What will the difference be......ordering a Sony 4K TV using the Sony BDP-S790 4K Player but using Blu-ray Discs and not 4K Blu-ray Discs?

[bigboss]

Your point is one sided though.Why is Sony launching 4k in the UK? Are they stupid...they must know what you say already?

The 4k TV needs to be in the homes first then the broadcasters will act. It is not a 'chicken and egg, as to what cames first argument. Like the PS3 example it had bluray.....that got the disk playing potentials into the home before the bluray disks expanded. Likewise the 4k TV Hardware will precedes the broadcast software.

So you tell me; why did Sony release 4K TV in the UK but refuse to release all the 4K goodies it has in the US? Jut to add to what strapped says, Sony wants a one-up in technology by being amongst the first to release a 4K TV. Even though Sony was the first to sell an OLED TV (although it was only 15 inches), the advantage of being the first to launch OLED is jointly held by Samsung and LG. So Sony wants to be amongst the first to launch 4K TV in the UK. Its own market feasibility studies may have prevented it from simultaneously releasing 4K media player and 4K movies in the UK along with the US.

Nobody is anti-4K here. As soon as broadcasters start announcing 4K plans, people will be interested. The last thing they want is to buy expensive 4K sets, and broadcasters then deciding that 4K uptake is poor and so postpone broadcasting in 4K by a few years. All they will end up with is an expensive 4K TV, the main feature of which they won't be able to use. Look what BBC & ESPN did with 3D. Still, 3D movie discs are available. There aren't plans to release true 4K disc players and movie discs (the "mastered in 4K" blu ray disc is a gimmick by Sony to encourage people to buy their 4K TV even though it's offering no more than 1080p resolution.)

Don't relate every TV issue to people's love for plasma. It is a childish argument. Everybody knows that a 4K plasma TV is unlikely to see the day. The future will be a 4K OLED TV.

 

[mr malarky]

The 4k TV needs to be in the homes first then the broadcasters will act. It is not a 'chicken and egg, as to what cames first argument. Like the PS3 example it had bluray.....that got the disk playing potentials into the home before the bluray disks expanded. Likewise the 4k TV Hardware will precedes the broadcast software.

If this were true then surely we would all be enjoying broadcast television in native 1080p resolution?

Fully accept Korea are well ahead of Europe on this front, and I believe Japanese broadcasters are investigating how to deliver 4k TV, but sadly the UK is years away.

The broadcast spectrum is not wide enough without either radically reducing the number of freeview channels (which there is potentially an argument for, since most of those channels are largely tosh), or grabbing more spectrum (which is difficult as they've sold most of it for 4G etc).

The broadband network won't be able to handle it for years, as penetration of cable is far to low and even the new fibre optic networks only deliver 15-20meg if you live more any distance from the exchange, and by the governments own targets decent broadband rollout is two years behind plan.

Potentially the most practical option for any kind of 4k broadcast/streaming could ironically be the 4g mobile network, in terms of a network having the necessary bandwidth, but I can't see the mobile operators allowing their shiny, expensive new 4g networks being gummed up by streaming of 4k TV (and no-one baking able to make calls as a result), and even then a good connection speed will be limited to the major cities for several yets to come (Just look at Ee's coverage map, if you don't live in the m25, Birmingham or Manchester your screwed).

That only leaves 4k BluRay for the UK, which personally I would be happy to invest in if it were delivered, if there was sufficient content to justify the upgrade cycle (ie more than just a couple of demo discs, nature documentaries and 'The Amazing SpiderMan'), but there's been no statement of intent as yet from any hardware manufacturers or film studios.

Which is a bit off really, given that Sony are both a hardware manufacturer and a film studio - since they are selling the displays why aren't they so selling 4k BluRay players and 4k blurays?

