What to understand before floorstanding speakers purchase?

[BenWatts]

Dear WhatHifi team,

I am definitely a beginner and roughly upset by spending wrong my money.
Today I am about to swap my speakers and I have selected two handmade brands which sale directly to consumers with no intermediate.
Feedbacks are super positive even with independent purchasers with several brands to compare.
Whatever the brand, the work is renown and I have selected two of them.

What do I have to learn to make a decision?

Manufacturer 1​	Manufacturer 2​	Manufacturer 3​
4 Ω	8Ω (1kHz) _ 4Ω (IEC 60268-5)	?? guess 8Ω
Sensibility : 94,5 dB	89dB/2.83V	91db
bandwidth (±1 dB) : 40 Hz – 22 kHz	30 Hz – 25 kHz (-3dB)	38 hz - 20 kzh at -3db (sometimes 30 hz to 22 khz is indicated) Filtering: at 2100 hz @ 12db
Power : 125 W up to 250 W	160W	70w
Best recommended amp: from 6 to 200 W	The one you have	Tuned on tube amp but will work with yours
Tweeter : Compression Driver 1 inch	Tweeter: 26mm	Tweeter Audax 34 mm
Woofer : 13 cm Eighteen Sound x 2	mid woofer: Long throw, emissive area : 104cm² Woofer: Long throw, emissive area : 104cm²	Rear bass reflex Woofer: 21cm
(H x P x L) : 81 x 19 and 24 x 29 mm	119x16,4x33mm	107x25x32
Weight: 19 Kg	25,5Kg	22Kg

When you read these features, what do I have to understand?
I have absolutely no chance to listen to one of them.
I would like to avoid names and pictures, just to see technical data and no brand nor pic.
These 3 are hand made by very small but passionate manufacturers.

The amp is the following: http://heedaudio.com/obelisk-line/

Specifications & Downloads

Heed Audio design and manufacture truly engaging hand crafted high-end audio equipments.

heedaudio.com

Obelisk SI3 + X2 power supply

Inputs:	5x analogue / 1x S/PDIF digital
Outputs:	1x stereo speaker / 1x Tape out
Frequency response:	5 Hz – 60 kHz
Input impedance:	10 kΩ
Input sensitivity:	250 mV
Power (8Ω):	50 W / channel
SNR:	96 dB
Supported upgrade cards:	MM phono / DAC 1.3 / DAC 2.3
Power supply options:	internal / Obelisk X2
Max. consumption:	200 W
Weight:	6 kg
Dimensions (WxHxD):	22 x 8.5 x 36 cm

thank you in advance for your help

All the best

 

[RJW232]

These specs don't say much. Other than that with 1 and to lesser extend 3 you don't need much power to make a lot of noise.
The only way to select the right speaker is to listen to them, preferably in your own listening room.

 

[BenWatts]

Thank you for such a quick reply.
I am questioning if with the modest heed 2x50w I have to pay attention to :
94 db or 89db or 91db?
If the bandwidth can be heard in my room : 40 Hz – 22 kHz 30 Hz – 25 kHz (-3dB) 38 hz - 20 kzh at -3db

I have no possibility to listen to one of these.

What do I have to know between 2 voices or 2,5 voices?

 

[Friesiansam]

I am questioning if with the modest heed 2x50w I have to pay attention to :
94 db or 89db or 91db?

The higher db figure, means greater speaker efficiency so, more volume for the same power or, the same volume for less power.

 

[BenWatts]

Thanks for that.
do human hears can feel the difference from 89db to 91db
Same question for 40Hz : are we able to hear the difference with a 35hz? Same with the opposite : 30 or 38khz?

 

[SenseiKofi]

Dear WhatHifi team,

I am definitely a beginner and roughly upset by spending wrong my money.
Today I am about to swap my speakers and I have selected two handmade brands which sale directly to consumers with no intermediate.
Feedbacks are super positive even with independent purchasers with several brands to compare.
Whatever the brand, the work is renown and I have selected two of them.

What do I have to learn to make a decision?

