Wiim Ultra connections - Internal or external DAC

[TK421]

Morning all,

Got myself a Wiim Ultra over the weekend and am wondering about the DAC situation.
As I understand it, dependent on which output you use, it uses either the internal DAC or the external one/the on in the amp.
Is this correct and if so, which is best? The amp's DAC or the Wiim's DAC?

 

[Al ears]

Morning all,

Got myself a Wiim Ultra over the weekend and am wondering about the DAC situation.
As I understand it, dependent on which output you use, it uses either the internal DAC or the external one/the on in the amp.
Is this correct and if so, which is best? The amp's DAC or the Wiim's DAC?

I guess you are really the only one that can answer that.
Try both and see which you prefer.

 

[TK421]

I guess you are really the only one that can answer that.
Try both and see which you prefer.

I guess I didn't phrase that properly. Which output uses the internal DAC and which output uses the amp's DAC?

 

[RTHerringbone]

Just use the optical out or USB to bypass the internal DAC on the Ultra.

 

[Al ears]

I guess I didn't phrase that properly. Which output uses the internal DAC and which output uses the amp's DAC?

Ah, I see, anything connected to the analogue RCA outputs will obviously use the Wiim internal DAC.

 

[PieterG]

The Ultra has a higher end chip, so you'll probably want to use that as your first DAC option. In this case you send its RCA out to your amp.
I would do an A/B comparison with a digital out from the WiiM to the amp, then decide which sounds best and keep the setup you prefer. When you use the digital out, turn the amp volume down and set WiiM output volume to fixed for best signal.

 

[TK421]

I was convinced by Youtube to try the SMSL PO100PRO inbetween the Wiim Ultra and my Cambridge CXA81. Anybody have experience with this?

 

[RTHerringbone]

I absolutely wouldn't bother. I would try the RCA connection to your amp and then switch to optical / USB to see if you can hear a difference. It's pretty likely you won't, so then just go with whichever of those two options has the nicest cable! Simple as that. You won't need another box in the chain, and certainly not a £55 one.

 

[nopiano]

I was convinced by Youtube to try the SMSL PO100PRO inbetween the Wiim Ultra and my Cambridge CXA81. Anybody have experience with this?

Thousands like you have done the same. I’m not sure about budget miracles, but I do read a Wiim group on Facebook where many swear by this tweak, and others can’t see the point.

As before, you’re in a great position to experiment. Fish, chicken, or beef? Your choice! 😂

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

"Fish, chicken, or beef? Your choice! 😂"

I feel like I'm sitting at the front of the plane!

 

[TK421]

I absolutely wouldn't bother. I would try the RCA connection to your amp and then switch to optical / USB to see if you can hear a difference. It's pretty likely you won't, so then just go with whichever of those two options has the nicest cable! Simple as that. You won't need another box in the chain, and certainly not a £55 one.

I need to learn how to trust my own judgement instead of being influenced by the idea that something different will be better than what I already have.

 

[TK421]

I absolutely wouldn't bother. I would try the RCA connection to your amp and then switch to optical / USB to see if you can hear a difference. It's pretty likely you won't, so then just go with whichever of those two options has the nicest cable! Simple as that. You won't need another box in the chain, and certainly not a £55 one.

I'll try this and see if I can hear a difference. Chances are that, with my ears, I won't..

 

[RTHerringbone]

I need to learn how to trust my own judgement instead of being influenced by the idea that something different will be better than what I already have.

I suspect many of us are guilty of it (I certainly am!) but I'd just see how things sound with your current amp and unless you are *sure* you're missing something, then save yourself a few quid.

 

[PieterG]

I was convinced by Youtube to try the SMSL PO100PRO inbetween the Wiim Ultra and my Cambridge CXA81. Anybody have experience with this?

This is how i set things up. I got a (budget, discounted) Wiim Pro specifically for the streaming part, and send its optical out into a DAC, which then goes into the analog input of the amplifier.

It sounds like you now have 3 DAC options: the Wiim, the SMSL and your amp. Have fun! If you happen to decide that the SMSL is not the best one, then i guess you could have saved some money and left it out...

 

[Witterings]

Get yourself a Chord Qutest 😀

I was convinced by Youtube to try the SMSL PO100PRO inbetween the Wiim Ultra and my Cambridge CXA81. Anybody have experience with this?

I believe the argument for this is the "clock" in the SMSL PO100 Pro is superior and gives the option of passing that duty over from the WiiM ..... I certainly found there was a difference using USB out into my Qutest which does the same thing but passes it to the Qutest, whether it'd be the same with the 100Pro into your Cambridge amp I don't know ... you'd have to use the USB connection but you probably figured that out.
There is a difference but it wasn't night & day but once you've noticed it you don't really want to go back.

I do use PO100 Pro but for a completely different purpose to get USB out from my PC and it certainly works well but it's not my critical listening area.

