The budget stereo amplifier market has dwindled to a point where it's time to worry.
Whatever happened to the budget stereo amplifier market? : Read more
Whatever happened to the budget stereo amplifier market? : Read more
Whatever happened to the budget stereo amplifier market?
- Thread starter What Hi-Fi?
- Start date
Friesiansam
Well-known member
I think you might be judging budget amps by the wrong standards. You need to lower expectations, not compare them with the expensive kit you test. A good motoring journalist, won't judge a Dacia, against the Mclaren he/she was driving the day before.
SteveR750
Well-known member
Yamaha A-S501 (not even the entry model) was £320 in amazon, Elac DBR62 can be found for under £500 and a Wiim pro for £150. Problem solved. Real hifi at sensible prices with plenty of power to fill a room and build quality to last for years.
Hifiman
Well-known member
An article making good points. Whether it is because far fewer people buy hifi separates nowadays compared to the 80s or not, it seems the traditional U.K. brands have decided to aim for a higher margin on the products that they do sell. Just look at the nostalgia premium there seems to be with the Naim Nait 50 (a barely believable £2699 despite it having usability flaws) and the £1500 Musical Fidelity A1.
The music streamer market was going in a similar direction until the likes of WiiM completely disrupted it, leaving many of the U.K. premium priced streamers appearing high and dry. The concern is that similar disrupters could fill comparable gaps now found with other separates, including amplifiers, leaving the U.K. brands to chase a more rarified, and presumably much smaller, market.
The music streamer market was going in a similar direction until the likes of WiiM completely disrupted it, leaving many of the U.K. premium priced streamers appearing high and dry. The concern is that similar disrupters could fill comparable gaps now found with other separates, including amplifiers, leaving the U.K. brands to chase a more rarified, and presumably much smaller, market.
Combat
Well-known member
I don't mean to be rude but the author and other readers seem to be out of touch with the market. You only have to watch cheap audio man on YouTube to realise that the budget amp market is thriving. You have the WiiM Amp but also loads of other brands like Fosi Audio, Aiyima and then a step up brands like Emotiva. It would pay to do a but of research rather than assume that the same brands would always be the best.
I have a WiiM Pro Plus feeding my Kef KC62 Sub that feeds a high pass filter to two Aiyima A07 Max running in mono that then feed on above 80hz to my Kef LS50 Meta. Two £65 mono block amps driving £1100 speakers!
I have a WiiM Pro Plus feeding my Kef KC62 Sub that feeds a high pass filter to two Aiyima A07 Max running in mono that then feed on above 80hz to my Kef LS50 Meta. Two £65 mono block amps driving £1100 speakers!
Tinman1952
Well-known member
Interesting. I am wondering if this is because the music source has changed these days...
In the 'golden age' referred to, you bought a budget amplifier to pair with a budget CD player, tuner or record deck. These days (especially for young people) the 'source' is their smartphone, tablet or perhaps laptop. They find it much simpler to stream to crappy bluetooth speakers....😖
I can't see this changing soon unfortunately.....we seem to be supporting an increasingly 'niche' hobby...
In the 'golden age' referred to, you bought a budget amplifier to pair with a budget CD player, tuner or record deck. These days (especially for young people) the 'source' is their smartphone, tablet or perhaps laptop. They find it much simpler to stream to crappy bluetooth speakers....😖
I can't see this changing soon unfortunately.....we seem to be supporting an increasingly 'niche' hobby...
Fandango Andy
Well-known member
Not sure I agree. At the turn of the century, an entry level Marantz was about £150 with a Sony, or Cambridge Audio a little less and a NAD a little more. Ajust that for inflation and you have abut £250 to £300 in todays money, what can you get for that? Cambridge Audio AXA25, Yamaha RS202D or AS201, WiiM Amp, Sony STR DH190, and the fantastic Merantz PM6007 is only £50 over budget at £349 and worth saving up for if you are in the market for something a little cheaper.
Then on top of this you have all the little class D amps like the Fosi Audio V3 that offer a very cheap way into hifi. And there is also strong second hand market thanks to online marketplaces. There was a post on here the other day where someone was putting a system together on a budget and started with an old Cambridge Audio A1 and a Marantz 41CD. I have a second system in my bedroom that probably gets as much use as my main hifi, it is all second hand including a Sony TA F246E that I paid about £25 for ten years ago.
It makes sense that the market is smaller as it becomes more specialised as people listen to music on their TVs, mobile phones, and little plastic "smart" devices. But for those who are interested there is plenty out there and at a huge variety of prices. Look at how the cost of streaming is coming down. Add an external DAC to a WiiM mini and you have a £160 streamer that will destroy a £500 streamer from a few years ago. I'm not sure the availability of a newish technology has moved that quickly since the first ten years of CD.