 

[mr malarky]

Interesting article on the whole subject here:

http://m.techradar.com/news/home-cinema/high-definition/ultra-hd-everything-you-need-to-know-about-4k-tv-1048954

 

[Anonymous]

I take the points expressed seriously and duly noted especially Mr M's response. It sounds bleak?? 4k deserve and need to succeed because:

Sony did a worldwide survey 2 years ago, it was mentioned in what hi fi. As Sony was recovering from poor sales it needed to tap into the public consciousness in knowing what the the public wanted in TV. Results shocked sony, very few wanted 3d.Espan and BBC have cancelled 3d broadcast recently.Now the public also did not direct say they want ultra Hd but the wording was not in the question understandably so not to mislead. The overall results show public wanted increase 2d image quality.

There are only 3 ways to do this.Wide colour gamut set, contrast improvement and ultra definition.The contrast thing is mission accomplished.That topic needs to close. That leaves the colour and definition improvement and that is what sony is doing. Oled in theory will do all three but price is highly prohibitive. 4k is the only answer irrespective if it is from a plasma-unlikely now, so it is down to 4k Led to meet the expectation.

The argument is very logical and incorporates public needs,very vital or else 4k will be another 3d fad or hype.

Broadcasters here after the 3d failure is likely now to want to see proof of 4k interest and that will have come from 4k Tv sales if they are to do anything.In South Korea, the broadcaster can just go with the new idea and the public will follow.4K will suceed there.

The UK is a difficult market to crack unlike the smartphone or tablet market for hi def.The pS4 if it upscale games could break the mould.If people keep harping on about ooh...there is no 4k broadcast in the UK so why 4k Tv....that statement is forfilling a vicious circle of self prophecy. Setting up 4k to fail. It it is as crass as to say to someone ...you disabled what is the point in doing sports? There are many uses of 4k...hi def pc/ps4 gaming,ultra photograph image viewing, hivdef ultra downloads from youtube, broadcasting will have to wait here.

If 4k fails in the West,Oled will also fail.It us not one or the other. 6 grand projected cost for a 55 inch Oled here will few takers here and it will be 1080p?

 

[professorhat]

It it is as crass as to say to someone ...you disabled what is the point in doing sports?

Oh dear... it's really not.

 

[bigboss]

I take the points expressed seriously and duly noted especially Mr M's response. It sounds bleak?? 4k deserve and need to succeed because:

Sony did a worldwide survey 2 years ago, it was mentioned in what hi fi. As Sony was recovering from poor sales it needed to tap into the public consciousness in knowing what the the public wanted in TV. Results shocked sony, very few wanted 3d.Espan and BBC have cancelled 3d broadcast recently.Now the public also did not direct say they want ultra Hd but the wording was not in the question understandably so not to mislead. The overall results show public wanted increase 2d image quality.

There are only 3 ways to do this.Wide colour gamut set, contrast improvement and ultra definition.The contrast thing is mission accomplished.That topic needs to close. That leaves the colour and definition improvement and that is what sony is doing. Oled in theory will do all three but price is highly prohibitive. 4k is the only answer irrespective if it is from a plasma-unlikely now, so it is down to 4k Led to meet the expectation.

The argument is very logical and incorporates public needs,very vital or else 4k will be another 3d fad or hype.

Broadcasters here after the 3d failure is likely now to want to see proof of 4k interest and that will have come from 4k Tv sales if they are to do anything.In South Korea, the broadcaster can just go with the new idea and the public will follow.4K will suceed there.

The UK is a difficult market to crack unlike the smartphone or tablet market for hi def.The pS4 if it upscale games could break the mould.If people keep harping on about ooh...there is no 4k broadcast in the UK so why 4k Tv....that statement is forfilling a vicious circle of self prophecy. Setting up 4k to fail. It it is as crass as to say to someone ...you disabled what is the point in doing sports? There are many uses of 4k...hi def pc/ps4 gaming,ultra photograph image viewing, hivdef ultra downloads from youtube, broadcasting will have to wait here.

If 4k fails in the West,Oled will also fail.It us not one or the other. 6 grand projected cost for a 55 inch Oled here will few takers here and it will be 1080p?