Manufacturer 1​	Manufacturer 2​	Manufacturer 3​
4 Ω	8Ω (1kHz) _ 4Ω (IEC 60268-5)	?? guess 8Ω
Sensibility : 94,5 dB	89dB/2.83V	91db
bandwidth (±1 dB) : 40 Hz – 22 kHz	30 Hz – 25 kHz (-3dB)	38 hz - 20 kzh at -3db (sometimes 30 hz to 22 khz is indicated) Filtering: at 2100 hz @ 12db
Power : 125 W up to 250 W	160W	70w
Best recommended amp: from 6 to 200 W	The one you have	Tuned on tube amp but will work with yours
Tweeter : Compression Driver 1 inch	Tweeter: 26mm	Tweeter Audax 34 mm
Woofer : 13 cm Eighteen Sound x 2	mid woofer: Long throw, emissive area : 104cm² Woofer: Long throw, emissive area : 104cm²	Rear bass reflex Woofer: 21cm
(H x P x L) : 81 x 19 and 24 x 29 mm	119x16,4x33mm	107x25x32
Weight: 19 Kg	25,5Kg	22Kg

When you read these features, what do I have to understand?
I have absolutely no chance to listen to one of them.
I would like to avoid names and pictures, just to see technical data and no brand nor pic.
These 3 are hand made by very small but passionate manufacturers.

The amp is the following: http://heedaudio.com/obelisk-line/

Specifications & Downloads

Heed Audio design and manufacture truly engaging hand crafted high-end audio equipments.

heedaudio.com

Obelisk SI3 + X2 power supply

Inputs:	5x analogue / 1x S/PDIF digital
Outputs:	1x stereo speaker / 1x Tape out
Frequency response:	5 Hz – 60 kHz
Input impedance:	10 kΩ
Input sensitivity:	250 mV
Power (8Ω):	50 W / channel
SNR:	96 dB
Supported upgrade cards:	MM phono / DAC 1.3 / DAC 2.3
Power supply options:	internal / Obelisk X2
Max. consumption:	200 W
Weight:	6 kg
Dimensions (WxHxD):	22 x 8.5 x 36 cm

thank you in advance for your help

All the best

I take most manufacturer spec listing with Everest levels of salt.

 

[BenWatts]

I take most manufacturer spec listing with Everest levels of salt.

To me this is old Persian langage.
Maybe I should go back to huge series instead of purchasing one oh these.
Several users on forum compare these 2,5k€ columns to 6 to 15k€.
I am lost and I feel stupid not being able to understand data sheets.

 

[Din5]

You are relying far too much on data sheets, instead you need to hear some different speakers. Some speakers with a great spec on paper may sound poor to your ears, whereas some with a different spec may sound great to your ears. You can't tell how a speaker will sound to you just by reading a spec sheet.
I wouldn't buy without hearing first.

 

[nopiano]

To me this is old Persian langage.
Maybe I should go back to huge series instead of purchasing one oh these.
Several users on forum compare these 2,5k€ columns to 6 to 15k€.
I am lost and I feel stupid not being able to understand data sheets.

Ben, it all means something, really, but you are some way off at the moment. Sorry if that sounds rude, as it’s meant kindly. I’ll try to explain some parts without too much detail.

…do human hears can feel the difference from 89db to 91dbSame question for 40Hz : are we able to hear the difference with a 35hz? Same with the opposite : 30 or 38khz?

Human ears can tell differences of 1dB but that is irrelevant here. You adjust the volume to suit the recording, and your preferences. The more sensitive/efficient speakers - the one with the larger number - will just need a bit less effort from the amplifier. But, and it’s a big but, the greater sensitivity means less extended bass in any given design. It’s a trade off that the designer makes.

For that reason I’d reject Number 1, because it’ll be needlessly loud, yet lack truly deep bass. And the requirement for 125watts is bonkers for the same reason - only 15 is needed.

Number 3 was designed on a tube amp which means it’ll be wildly unpredictable, so forget that too. Chalk or cheese, probably, depending on taste, but I want a speaker to reflect what was recorded, not add its own flavour.