Hifiman
Well-known member
What seems to have changed (and mentioned by the article writer) is that you used to be able to walk into a hifi dealer and listen to a variety of budget amps before choosing the one that you preferred. Those days seem gone, instead having to rely on YouTube gurus and a lot of mail order before you get to listen to anything yourself. I can see many people not willing to climb that ladder.
thatguy
Well-known member
The budget amp that you kept for years and slowly moved through your home as you upgraded to higher end amps is fading. It has been replaced with the direct from China amps that are hyped by salespeople on youtube and are priced to be somewhat disposable.
A salesperson at an audio shop could only talk up an amp to one person at a time. The youtube people can sell to thousands at a time. The mainstream manufactures were a bit slow on the influencer game and it has killed their introductory amps. It is also a bit difficult to compete with companies that don't have any service setup in every country they sell in and the big guys can't say "It broke? Ship it back to the country where it was manufactured."
A salesperson at an audio shop could only talk up an amp to one person at a time. The youtube people can sell to thousands at a time. The mainstream manufactures were a bit slow on the influencer game and it has killed their introductory amps. It is also a bit difficult to compete with companies that don't have any service setup in every country they sell in and the big guys can't say "It broke? Ship it back to the country where it was manufactured."
jimmymcfox
Active member
drmale
Member
First, I apologize for my bad English. I read the article with stupore.. I had to put a small system in the kitchen, and the requirements were: design (due the high risk of divorce), low cost, and sound must be very good. I got Ampli class d smsl AO300 €230, with a good integrated DAC, wiim mini €86, Q-Acoustic 3020i speakers, €350 (500 with original supports), qed xt25 cables €100). It costs less than 1000 euros and sounds exceptional, much much better than systems that once cost a fortune.
Remco_L
Member
100%! A lot of bang for r buck. I actually purchased a 301 some years ago, no regrets. Very pure and neutral, but lively.
Operandi
Active member
Came here to say pretty much exactly this. In addition to the article and author being out of touch it also points to the legacy manufactures being guilty of the same. Amps like the Fosi V3 have made several sub $1,000 best of amps list. I picked up the V3 and SMSL AL200 (based on an Infineon chipset unlike the Fosi's TI) after a 10 year hiatus and both of those amps are better than the 20 year old class AB amps I've picked up used or barrowed to test. They are also better than a much more expensive IcePower amp that I built which is probably 10 year old technology at this point so there really has been a lot of progress in class D in the last 5 - 10 years. Those two amps are stellar, (the SMSL even has a good DAC, remote, and EQ profiles) and would easily scale with speakers in the four figure range and setup someone with the foundation of a great sounding system.
Legacy media and legacy manufactures alike are both dropping the ball here. Fosi and SMSL, Topping, ect. are all building better sounding budget friendly gear than that displaces much more expensive gear from 10-20 years ago the legacy brands were making. Marantz, NAD, (whoever) can just as easily use the same TI and Infineon chipsets that Fosi and SMSL are using and I'm sure make a more compelling package for not much more money but none of them seem willing to do so. Most likely they are just protecting their existing product stack and margins but they are ignoring a changing market at their own peril in my opinion.
Last edited:
Iddison68
Well-known member
Can I have a job at What HiFi please because someone like me is quite lowly when it comes to HiFi and it looks like you might be needing my ears. For the last 10 years the Chinese have been outpacing most of the western implementation of budget pieces via chip amps. Small companies like Aiyima, SMSL, Fosi Audio, DouK Audio and Nobsound have been churning out small class d chip amps and DACs at a fairly rapid pace. Over the last 2 years they have really bitten into the meat of the budget market and are hungry enough to finish the plate and come back for seconds. The sound quality for the masses with the Aiyima Max, Fosi V3, and now the ZA3 for example has captured their ears and at a price that almost anyone on the planet would be impressed with. Tie that with today's sources like smartphones, tablet, laptops and PCs which again are not expensive if you shop clever and you have a system that if you took back to the 80s would have blown your mates away! I personally still prefer today's class A/B entry level stuff like the Marantz PM6007 series but the convenience of the Chinese chips amp is far more accessible and practical for a lot more people. The western idea of 'budget' or at least here in dear ol' blighty seems a very insular perspective imo. The budget crown belongs to the Chinese now and has done for at least the last 5 straight years and deservedly so.
LillaQuqen
Well-known member
TomX
Member
I think we are forgetting inflation. I bought my first Yamaha based system in 1988. $300US = $800 today. Today 3 components would run around $2400.
So really, there are more then a few components that would fit into $2400.
Integrated Amp with DAC and streamer? $1200 is possible. Speakers? You have $900 to get what you want. $100 for cables?
