Whats better. A smaller speaker pushed or a higher end speaker with low volume?

[tone]

So in trying to narrow down variables in buying a speakers I am conflicted a bit in the size to buy.

I know that speakers sound better pushed but would it be better to get a floor standing unit with much better sound reproduction capabilities with more woofers and bigger chassis and have it turned lower or get a good bookshelf that can be pushed more?

 

[chebby]

I know that speakers sound better pushed but would it be better to get a floor standing unit with much better sound reproduction capabilities with more woofers and bigger chassis and have it turned lower or get a good bookshelf that can be pushed more?

We are being asked to go along with a couple of premises here that are far from universally true.

 

[tone]

ok instead of being a smart a$$ , explain why it is not that way so I can learn

If you offered an explanation I would assume that your motive was to assist.

By pointing out what you think is just wrong your motive as anything but helpful and is quite rude.

I may not know much about audio, but I do know manners

thank you

 

[fr0g]

ok instead of being a smart a$$ , explain why it is not that way so I can learn

If you offered an explanation I would assume that your motive was to assist.

By pointing out what you think is just wrong your motive as anything but helpful and is quite rude.

I may not know much about audio, but I do know manners

thank you

"smart a$$"

Hmm, I did have an opinion, for some reason now, I can't be bothered giving it. Wonder why?

 

[tone]

Oh I'm so sorry

That will teach me for sure

Brother

More internet rudeness

 

[craig84]

i have to agree with the OP and say that the reply offered was far from helpful and was put there for a reaction and not to offer any assistance whatsoever.

On topic -i have never heard that a speaker being driven to limits was a good thing. I used to have a pair of standmount B&W 686's, they were clear and crisp but that was about it. At just past what i would call medium volume they couldnt deliver the lows that i want and at low listening levels they were the same. Switch to my floorstanders and everything i want is there, at low volume and at completely ASBO volumes. Im sure there are audiophile words to describe what i mean but for big, airy sound at low and high volumes floorstanders are for me. This is my opiniom though and obviously some people love standmounts

Craig

 

[altruistic.lemon]

So in trying to narrow down variables in buying a speakers I am conflicted a bit in the size to buy.

I know that speakers sound better pushed but would it be better to get a floor standing unit with much better sound reproduction capabilities with more woofers and bigger chassis and have it turned lower or get a good bookshelf that can be pushed more?

Speakers don't necessarily sound better pushed at all. It does depend on the design. Some, like the smaller sealed encosure designs - LS3/5a and clones, for example, aren't designed to go loud and their sound starts breaking up at high volume. Others, such as the lower range Neat models,which are standmounts, begin sounding a touch strident if pushed. If you want decent, realistic bass then the bigger the speakers the better.

Another general rule is that bass is fuller on floor standing speakers than with standmounts, but the bass isn't as fast. Soundstage is generally meant to be better for standmounts, at the expense of bass.

Best bet is to listen and decide which sound you like best.

 

[radiorog]

ok instead of being a smart a$$ , explain why it is not that way so I can learn

If you offered an explanation I would assume that your motive was to assist.

By pointing out what you think is just wrong your motive as anything but helpful and is quite rude.

I may not know much about audio, but I do know manners

thank you

I concour tone.....I have seen many people on this forum come up with similar quick and easy comments that are negative,and leave the op feeling like they have received a negative response.it has often made me think too that it is rude.I think more effort is needed when responding to another person on here. I'm not saying that the person respondingbis genuinely rude,they might just be being straight to the point,but it does leave the op feeling like he has just been called an idiot,in wide open view for all to see,which can therefore be possibly construed as rude.?????

 

[manicm]

i have to agree with the OP and say that the reply offered was far from helpful and was put there for a reaction and not to offer any assistance whatsoever.

On topic -i have never heard that a speaker being driven to limits was a good thing. I used to have a pair of standmount B&W 686's, they were clear and crisp but that was about it. At just past what i would call medium volume they couldnt deliver the lows that i want and at low listening levels they were the same. Switch to my floorstanders and everything i want is there, at low volume and at completely ASBO volumes. Im sure there are audiophile words to describe what i mean but for big, airy sound at low and high volumes floorstanders are for me. This is my opiniom though and obviously some people love standmounts

Craig

Not being facetious, but your mistake was not getting the 685s instead - it's the better speaker and ironically more flexible and efficient than its smaller brother. And it LOVED higher volumes.

 

[craig84]

oh god i know, it wasnt that i wanted them really, a mate bought them as ex demo off the Bay for £60 with a tweeter missing, installed a new tweeter then offered them to me for £100 so i went for them as at the time i just had some old cerwin vegas.