You're more than welcome to pay a premium for features you're not sure will get used, just for the sake of showing sales to encourage broadcasters to adopt 4K. 8K TV isn't made yet. But Japan is aiming for 8K broadcast by 2020:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/japan-8k-tv-broadcasts-2020-201306043066.htm

The main function of a TV is watching broadcasted programmes and watching movies, not ultra photograph image viewing. Youtube downloads are not 4K as yet, nor does broadband in most homes are fast enough to support 4K streaming.

Unless the broadcasters show commitment to 4K, 4K TV sales in UK will remain low. HD became popular only after Sky went HD, and PS3 drove in blu ray sales.

 

[professorhat]

Gamemaker - the point is, for most UK consumers, a 4K TV set is currently pointless if there is nothing to play on it which shows off how good it is. If I was looking for a TV now, I certainly wouldn't be paying more for a 4K set. This is because everything I will watch on it now will be 1080p at best, and the majority of my TV viewing for the next 5 years will also likely be 1080p at best. Maybe in a few years when 4K is built in as a standard i.e. I'm not paying a premium for it, I might be interested. But not now. I recognise this is different in other countries, I'm purely talking as a UK consumer.

Look at it this way. If Sony had announced the PS4 would be released tomorrow, would be backwards compatible so you could play PS3 games on it, but also said there wouldn't be any dedicated PS4 games until enough people had bought it to make that worth their while, do you think this would be met with vast consumer interest? The answer is no. People would say, make some games for it, and I'll think about buying it, but until then, I'll stick with the PS3. It's the same argument for 4K content I'm afraid.

 

[mr malarky]

The one thing that could shift the paradigm here would be if Sky fully engaged.

They're the one company that has the broadcast platform with the available bandwidth (satellite), the ability to roll out the necessary hardware (ie replacement set-top boxes), the financial muscle to roll this out at heavily subsidised prices, with access to potential content (Hollywood films and premium sports content), and on the sports front with the clout to insist on 4k cameras being used in all premier league grounds and major sporting events (cricket, F1 etc).

If sky came out the blocks in 2014 and offered 3 genuine 4k channels for an extra £10 a month (sports, movies and nature), plus a free set-top box, then that could be a game changer.

I know it didn't work with 3D, but 4k doesn't require people to sit in their lounge wearing sunglasses!

 

[strapped for cash]

and no-one baking able to make calls as a result

:O

I've always been bad at multitasking.

 

[mr malarky]

and no-one baking able to make calls as a result

:O

I've always been bad at multitasking.

Knuckles-deep in a soufflé mix, and you can't get through to your mum to check the recipe - imagine the chaos!!

 

[strapped for cash]

Knuckles-deep in a soufflé mix, and you can't get through to your mum to check the recipe - imagine the chaos!!

That's the kind of intolerable situation I imagined. Gold-plated iPhone caked in mixture. I'm getting anxious just thinking about it.

 

[Anonymous]

big boss you say that TV is for viewing programmes but if you examined Sony's latest ads on the triluminous TV, it doesn't go with that convention, the free experia z phone with nfc underpins that as you ideally see the image on the big colourful screen mirrored from your phone.It maybe marketing but convention changes and I believe consumers are finding new ways to use the TV with little encouragement.(The ultra high res' comes handy)Streaming from NAS boxes on A/v content or even from a Ps3. Youtube has presence from some broadcasters it is higher than 1080p which windows media does not play but on mac quick time...on mac display. ...jaw dropping sharpness in videos.

Movies at the cinema is still unbeatable! 4K projector and breathtaking professionally calibrated 7.1 sound, and theater acoustic consideration that would be difficult to duplicate in the home and at considerable cost.

The TV is now largely for games, social networking, Sky sports. I think any survey data would justify the points.

Bluray sells are declining...4k bluray is not the answer to 4k TV success as what hi fi hinted in their ultra hd article....when they said....are the public expected to buy the whole lot of blurays again?Explains why no 4k bluray.4k Broadcast is still the genie.

 

[BenLaw]

Movies at the cinema is still unbeatable!

Disagree.

