Which Subwoofer below 2500 EUR? Velodyne, SVS, B&W, Dali, what else?

[prutten]

Dear fellow forum-members,

Who can offer me some advice on what you would consider the best sub for less than 2500 EUR (~2000 GBP / 3000 USD) at this moment? Here is what I am looking for:

- I listen to 50% music, 50% movies; but music is probably more important to me in terms of quality than movies.

- A clear dream is to reproduce some of the same room lock that a 32-foot organ pipe is able to produce, e.g., in Bach's Toccata in D or the Organ Symphony by Saint Saens. I am assuming producing some seriously low frequencies at decent SPL will be needed to do this

- My room is 5m X 12m X 2.5m, but it is connected through an open hallway to the rest of my house (firstly a second sizable room of 6mX5m); and there is a likelihood that I move in a year to a bigger place, so having a little bit of ability to spare to create room lock might be beneficial

- I am unclear whether I need built-in EQ

- Current system is the NAD c390dd, Sonus Faber Cremona Auditor M, what I am considering a quite musical system. The Sonus Faber already has quite a surprising amount of bass BTW - if not at the lowest frequency ranges (Sonus Faber itself claims down to 50Hz, which I am inclined to believe). The NAD c390dd also has a sub-out, so I am not dependent on speaker-level inputs.

I have been able to listen to Velodyne SPL 12 (now also known as the Velodyne Optimum 12) - it sounded great. But I am wondering what other options are like:

- Dali P10-DSS or the Mentor Subwoofer

- B&W PV1D or the ASW 10cm

- SVS PB13-Ultra

- REL R528-E or perhaps the G2

- Others?

Of course - I know that some of the more expensive subwoofers might very well able to do this, but my budget does not reach that far unfortunately.

Also, having listened to a few subs, I find it harder to make comparisons than with regular speakers, so any pointers what you listen to and how you test a sub's capabilities in practice would be very helpful as well.

Thanks for any ideas that you have to offer!

Paul

 

[ellisdj]

http://www.kreiselsound.com/subDXD12012.php

think my money would go here but you will need Seperate eq on top worth the extra

 

[CnoEvil]

Velodyne make great Subs, especially the SPL Ultra and DD Series.

I have also a lot of time for Paradigm Subs......The Seismic 110 is a mighty little Sub.

 

[oldric_naubhoff]

Who can offer me some advice on what you would consider the best sub for less than 2500 EUR (~2000 GBP / 3000 USD) at this moment? Here is what I am looking for:

- I listen to 50% music, 50% movies; but music is probably more important to me in terms of quality than movies.

- A clear dream is to reproduce some of the same room lock that a 32-foot organ pipe is able to produce, e.g., in Bach's Toccata in D or the Organ Symphony by Saint Saens. I am assuming producing some seriously low frequencies at decent SPL will be needed to do this

many would say your conditions are impossible to meet at this price point but they don't know of Rythmic Audio from USA. they produce servo controlled subs that are very good. and they are very good not for the money, they are very good. period.

I'd go for a F12 Signature and treat myself for the change . here's freq response of the sub: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F12SE_specs.html as you can see the response is flat and extended; goes strong well below 20Hz. and this is from a 12' driver in a sealed enclosure (BTW how many manufacturers have you seeen provide measurements of their product :? ). this is benefit of a servo controlled design. another being reduced interference from the back wave trapped within enclosure meaning - fast and accurate bass. few manufacturers of subs pay attention to this problem.

you can also read some feedback from customers or some reviews available on the internet. I can asure you; you won't find a bad word on those subs. but of course the decision is up to you.

 

[MattSPL]

Your going to need a huge sub or subs to pressurise that large room of yours.

My room is about 4x5 meters. I have had a JL audio F112 in this room and it did an excellent job, easily pressurising the room and shaking objects violently if needed. Unfortunately I don't have the JL sub anymore. This sub could play easily down to 16hz, then rolled off quickly below that, with slight output still available at 12.5hz.