 

[nopiano]

I need to learn how to trust my own judgement instead of being influenced by the idea that something different will be better than what I already have.

Indeed, it’s surprisingly difficult when we’ve invested in some kit - both emotionally and financially in most cases. We instinctively listen for something ‘new’, that we didn’t recall previously. But we are easily fooled, even by ourselves, because we know that we’ve added the new device.

That’s before we get into tricky issues like level matching.

Have fun, and don’t worry if you like some combination you didn’t expect to!

 

[Witterings]

Fish, chicken, or beef? Your choice! 😂

What no Lamb 🤣

 

[TK421]

I tried the SMSL (USB from the Wiim Ultra to the SMSL and then optical to the amp) and I honestly found that the RCA out direct to tha amp sounded better.

 

[PieterG]

I tried the SMSL (USB from the Wiim Ultra to the SMSL and then optical to the amp) and I honestly found that the RCA out direct to tha amp sounded better.

That's why comparisons are good. You can stick with what sounds best, or vary input/output combinations as you like. However, i'm not sure you tried the optimal signal path.

To use the SMSL you use a digital output from the Ultra - which you did. Personally, i would have chosen spdif over usb, because i'm not sure if the usb output is equal to the others. (It might be, i honestly don't know. It's listed as 24/192 but there may be more to it.)

Also worth double-checking: did you send a full output signal into your SMSL? The Ultra should be set to Fixed Volume Output (device settings in the app). If there is any digital volume control or EQ applied before the signal enters your DAC, your test is theoretically inaccurate.

None of this might matter to your ears, but i thought i'd point it out. I've been down this path too ... 🙂

 

[TK421]

That's why comparisons are good. You can stick with what sounds best, or vary input/output combinations as you like. However, i'm not sure you tried the optimal signal path.

To use the SMSL you use a digital output from the Ultra - which you did. Personally, i would have chosen spdif over usb, because i'm not sure if the usb output is equal to the others. (It might be, i honestly don't know. It's listed as 24/192 but there may be more to it.)

Also worth double-checking: did you send a full output signal into your SMSL? The Ultra should be set to Fixed Volume Output (device settings in the app). If there is any digital volume control or EQ applied before the signal enters your DAC, your test is theoretically inaccurate.

None of this might matter to your ears, but i thought i'd point it out. I've been down this path too ... 🙂

When you say spdif from the Ultra to the SMSL, you mean optical? Also, what output do you then use? Coaxial?

 

[PieterG]

When you say spdif from the Ultra to the SMSL, you mean optical? Also, what output do you then use? Coaxial?

Indeed. Optical or coaxial.
My understanding is that theoretically optical is supposed to be cleaner because it doesn't pick up interference from nearby electromagnetic sources, but i think it's only really a thing to consider if you have a coaxial cable in use and hear a hum or noise.

 

[Witterings]

That's why comparisons are good. You can stick with what sounds best, or vary input/output combinations as you like. However, i'm not sure you tried the optimal signal path.

To use the SMSL you use a digital output from the Ultra - which you did. Personally, i would have chosen spdif over usb, because i'm not sure if the usb output is equal to the others. (It might be, i honestly don't know. It's listed as 24/192 but there may be more to it.)

Also worth double-checking: did you send a full output signal into your SMSL? The Ultra should be set to Fixed Volume Output (device settings in the app). If there is any digital volume control or EQ applied before the signal enters your DAC, your test is theoretically inaccurate.

None of this might matter to your ears, but i thought i'd point it out. I've been down this path too ... 🙂

I believe using anything but USB out from the Ultra you'll be using it's clock which totally defeats adding to the something else into the chain with to SMSL as the whole purpose is to use it's clock instead.

More than happy to be corrected if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm right.

 

[TK421]

I believe using anything but USB out from the Ultra you'll be using it's clock which totally defeats adding to the something else into the chain with to SMSL as the whole purpose is to use it's clock instead.

More than happy to be corrected if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure I'm right

I've just noticed that the only Intput on the SMSL is the USB and the other connections (Coaxial, HDMI and Optical) are all Outputs.

 

[Jasonovich]

I've just noticed that the only Intput on the SMSL is the USB and the other connections (Coaxial, HDMI and Optical) are all Outputs.

Apologies in advance, I suspect I'm having a dense moment 😏 but why can't you use your spdif or USB output on the Ultra to connect directly to external DAC?
Why the need for SMSL converter?

Having the SMSL middleman isn't going to improve the sound.

 

[TK421]

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Apologies in advance, I suspect I'm having a dense moment 😏 but why can't you use your spdif or USB output on the Ultra to connect directly to external DAC?
Why the need for SMSL converter?

Having the SMSL middleman isn't going to improve the sound.

I'm lead to believe that the SMSL has a better clocking circuit than the Ultra.