Number 2 may be ok, however, and I like the humorous mention of whatever amplifier you have. Looks like the 2.5 way with two bass units carrying different duties. The heaviest too, which is usually a good sign.

Are they all similar prices in your country?

 

[SenseiKofi]

also what you have given is not workable data imo. We can do better with if they had some CTA-2034 Data but alas that isn't the case as you've not listed the speakers in question. Going by the crude data given, the middle speaker has some semblance of standardized terminology being used in their specs

To me this is old Persian langage.
Maybe I should go back to huge series instead of purchasing one oh these.
Several users on forum compare these 2,5k€ columns to 6 to 15k€.
I am lost and I feel stupid not being able to understand data sheets.

 

[BenWatts]

Many thanks for your advice.
It really helps me.

Theses speakers are all at 2450€ or 2500€.
+300€ if special paintings.

 

[BenWatts]

Sorry I could not find the English version for all.

Manuf 1 is

Atlantis Lab AT16

Atlantis Lab AT16 Atlantis Lab décline ses modèles professionnels des studios d’enregistrement pour nous proposer l’AT16, une enceinte colonne étonnante et extrêmement convaincante. Compacte dans ses dimensions, impeccable dans sa robe, elle s’avère bluffante dans son écoute. La promesse globale...

www.hifi.fr

Manuf 2 is

Illumine HEFA

www.recital-audio.com

Manuf 3 is

massilia

www.rouaultacoustic.com

 

[abacus]

Is your room large enough for floor standing speakers, as if not you will likely have terrible bass from any floor stander you buy.

Bill

 

[Amormusic]

I am definitely a beginner and roughly upset by spending wrong my money.

Hi Ben,

Sorry if this is direct, but you are going about this all wrong. Speaker matching to your amplifier is about synergy. Both the speaker and the amp need to work well together or you may very likely end up dissatisfied with the end result.

If I were in your position, and particularly as you are intending on spending €2.5k approx, I would want to hear the combination of speakers and amp together before spending any money. Do you have hifi dealers you can visit where you are? Doing this is likely to get you a far better result than a blind punt and hoping that the pair you pick marry well to your amplifier.

I'll give you an example. Around 4-years ago I did a speaker quest, I toured around lots of dealers and listened to many pairs of speakers up to about £7k on the end of my amplifier. Some sounded great and I could have been very happy. Others not so much. Some just turned me right off and I didn't like them at all. The only way for me to know how the speaker and amp combination worked was by doing this exercise and listening to them together. If I'd have picked a pair blindly without hearing them with my amp first I could have very easily accidently bought a pair that I really disliked in combination with my amplifier.

Therefore, what I'm saying is you should rethink your approach. Get out and have a listen to some stuff. Decide what you do and don't like. Speakers are a very personal thing. No one person on here or anywhere is going to be able to guide you to the "best" pair as all of our ears and preferences are different. What I like, you may dislike etc.

Good luck. All the best.

 

[BenWatts]

Is your room large enough for floor standing speakers, as if not you will likely have terrible bass from any floor stander you buy.

Bill

You are right.
The room is 40m² = 430.56ft².
It’s an opened kitchen + living room + entrance.
Not a square room. Weird shape with an island in the kitchen.
I have set sofa, couch and paintings on walls to avoid diffraction.

 

[daytona600]

Can you visit these speaker suppliers in france & test with your Heed amp
or Visit a local dealer with other french speakers
Focal , Cabasse , Elipson , Davis etc

 

[Al ears]

Can you visit these speaker suppliers in france & test with your Heed amp
or Visit a local dealer with other french speakers
Focal , Cabasse , Elipson , Davis etc

As he said initially two of the speakers are direct sales only, no dealers.

 

[nopiano]

30 days to try the Illumine, and they publish proper specs too. Seems like it might be worth a try.

However, as others have said, it’s far better to put in some listening, maybe a day trip to the city, or a weekend in Paris?!

 

[BenWatts]

Here are the current ones in the living room: Acoustic Energy AE-120 mkII.
Really cool ones. Nice basses but I am willing to upgrade the whole system with more definition and articulate sound especially on jazz & classical music.
Perfect speakers for rock & heavy songs.