Craig

 

[CnoEvil]

I think this is what Chebby may have been getting at:

- Don't assume all speakers sound better when very loud.....though most sound more exciting with a bit of extra oomph from an appropriate system.

- Floorstanders don't necessarily have better sound reproduction.....on the contrary, Standmounts are often better below a certain price point. Big / more woofers and a big cabinet bring inherent problems that are not cheap to sort out.

- There is no reason why a Standmount can be pushed more than a Floorstander.

Generally, a Floorstander will bring more scale and impact, but often at the expense of speed and imaging.....though there are Lean sounding Floorstanders and Bass Heavy Standmounts.

The efficiency of a speaker may well effect how lively it sounds at low volumes, and Floorstanders are generally more efficient, but not always.

The size of the room, its acoustics and the accompanying equipment play an important role....as well as personal preference.

This is one to try for yourself,

 

[NJB]

Having been through a few sets of speakers, I agree that the universal rules are far from clear. In my experience, under driven speakers often struggle to provide the right bass balance and can sound a bit thin. Over driven speakers just lose cohesion and then the music lacks control. I prefer speakers to be controlled, and so aim to have them well inside their comfort zone.

i am sure that people will disagree with me. If opinions did not vary, then you would only be able to buy one type of amplifier, speaker etc.

Whilst the array of speakers can be intimidating, I would suggest you set a price band, read some reviews and then head out to some dealers to audition them. Take your own amplifier or make sure the dealer has the same one. Matching the speaker to the rest of the system is absolutely vital. Try to set aside preconceptions and enjoy the music. Even changing the speaker cable can affect the balance.

A wise man once said to me, start at the source and work through the system. You are trying to preserve the music through every connection, cable and box. By the time you get to the speakers, they just have to let what is left of your music out. Make sure that the 'window' is nice and open.

 

[bluedroog]

While some speakers prefer to be driven harder it certainly isn't a universal truth, it should also be noted that often smaller speakers are less efficient and need more power.

how about a slim floor stander such as the PMC gb1? It has a decent size enclosure but easy to integrate small driver, are pretty efficient and bass is helped by the transmission line.

 

[bluedroog]

While some speakers prefer to be driven harder it certainly isn't a universal truth, it should also be noted that often smaller speakers are less efficient and need more power.

how about a slim floor stander such as the PMC gb1? It has a decent size enclosure but easy to integrate small driver, are pretty efficient and bass is helped by the transmission line.

 

[bigboss]

Whats better. A smaller speaker pushed or a higher end speaker with low volume?

Which car is more comfortable to drive on the motorways? An 800 cc car or one with a 2 litre engine? You have your answer there.

 

[tone]

Yeah I know what he was getting at but it was placed rudely assuming I was a fool.

Anyway, no worries.

So more woofers in an enclosure isnt better to separate frequencies ?

What I am saying is that , isnt it better to have one speaker for the highs ( tweeter) , one for the mids and one for the lows?

than to have one tweeter and one speaker handling all the other frequencies?

About the sound quality pushed what I mean is, not getting the speaker overdriven but pushed enough that it generates air and reverberation in the cabinet. Doesnt pushing air mean replicating certain frequencies better?

In listening I always notice that pushing the speakers a bit results in a fuller sound.

Thanks again for all the input!

I think this is what Chebby may have been getting at:

- Don't assume all speakers sound better when very loud.....though most sound more exciting with a bit of extra oomph from an appropriate system.

- Floorstanders don't necessarily have better sound reproduction.....on the contrary, Standmounts are often better below a certain price point. Big / more woofers and a big cabinet bring inherent problems that are not cheap to sort out.

- There is no reason why a Standmount can be pushed more than a Floorstander.

Generally, a Floorstander will bring more scale and impact, but often at the expense of speed and imaging.....though there are Lean sounding Floorstanders and Bass Heavy Standmounts.

The efficiency of a speaker may well effect how lively it sounds at low volumes, and Floorstanders are generally more efficient, but not always.

The size of the room, its acoustics and the accompanying equipment play an important role....as well as personal preference.

This is one to try for yourself,

 

[plastic penguin]

So in trying to narrow down variables in buying a speakers I am conflicted a bit in the size to buy.

I know that speakers sound better pushed but would it be better to get a floor standing unit with much better sound reproduction capabilities with more woofers and bigger chassis and have it turned lower or get a good bookshelf that can be pushed more?

IME there isn't one single answer to your question. Not only does it come down to room acoustics but dynamic capability of your amp, room size...

I've read so many reviews about small speakers that can be "pushed hard." But unless you live in the middle of nowhere (and no family) how often does anyone have the chance of pushing a speaker hard?

Personally speaking I'll dem a speaker and monitor how good it is at low volumes...

