye not. In a system that cost less than your average footballers take-home wage, and with cable runs of less than a hundred yards I'd suggest you're better off sticking with a simple RCA phono connection (whether or not your system is 'balanced throughout'.

Who's is???

Mine

There's always one!

If your system is designed to be balanced from source to final output from amp (and yoiu can hear a difference when it is not) then whoopy doo!

Most peoples systems are so 'mix-and-match' they lose them benefit of a balanced system thus interconnects become pretty much irrelevent.

 

[andyjm]

Most audio electronics is 'unbalanced' internally, to use balanced connections some form of conversion needs to take place on the output from single ended to balanced, and on the input from balanced back to single ended again. Back in the day, this was achieved using transformers, which worked well, but took up space and were expensive. These days the cheap and easy solution are differential line drivers and receivers which take the unbalanced signal and generate a balanced output (and the same in reverse)

all cool. but what you're describing is not really balanced electronics. as been pointed out correctly earlier in the thread there's no point using symmetrical interconnects in conjunction with unbalanced electronics.

While you are right for domestic set ups, all professional systems (stage, studio) work as I describe. Single ended electronics with balanced line drivers and receivers - the point is to minimise line interference and crosstalk. Not relevant for home installations.

 

[andyjm]

Oh god, not another thread filled up with comments from cloth eared scientists...

Ironic, in that it's 'cloth eared scientists' and engineers that have enabled you to listen to the sounds from your hifi in the first place.

.....and many of those same scientists and engineers make sure that there is a full complement of expensive cables connected to their kit, when wanting to get the most out of their systems at shows.

What has the price of interconnects got to with anything?

 

[jcbrum]

Agreed, - it doesn't seem to have much to do with the thread topic.

JC

 

[Electro]

Fret ye not. In a system that cost less than your average footballers take-home wage, and with cable runs of less than a hundred yards I'd suggest you're better off sticking with a simple RCA phono connection (whether or not your system is 'balanced throughout'.

Who's is???

Mine

There's always one!

If your system is designed to be balanced from source to final output from amp (and yoiu can hear a difference when it is not) then whoopy doo!

Most peoples systems are so 'mix-and-match' they lose them benefit of a balanced system thus interconnects become pretty much irrelevent.

It is and I can and I am very happy about it

What you say is very true and a mix and match of balanced and unbalanced equipment does make the use of balanced XLR interconnects unnecessary but I must say I would still use XLR interconnects mainly because of the superior quality and security of most XLR plugs and sockets .

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

A third wire could link the ground pins, but what for? That would not be a typical balanced cable configuration. The shield needs to be grounded, or it doesn't work as a shield.

you don't need a shield in case of symmetrical interconnects. the advantage of such construction is that if there's any noise picked up along the way it'll be cancelled out. in fact you don't need shielding in case of asymmetrical interconnects too but in such an instance you don't get benefits of RFI rejection.

 

[Overdose]

A third wire could link the ground pins, but what for? That would not be a typical balanced cable configuration. The shield needs to be grounded, or it doesn't work as a shield.

you don't need a shield in case of symmetrical interconnects. the advantage of such construction is that if there's any noise picked up along the way it'll be cancelled out. in fact you don't need shielding in case of asymmetrical interconnects too but in such an instance you don't get benefits of RFI rejection.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_audio

Typical balanced configuration explained here, note the use of the shielding braid. Feel free to submit your corrections to the Wiki with your own technical know how.