 

[BenWatts]

30 days to try the Illumine, and they publish proper specs too. Seems like it might be worth a try.

However, as others have said, it’s far better to put in some listening, maybe a day trip to the city, or a weekend in Paris?!

It won't be possible this year.
700km far from home. I am located in south and they are northern east & northern west.
I am questioning about other specs : 2 or 2,5 way speakers. I have no clue on what to consider.

In addition after a brief phone call with one of this manufacturer he told be about a large bandwidth that could lead to a more directive speaker.

Can't wait to go back to the office after my sick leave to think about my job and late tasks instead of how to spend my money in hifi upgrade.

 

[nopiano]

View attachment 9579

Here are the current ones in the living room: Acoustic Energy AE-120 mkII.
Really cool ones. Nice basses but I am willing to upgrade the whole system with more definition and articulate sound especially on jazz & classical music.
Perfect speakers for rock & heavy songs.

I was just reading about the newest AE309-2, which might be a suitable update for you, at about half the price of the French handmade models. Obviously a larger manufacturer who outsources to China can be much keener on price, but you lose the cottage industry feel. Only you can know what suits your pocket!

Review here…https://www.avforums.com/reviews/acoustic-energy-ae309-floorstanding-speaker-review.22620/

 

[BenWatts]

I have considered the 309 but the listening session was not so convincing. Clearly it's better than mines. But I was not so charmed. The 500 series is a killer one!

I am increasingly considering the Illumine.

 

[nopiano]

It won't be possible this year.
700km far from home. I am located in south and they are northern east & northern west.
I am questioning about other specs : 2 or 2,5 way speakers. I have no clue on what to consider.

In addition after a brief phone call with one of this manufacturer he told be about a large bandwidth that could lead to a more directive speaker.

Can't wait to go back to the office after my sick leave to think about my job and late tasks instead of how to spend my money in hifi upgrade.

Unfortunately, taking a random aspect of a design and focussing on it doesn’t help you at all! And you have the subjective value that you attach to the appearance too, in what sounds like a significant part of your home. If they were tucked away in a music room that might matter less?

Any soeaker you can return at little or minimal cost will at least get you familiar with the differences and similarities with your AE models. And if you love them,then it’s time to spend your sick pay!

Wishing you a full recovery soon.

 

[Stuart83]

I am definitely a beginner and roughly upset by spending wrong my money.

Hi Ben,

Sorry if this is direct, but you are going about this all wrong. Speaker matching to your amplifier is about synergy. Both the speaker and the amp need to work well together or you may very likely end up dissatisfied with the end result.

If I were in your position, and particularly as you are intending on spending €2.5k approx, I would want to hear the combination of speakers and amp together before spending any money. Do you have hifi dealers you can visit where you are? Doing this is likely to get you a far better result than a blind punt and hoping that the pair you pick marry well to your amplifier.

I'll give you an example. Around 4-years ago I did a speaker quest, I toured around lots of dealers and listened to many pairs of speakers up to about £7k on the end of my amplifier. Some sounded great and I could have been very happy. Others not so much. Some just turned me right off and I didn't like them at all. The only way for me to know how the speaker and amp combination worked was by doing this exercise and listening to them together. If I'd have picked a pair blindly without hearing them with my amp first I could have very easily accidently bought a pair that I really disliked in combination with my amplifier.

Therefore, what I'm saying is you should rethink your approach. Get out and have a listen to some stuff. Decide what you do and don't like. Speakers are a very personal thing. No one person on here or anywhere is going to be able to guide you to the "best" pair as all of our ears and preferences are different. What I like, you may dislike etc.

Good luck. All the best.

Bang on

If you can't demo them walk past and try something you can, especially when spending big never buy blind/deaf it's inviting problems.

 

[Jasonovich]

If you can't get to a dealership near you to listen to speakers. Find a dealer that allows you to return the speakers within 14-30 days no questions asked. Maybe you can find such dealer in France?