What to understand before floorstanding speakers purchase?

[Jasonovich]

A big thank you to each and every one of you here for your time, advice, patience, and expertise. Your generosity is truly touching. Once again, if any of you ever feel like crossing the Channel and making your way down to Toulouse, there will be a fine beer or a good glass of wine waiting to accompany a listening session!
By the way, not so far from Stade Toulousain arena. ;-)

Regarding the bungs, I am surprised to see how common this solution seems to be. I was not familiar with it and must admit it makes me question the designer's work a bit.

The positioning shown in the photo offers the best compromise at this point. Not all music styles fare equally. Classical, Baroque, and Romantic music with not too much bass and at a fairly high volume sound magnificent. Jazz in a trio setting remains superb. However, anything in the pop-rock and metal genres quickly becomes tiring, oppressive, muddy, and unclear.

Do try filling the port holes with spongy foam. My Focal subwoofers had crazy thumbing bass, I managed to resolve it, using my wife's spare palette yoga mat! I have it spread up against the wall.

This obviously would be an eye sore in your room, so try using the sponge, simple ideas are sometimes the best.

If the bass can't be resolved, perhaps you're able to exchange these floor standers with smaller stand mounts?

 

[BenWatts]

@BenWatts , very kind offer thanks. 😀

You’re right that classical etc. doesn’t have large amounts of bass which is why you’re happy with that type of music. But with rock the bass is problematic. Bungs were shipped with my B&W CM4s back in 2000 but I didn’t need to use them. They’ll temper the bottom end. Bit like reducing bass on an amp with tone controls. 😉

If you really feel you can’t temper the bass here’s a radical solution. Buy a Bluesound Node Icon streamer and subscribe to TIDAL. For £11 a month you can have access to millions of tunes. The Icon is compatible with DIRAC LIVE so it can correct the excess bass you’re hearing. Around £1100 all in but it means going digital. Food for thought.

I currently use Tidal on my Waversa minihpa DAC/streamer

 

[RayP]

I currently use Tidal on my Waversa minihpa DAC/streamer

And does music via that system exhibit the same problems as analogue?

 

[Revolutions]

FYI 🙂

View attachment 9624

View attachment 9625

Makes me so glad I learnt my 2.54 times table at school.

 

[Al ears]

And does music via that system exhibit the same problems as analogue?

And why shouldn't it???
The speakers don't know what the source is.

 

[BenWatts]

And does music via that system exhibit the same problems as analogue?

I have to check it with the same music.
Some LPs are poor quality (modern fancy vinyl totally awful).

 

[RayP]

And why shouldn't it???
The speakers don't know what the source is.

Just trying to clarify the situation. One is analogue, the other digital.

 

[BenWatts]

Just trying to clarify the situation. One is analogue, the other digital.

And you are right.
The Waversa minihpa mkII is a quite good streamer, the TT has no other phono stage than the heed board integrated into the amp. The cartridge is 1 yo.

If you want to learn more about:

Waversa WMiniHPA MK2

Waversa WMiniHPA MK2 ROON Ready Waversa Mini HPA MK2 Streaming Headphone Amplifier is a multi purpose ROON enabled headphone amplifier capable of driving some of the most demanding headphones. The truly amazing Mini HPA MK2 provides the user with the ability of having just the one device sitting...

audioconnection.com.au

 

[Rodolfo]

3 more considerations/biases:

A. Looks matter (speaking of Sensibility)
B. Distinctive tweeters are under-appreciated/considered
C. Power is over-appreciated/considered

 

[BenWatts]

3 more considerations/biases:

A. Looks matter (speaking of Sensibility)
B. Distinctive tweeters are under-appreciated/considered
C. Power is over-appreciated/considered

I don’t get it.
What do you mean?

 

[RayP]

And you are right.
The Waversa minihpa mkII is a quite good streamer, the TT has no other phono stage than the heed board integrated into the amp. The cartridge is 1 yo.

If you want to learn more about:

Waversa WMiniHPA MK2

Waversa WMiniHPA MK2 ROON Ready Waversa Mini HPA MK2 Streaming Headphone Amplifier is a multi purpose ROON enabled headphone amplifier capable of driving some of the most demanding headphones. The truly amazing Mini HPA MK2 provides the user with the ability of having just the one device sitting...

audioconnection.com.au

Okay, it’s obviously a decent bit of kit but very different to the streamers I’ve used. I can’t see an option for room correction unless I’ve missed something.