I now use a Velodyne DD12. This also pressurises the room adequately, but not with the same force as the JL audio. Remember these are both high end 12 inch subs in a 4.5x5 meter room, and your looking to fill a MUCH larger space.
The built in EQ on the Velodyne is the best I have used on any sub. Its very quick to get a good result, then over a couple of weeks of listening and fine tuning, you are able to get a perfect integration with the speakers and at the same time tweak the sub so it doesn't excite any room modes.
The Velodyne will also play down to 12.5hz.
Both the JL audio and Velodyne use a microphone to measure room response, and the Velodyne connects to your tv to show you whats happening in the form of a graph.

The software used in the Velodyne DD subs can be bought in a seperate box in the form of an SMS-1. This can be used with other subs.
I feel the perfect sub setup would be a JL audio Fathom paired with a Velodyne SMS-1. The JL audio subs have a built in automatic room EQ which is excellent, but it doesn't quite give the user tweakability of the Velodyne DD subs.

Another thing to note, the JL Audio subs bass quality and speed is the best I have heard. I had my F112 paired with ATC scm50asl's and they were a perfect match.

Of those subs you mention, the SVS are going to give the most room filling ability for your money, but I still think your going ot need 2 large subs for that room, or at least one 18 inch sub.

 

[jimbo20004000]

The best sub at this price in my opinion is the PMC TLE1. None of the other subs mentioned will match this for speed, low distortion and high SPL.

I have tried most of them over the years, as i used to work in the audio industry.

All PMC speakers use transmission line technology for the lowest distortion bass, at highest SPL levels in smaller enclosures than would normally be required if using bass reflex, sealed, or isobarick designs etc.

They are also not so fussy on room location. You get less null areas around the room, and more consistent bass levels in the room. I have measured this.

http://www.pmc-speakers.com/products/consumer/subwoofers/tle1

Ideally if you can stretch to the PMC SB100, to even better match your room size.

But this is a passive sub, and so requires an external mono amp, and assumes you have a LF crossover or sub output from your preamp/processor or Bluray/media player.)

They use the PMC SB100 in small mastering room music/movie studios to partner AML2 nearfield, or IB2S midfield speakers.

I am lucky enough to own what is in my opinion the best sub available at any price, the PMC XB3. This the largest sub ever made for professional and high end audiophile/home cinema use. Used by studios around the world. If its good enough for them to master the music/movies, then its good enough for me!

Room acoustics makes a huge difference. So if you have a nice thick rug/carpoet, and thick curtains etc, it makes a huge difference to the sound.

 

[TrevC]

Buy this and pocket the difference. http://www.bkelec.com/hifi/Sub_Woofers/monolith-df.htm

 

[alienmango]

SVS is the best you listed. Get the ultra for your room.

Alternately several monoliths would give you better spl but not reach as low.

Personally I would get one of these: http://www.parts-express.com/tc-sounds-lms-ultra-5400-18-dvc-subwoofer--293-666 Don't know where your from but europe under £1000 shipped.

A minidsp and mic: around £100-200

A suitable amp. Here's the hard part, dayton do a 1000w rms amplifier for around £400 shipped to the UK. But you really need more power, depends how much you want to turn it up...... You could buy a pro amp and switch out the fan for a silent model. Ths would be the cheapest an best option IMO. The behringer inuke6000 would be perfect. The DSP version would replace the need for a minidsp.

Or buy the minidsp line PWR-DSP1 amp, which is $999, not sure how much shipped to the UK. It will do 2400w rms.

Then just build a box, you can get away with 2.5 cubic feet at a minimum. You could pay a carpenter to do this. Use a MINIMUM of 25mm mdf, heavily braced. Needs to be bomb proof, this sub is a monster,.

Will cost £1600-£2400 depending on how much you pay for an amp/the box to be built. Will destroy any commercial subwoofer in sound quality/extension/spl.

This is another good option if you can get one shipped. http://www.rythmikaudio.com/F25.html