 

[bigboss]

big boss you say that TV is for viewing programmes but if you examined Sony's latest ads on the triluminous TV, it doesn't go with that convention, the free experia z phone with nfc underpins that as you ideally see the image on the big colourful screen mirrored from your phone.It maybe marketing but convention changes and I believe consumers are finding new ways to use the TV with little encouragement.(The ultra high res' comes handy)Streaming from NAS boxes on A/v content or even from a Ps3. Youtube has presence from some broadcasters it is higher than 1080p which windows media does not play but on mac quick time...on mac display. ...jaw dropping sharpness in videos.

Movies at the cinema is still unbeatable! 4K projector and breathtaking professionally calibrated 7.1 sound, and theater acoustic consideration that would be difficult to duplicate in the home and at considerable cost.

The TV is now largely for games, social networking, Sky sports. I think any survey data would justify the points.

Bluray sells are declining...4k bluray is not the answer to 4k TV success as what hi fi hinted in their ultra hd article....when they said....are the public expected to buy the whole lot of blurays again?Explains why no 4k bluray.4k Broadcast is still the genie.

1) All these extra features are what manufacturers are concentrating on for advertising. But let's not forget the priorities of the consumer. Why would you buy a TV? What's your priority for using your TV? To watch programmes and films or check facebook and play games? Can you point me to any survey data you're alluding to? I'm yet to see a person wanting to buy a TV to access facebook.

2) Blu ray disc sales are actually increasing:

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2013/06/19/ema-blu-ray-disc-sales-increase-2012

Personally, I enjoy watching films both at the cinema and at home equally. My buttkicker gives me the experience not possible at the cinema.

 

[mr malarky]

Movies at the cinema is still unbeatable!

Disagree.

Depends on the cinema.

Given the choice between my local odeon and watching at home, would rather watch at home, but IMAX 3D is an experience you just can't replicate in a home environment.

 

[bigboss]

The highest quality available on youtube is 1080p:

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/91449?hl=en

I spoke to my sister-in-law who works for Google and Youtube. They had announced 4K videos in 2010, but that was lowered to 2048 X 1536 last year, which is not far off from 1080p.

 

[professorhat]

I'm yet to see a person wanting to buy a TV to access facebook.

I know zero people who access any social networking on their TV (or have any desire to do so). On the other hand, virtually everyone I know access social networking on their phone / iPad / tablet / laptop whilst watching something on TV.

 

[BenLaw]

Movies at the cinema is still unbeatable!

Disagree.

Depends on the cinema.

Given the choice between my local odeon and watching at home, would rather watch at home, but IMAX 3D is an experience you just can't replicate in a home environment.

It does depend, which is one of the reasons I disagreed with the blanket statement. However, I've not been to any cinema where I prefer the bass to my own, that includes IMAX. Main speakers are frequently too loud and / or distorted at the cinema and there are also often projection problems such as soft focus.

 

[mr malarky]

Movies at the cinema is still unbeatable!

Disagree.

Depends on the cinema.

Given the choice between my local odeon and watching at home, would rather watch at home, but IMAX 3D is an experience you just can't replicate in a home environment.

It does depend, which is one of the reasons I disagreed with the blanket statement. However, I've not been to any cinema where I prefer the bass to my own, that includes IMAX. Main speakers are frequently too loud and / or distorted at the cinema and there are also often projection problems such as soft focus.

on the audio front I do agree, not found a cinema that sounds better than home - was thinking more of the big screen impact.

That said, am planning to go and watch Pacific Rim at the empire in Leicester square, just to hear Dolby Atmos on action.

 

[BenLaw]

Let us know how it sounds.

I've never seen a well sorted PJ in a home environment. My guess is that, given the proximity to the screen, it would be possible to replicate scale and exceed quality of the cinema.

 

[Son_of_SJ]

I find it difficult enough with Gamemaker's writing style and also his random marshalling of several apparently unrelated topics in the same paragaraph, to now be unsure whether he himself has actually seen a 4K television showing true 4K content. And nobody mentioned plasma in this thread before he did. Mentioning plasma in a 4K discussion really did not help, the merits or demerits of 4K are quite separate from a plasma argument.