Compare with tracks you’re very familiar with via analogue. If you hear the same problems we can discount the source as being the problem. I don’t think it is.

I do find it odd the makers don’t specify recommended positioning as large enclosures act very differently to bookshelf speakers. Far more bass but it needs careful speaker positioning to get the optimal bass without the room influencing the sound in a negative way.

I’m hearing some upper false bass on an album by Anita Baker and a few other tracks by different artists. I originally put it down to a poor recording and perhaps my old CM4s being a problem. But when I heard it again with expensive Spendors I knew it had to be the room. That was confirmed by looking at the graph generated by DIRAC.

Listening to the same track on YouTube via my Arcam AVR21 confirmed it was the room. Listening via the ARCAM that has a DIRAC licence I could toggle it on / off. With it off the problem was evident. With it on that troublesome upper bass disappeared but deep bass remained.

You can spend a fortune on expensive speakers but unless you have a perfect room these problems will exist. Hence why DIRAC and floorstanders are a great combo.

 

[BenWatts]

Thank you Ray,
I have to listen and listen again before swap to the old ones and find out if there are some adding or missing point.
From the app of the streamer many settings can be done but not dealing with room features.

Let the music play and see next Saturday when I will have time.

 

[AEJim]

Hi, I've only just seen this thread - can I just ask, have you tried putting the spikes on the AE120²'s? It should definitely improve that articulation and definition you're after, they come with small metal cups to avoid denting the floor (could also glue some felt to those if marking the floor is a concern). It may not look as nice but might be interesting to try.

 

[RayP]

Hi, I've only just seen this thread - can I just ask, have you tried putting the spikes on the AE120²'s? It should definitely improve that articulation and definition you're after, they come with small metal cups to avoid denting the floor (could also glue some felt to those if marking the floor is a concern). It may not look as nice but might be interesting to try.

Interesting suggestion. Looking at his photo they’re sitting on a hard surface. If the speakers shipped with spikes they should be tried. Coins are ideal for protecting the floor.

 

[RTHerringbone]

I haven't paid enough attention to recent posts, but has the opening poster tried some sort of makeshift port bungs yet? That's likely the source of the boomy bass and it was the issue I had with my speakers. EDIT: I read back and saw that some sort of bungs have been tried - in what form? It needs to be relatively dense to have an effect.

I temporarily put a balled-up (clean!) sock in each rear port until I could be bothered to retrieve the "proper" bungs from the box in the attic. It's transformative and removed the issue. It's not a fault of engineering either - not every room enables everything to be perfect, and port bungs are a simple and cheap solution for those of us with imperfect rooms / space.

Try the socks. It sounds nuts, but do it. Don't push them in too far, just enough to be able to easily pull them out without being afraid of them dropping inside the unit. It will make a difference and to be honest, socks are all you need. However, you can buy bungs online in various sizes for about £5.

 

[RayP]

The bungs supplied with my B&W CM4s were made of sponge. Very flexible when squeezed.

 

[Jasonovich]

I haven't paid enough attention to recent posts, but has the opening poster tried some sort of makeshift port bungs yet? That's likely the source of the boomy bass and it was the issue I had with my speakers. EDIT: I read back and saw that some sort of bungs have been tried - in what form? It needs to be relatively dense to have an effect.

I temporarily put a balled-up (clean!) sock in each rear port until I could be bothered to retrieve the "proper" bungs from the box in the attic. It's transformative and removed the issue. It's not a fault of engineering either - not every room enables everything to be perfect, and port bungs are a simple and cheap solution for those of us with imperfect rooms / space.

Try the socks. It sounds nuts, but do it. Don't push them in too far, just enough to be able to easily pull them out without being afraid of them dropping inside the unit. It will make a difference and to be honest, socks are all you need. However, you can buy bungs online in various sizes for about £5.

Bungs is that what you call them 🙂 I've been calling it spongy foam!

 

[BenWatts]

The floor is tiled. No spikes were provided with the speakers.