-T-
Jasonovich
Well-known member
The WiiM Amp is a small and powerful integrated amp with a built in DAC that delivers 60 watts per channel of sound, supports various music streaming services and connects to your TV and hold your breath! Costs approx. £299
Jasonovich
Well-known member
So true, you've stolen my thunder. I was going to say exactly the same thing!
WHF's interpretation of Budget market is a bit bizarre, I wonder are they basing it on the Retail Price Index?
Jasonovich
Well-known member
It's a case of Modus Operandi with traditional Hifi manufacturers and main stream HiFi media outlets
davidf
Well-known member
I find this piece a little ironic, and funny.
WHF highlighting the dwindled budget amp market? My opinion is that they screwed the budget amp market years ago by continually giving the best budget amp award to Marantz. No one else got a look in. As a manufacturer, why would you bother making budget amps if nobody buys them? On top of the fact you're up against one brand, you're also up against the huge used market for that brand - double whammy. Most manufacturers have moved higher up the price ladder where they're more likely to be considered.
WHF highlighting the dwindled budget amp market? My opinion is that they screwed the budget amp market years ago by continually giving the best budget amp award to Marantz. No one else got a look in. As a manufacturer, why would you bother making budget amps if nobody buys them? On top of the fact you're up against one brand, you're also up against the huge used market for that brand - double whammy. Most manufacturers have moved higher up the price ladder where they're more likely to be considered.
Hifiman
Well-known member
There is one other advantage to WiiM’s entrance to the market: no longer do you need to spend a fortune on the musical source. Even for people like me who still subscribe to the concept of front-end first, it makes little sense to spend more than on a WiiM Pro Plus or another WiiM with your own choice of DAC. It means the majority of the budget can now be assigned to speakers and an amp (I am not simply suggesting a WiiM Amp) should you so wish.
Last edited:
gasolin
Well-known member
But are they as good as a nad 3020 or pioneer a400 (which many love)
nad 3020i.e or the original in mint condition or a new cambridge audio axa25 i will take the nad any day
Where i live a axa25 is + 300 euros = 2x nad 3020i + 2 set of speaker cable /if the nad was sold in 2024 for the same price they used to cost 120-140 euros)
wiim amp is class d and not as good as class a/b
nad 3020i.e or the original in mint condition or a new cambridge audio axa25 i will take the nad any day
Where i live a axa25 is + 300 euros = 2x nad 3020i + 2 set of speaker cable /if the nad was sold in 2024 for the same price they used to cost 120-140 euros)
wiim amp is class d and not as good as class a/b
Jasonovich
Well-known member
You're applying a broad brush. Some lowly priced class D amps may not be as good A/B solutions priced at many folds than the ubiquitous WiiM amp but there are many premium Class D amps NAD D3045 · Hegel H95 · Bel Canto C5i · Heaven 11 Billie · Lyngdorf TDAI 1120 that sound better than many folds cheaper A/B solutions.
It really isn't about D vs A/B per se, but more about design and quality of the components used.
gasolin
Well-known member
I prefere a/b over class d , not shure even a nad D3045 sounds better than a nad 3020
Some might think just because it's new (or newer) that it's aut sounds better than a older amp + more power,balls to control difficult speaker loads
Sometimes you have an amp that cost 400 euros (or 300) you just want a new amp for about the same price, theres just no garanty the new amp (even when it's the same brand) sounds better, all you want is a better amp than the old amp (or and amp that works and is no worse than the old amp)
forums.whathifi.com
Some might think just because it's new (or newer) that it's aut sounds better than a older amp + more power,balls to control difficult speaker loads
Sometimes you have an amp that cost 400 euros (or 300) you just want a new amp for about the same price, theres just no garanty the new amp (even when it's the same brand) sounds better, all you want is a better amp than the old amp (or and amp that works and is no worse than the old amp)
Returning Marantz PM50
For those who may not have viewed my last thread, a quick summary. I have a Marantz PM50 from 1991, it's been a great amp, still sounds great and absolutely faultless. However it doesnt have streaming or a remote. I therefore purchased the WiimPro streamer, and thought I would treat myself to...
forums.whathifi.com
Last edited:
Jasonovich
Well-known member
Gas
Just to add further and yes I have noted your response
My Adams AV7 active speaker is rather unique, each unit has dual amplification; the Low range has D Class and AMT treble unit has A/B, it's the perfect marriage, the clinical sounding D Class appears to work best with the low frequencies, making it sound less bloated, while the A/B solution for the high frequencies gives it the desired warmth. I so love these speakers, I want to be buried with them so I can take them with me in the afterlife
All the best,
Similar threads
Facebook
Twitter
Instagram