 

[BenLaw]

What is your budget?

What speakers have you already listened to?

Whay if any kit do you currently have?

What sort of sound are you trying to achieve? (Or if you're not sure, what kit have you previously heard and liked?)

 

[CnoEvil]

So more woofers in an enclosure isnt better to separate frequencies ?

Separating frequencies requires a well designed Crossover, and it all becomes more complicated / difficult to keep the speaker sounding cohesive. Also a poorly designed cabinet that isn't inert or properly damped, will undo the good, by adding coloration to the sound.

What I am saying is that , isnt it better to have one speaker for the highs ( tweeter) , one for the mids and one for the lows?

than to have one tweeter and one speaker handling all the other frequencies?

Yes, but it's expensive to get right, and the amp has to be able to control the extra bass.

About the sound quality pushed what I mean is, not getting the speaker overdriven but pushed enough that it generates air and reverberation in the cabinet. Doesnt pushing air mean replicating certain frequencies better?

In listening I always notice that pushing the speakers a bit results in a fuller sound.

Thanks again for all the input!

Yes, as the speakers get louder, the bass gets fuller, as they are moving more air.

 

[steve_1979]

Oh I'm so sorry

That will teach me for sure

Brother

More internet rudeness

Welcome to the internet dude.

Small stand mount speakers tend to sound clearer, image better and have less but better controlled bass. Floorstanders tend to be easer for an amp to drive and have more and deeper bass. You're best option would be to have a listen to both types and see which you like the best - preferably in your own room with your own equipment.

 

[tone]

I didnt quite get the pros and cons of a speaker with one woofer as oppopsed to a speaker with multiple woofers dedicated to seperate frequencies?

could you explain more please?

thanks!

So more woofers in an enclosure isnt better to separate frequencies ?

Separating frequencies requires a well designed Crossover, and it all becomes more complicated / difficult to keep the speaker sounding cohesive. Also a poorly designed cabinet that isn't inert or properly damped, will undo the good, by adding coloration to the sound.

What I am saying is that , isnt it better to have one speaker for the highs ( tweeter) , one for the mids and one for the lows?

than to have one tweeter and one speaker handling all the other frequencies?

Yes, but it's expensive to get right, and the amp has to be able to control the extra bass.

About the sound quality pushed what I mean is, not getting the speaker overdriven but pushed enough that it generates air and reverberation in the cabinet. Doesnt pushing air mean replicating certain frequencies better?

In listening I always notice that pushing the speakers a bit results in a fuller sound.

Thanks again for all the input!

Yes, as the speakers get louder, the bass gets fuller, as they are moving more air.

 

[ID.]

I would rather fight 100 duck sized horses than 1 horse sized duck.

Oh, wait, wrong thread.

I think the problem is the semantics of the word pushed. Many people seem to use it to state the the speaker is being run near or beyond its limits, rather than just having the volume turned up decently.

As others have said, it will really depend on so many variables. generalizing, there are also some inherent differences that you get from bookshelf vs floorstanding speakers in terms of imaging, speed and scale, which would also influence a decision based on personal taste.

I think I'd prefer a properly driven bookshelf speaker to an insufficiently driven floorstander, but that isn't necessarily just an issue of the volume you can play the speakers at.

 

[tone]

Well funny I tried the Martin Logan 40, 20 and the 15 bookshelf.

I liked the bookshelf the best for Classical music. It just projected better for some reason with an Orchestra playing. The violins sound increadible through the bookshelf.

The floorstanders I liked more with most other music though.

ugh, decisions decisons

 

[steve_1979]

Well funny I tried the Martin Logan 40, 20 and the 15 bookshelf.

I liked the bookshelf the best for Classical music. It just projected better for some reason with an Orchestra playing. The violins sound increadible through the bookshelf.

The floorstanders I liked more with most other music though.

ugh, decisions decisons

...or use small bookshelf speakers with a good quality subwoofer and you can have the best of both worlds.

It can be tricky getting a subwoofer to integrate seamlessly with small bookshelf speakers but when you get it right the results are excellent. You get to keep all of the razor sharp imaging and detail that small bookshelf speakers are good at but adding a good quality subwoofer also gives you better scale, weight and bass depth than most floorstanders can manage.

 

[tone]

i actually tried the combination at the store.

I put a good quality sub together with the booksheves and it worked but it still loses the mids that the floorstander has.

I dont know what imaging means but the bookshelves have a certain punchy projection thats cool. they dont really add any ambiance and it sounds more direct and focused.

I wonder if combining both would be awesome . lol bookshelf and floorstanders.

in general i liked the floorstander more without any subwoofer. i dont really like subs at all.

the subwoofer sounds best to my ears with the bookshelves though.