Besides the bass, it's mainly an overwhelming sound that fills the room and overpowers the listener.

Too much of a beginner to express it with the appropriate vocabulary.

The AE speakers offer a fairly clear sound; the new speakers somewhat overwhelm the listener.

 

[nopiano]

The floor is tiled. No spikes were provided with the speakers.

Besides the bass, it's mainly an overwhelming sound that fills the room and overpowers the listener.

Too much of a beginner to express it with the appropriate vocabulary.

The AE speakers offer a fairly clear sound; the new speakers somewhat overwhelm the listener.

Ben, I realise this probably all getting a bit much. But if the worst comes to the worst, you had your home trial and decided they weren’t for you. That’s the purpose of home trials!

Can I just check, are you turning down the volume, because obviously your new speakers are more sensitive electrically than the AEs? If you aren’t adjusting the volume then all you’re hearing is something much too loud for your pleasure, which anybody would find overwhelming.

What are they like played really low? There’s often a belief that sensitive/efficient speakers are better at low volumes. But maybe your volume control lacks the necessary resolution at low volumes?

 

[BenWatts]

Ben, I realise this probably all getting a bit much. But if the worst comes to the worst, you had your home trial and decided they weren’t for you. That’s the purpose of home trials!

Can I just check, are you turning down the volume, because obviously your new speakers are more sensitive electrically than the AEs? If you aren’t adjusting the volume then all you’re hearing is something much too loud for your pleasure, which anybody would find overwhelming.

What are they like played really low? There’s often a belief that sensitive/efficient speakers are better at low volumes. But maybe your volume control lacks the necessary resolution at low volumes?

Once again you highlight the latest issue.
I listen quite low : 70/80db
When I pump up the volume to 90db the sound is amazing. Everything is super clear.

Actually, I went home for lunch today.
I didn’t lunch at all but I tried several LPs and my Streamer.
At low volume the sound is not good. But at high volume the sound is marvelous even with metal. Dream Theater which is not what we can consider as metal sounds good: The Mirror; Lifting Shadows off a dream… with super defined deep basses.

I tried it after some classical music yesterday night. At low volume the sound was not interesting, I dared to high it up a little and was charmed.

I will try some Tool vinyl this evening with the drop D of Adam Jones…
Can’t wait.

 

[RTHerringbone]

It might be worth doing some experimenting with your neighbours. I don't live in apartments but in a semi-detached house. When I got our Hi-Fi I spoke with them and asked them to listen as hard as they could as I adjusted the volume of our system, just so I could understand the threshold between being anti-social and a good neighbour.

The downside is that the volume between sources tends to differ; if I listen to vinyl with the volume set to the level I use for the streamer then it is much quieter, but at least I have a reference point.

 

[Jasonovich]

It might be worth doing some experimenting with your neighbours. I don't live in apartments but in a semi-detached house. When I got our Hi-Fi I spoke with them and asked them to listen as hard as they could as I adjusted the volume of our system, just so I could understand the threshold between being anti-social and a good neighbour.

The downside is that the volume between sources tends to differ; if I listen to vinyl with the volume set to the level I use for the streamer then it is much quieter, but at least I have a reference point.

I live in a detached house but I'm still mindful of the sound pouring out into the street. Playing some of the 70s and 80s stuff, neighbours kids must think, grandad is at it again 🙂

 

[BenWatts]

The more I have things, the more I am possessed and lose my freedom !
Don’t know how to say that in English.
Good old times with cassettes in poor quality recorded from the radio on cheap system

 

[AEJim]

The floor is tiled. No spikes were provided with the speakers.

Besides the bass, it's mainly an overwhelming sound that fills the room and overpowers the listener.

Too much of a beginner to express it with the appropriate vocabulary.

The AE speakers offer a fairly clear sound; the new speakers somewhat overwhelm the listener.

There should definitely have been some spikes in the box, taped inside the foam end-pieces - they do improve the sound. If you can't find them or for some reason they weren't included and you'd like to try them send me a direct message and I'll get some to you.

 

[RayP]

@BenWatts , look at the base of the speaker. There should be holes to accept screws. Are there any?

If there are then you need to contact the seller and request they send you a set of spikes. And if there are rear ports they should have supplied bungs. Request those too.