The one thing that could shift the paradigm here would be if Sky fully engaged.

They're the one company that has the broadcast platform with the available bandwidth (satellite), the ability to roll out the necessary hardware (ie replacement set-top boxes), the financial muscle to roll this out at heavily subsidised prices, with access to potential content (Hollywood films and premium sports content), and on the sports front with the clout to insist on 4k cameras being used in all premier league grounds and major sporting events (cricket, F1 etc).

If sky came out the blocks in 2014 and offered 3 genuine 4k channels for an extra £10 a month (sports, movies and nature), plus a free set-top box, then that could be a game changer.

I know it didn't work with 3D, but 4k doesn't require people to sit in their lounge wearing sunglasses!

Well said as usual, Mr Malarky. However, I'm now very keen for someone else to go into their local Sony Centre and see the blessed £6K 65" 4K television, showing true 4K content. I would like to be reassured that someone else found the 4K television more impressive than I did, and I'll be happy to stand corrected if my opinion is in the minority.

 

[Anonymous]

sony had employed parker marketing research in 2009 to assess its 4k vs 2k to see if it makes a difference. It is as objective as you can get in blind study with 20 foot screen. The results show a higher audience satisfaction with 4k.Results were replicated over time so the findings are valid. How that test would fair on TVs though we have to see. If on the otherhand the test in the cinema context showed no preferences then I would not be going on about 4k.I am fair and knew about this research before I penned about 4k and its importance for home entertainment. I am all for democratic assessment as we live in a demcracy decreed by consensus.

I cannot see a home non projector TV set up could rival a sony 4k dcp movie experience. I wouldn't comment on other cinema set up as it has not been researched. I would aways look for cinemas with quality systems.TVs are not first choice for movies anymore as it is 2k.

If you spend 25k on a room installation incl projectors for home cinema then I would make an exception in what I say. Hands up who has a special home cinema room with professional A/v installation? If you have then you are in the select minority who do not need to go to the cinema. But Imax is unrivalled as said.

 

[bigboss]

That's exactly the point. The results were visible on a 20 foot screen. What about consumer grade TVs? Is there any TV with a 20 foot screen?

Anyways, I have no idea why this is being brought up. No one's denying that 4K will be superior to 1080p. The problem is 4K content delivery.

Interesting to note that even you admit you don't know how 4K will look on TV, yet you're expecting people to wholeheartedly embrace it & spend 4 times the price of 1080p TVs on a 4K TV.

 

[Anonymous]

big boss, I have seen 4k showroom set up but not in the UK but in asia with the missus.All expectations were met. I was about 6ft from it... I urge others to view from themselves and discover. Democratic enough.

I simply said I like to see a blind viewing test like the market research exercise with the sony projectors but with 1080p and the 4k set from a comfortable viewing distance and maybe 6 ft?

I think what hi fi has done it internally but not on a public platform.

 

[bigboss]

I urge others to view from themselves and discover. Democratic enough.

Son_of_SJ has checked it out.

I happened to see the 65" Sony 4K television in my local Sony Centre today. It was showing true 4K source material. I must be honest, it looked good, very good indeed, but, for me, not quite the "Wow!" factor that I had been expecting from the reviews. Maybe if I hadn't been watching my Blu-Ray of "Drive" last night on my 64" Samsung plasma I might have been more impressed. I don't often get the chance to watch Blu-Rays in my parlour, so last night I was thinking that the picture from Drive looked pretty good. The 65" 4K Sony television showing 4K material today looked as good, but not, to my middle-aged eyes, noticeably better than Blu-Rays on my Samsung.

The thing is, what's the point? 4K on demo will only be seen in the showroom. There is no 4K content available in the UK. Sony is offering 4K delivery system to US customers, not UK.

http://www.whathifi.com/news/sony-4k-ultra-hd-tv-to-ship-with-worlds-first-4k-ultra-hd-delivery-system

Sony needs to announce something similar for the UK first.