i am a big fan of WHF but wonder how good the tv reviews really are. the latest bunch reviewed in this months mag give an insight into how they perform but do they have connectivity to web sites? and if so how do they perform on the models ?? no mention, plus, i was waiting on the pana review and was dissapointed to see it only got 4 stars however in the summary that was only down to price ?? it states the pana had the best blacks on test ?? surely a persons budget is their budget and WHF should now forget costing and focus purely on performance, i mean if the sony is that good, surely the philips should get 4 stars as it costs £900 more ?? I think WHF should maybe review their format on how they review products
what hifi tv reviews ?
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The_Lhc
Well-known member
What you mean is, I really like this telly and I'm annoyed WHF didn't give it 5 stars.
The reviews have ALWAYS been on a performance per pound basis and they're always comparative (ie compared to other sets).
The Panasonic is an excellent set but the team don't think it justifies the additional 200 quid over the Sony set, it's as simple as that. That doesn't make it a bad set, so if your budget runs to the extra 200 quid then happy happy joy joy, buy the Panasonic, you aren't going to be disappointed.
But to ask for the entire reviewing process to be changed just because it doesn't deliver the outcome you want is ridiculous, what happens when the next person decides they don't agree with a result, you expect the magazine to change their review process again?
As for the website stuff, if it didn't work, I'm sure it would get a mention, but I can't believe anyone would base their purchasing decision on that.
The reviews have ALWAYS been on a performance per pound basis and they're always comparative (ie compared to other sets).
The Panasonic is an excellent set but the team don't think it justifies the additional 200 quid over the Sony set, it's as simple as that. That doesn't make it a bad set, so if your budget runs to the extra 200 quid then happy happy joy joy, buy the Panasonic, you aren't going to be disappointed.
But to ask for the entire reviewing process to be changed just because it doesn't deliver the outcome you want is ridiculous, what happens when the next person decides they don't agree with a result, you expect the magazine to change their review process again?
As for the website stuff, if it didn't work, I'm sure it would get a mention, but I can't believe anyone would base their purchasing decision on that.
matthewpiano
Well-known member
Price, and performance/price ratio in particular, is an intrinsic part of making any sort of judgement. Every customer, no matter what their budget, wants value for money and it is only correct that the reviews give this creedence.
The_Lhc
Well-known member
maxflinn:the two tvs are the same price guys ...
What two TVs? In the WHF group test the Panasonic was marked down to 4 stars specifically because it was 200 quid more expensive than the Sony in the test and WHF didn't consider it to be a big enuogh step up to warrant the money.
It might well be that you can buy the Panasonic for the same price as the Sony in the real world, but WHF have to use the RRPs otherwise the whole system becomes unworkable.
What two TVs? In the WHF group test the Panasonic was marked down to 4 stars specifically because it was 200 quid more expensive than the Sony in the test and WHF didn't consider it to be a big enuogh step up to warrant the money.
It might well be that you can buy the Panasonic for the same price as the Sony in the real world, but WHF have to use the RRPs otherwise the whole system becomes unworkable.
actually im not looking to purchase the panasonic, rather a sony, i just think that if it has a great picture and best blacks, £200 in my books doesnt justify 4 stars, and if a tv has connectivity to YOUTUBE etc, whether or not you think its a purchasing decision, i do want to know how it performs as im paying for it and its in the damn tv, if your going to do a review do it thoroughly or dont do it at all ?? I just think the reviews are a bit on the lazy side
Just to be clear, the prices we give are the TSPs (typical selling prices) supplied by the manufacturer, not a RRP, which of course they can't set.
i guess thats a fair point the_lhc , it will be interesting when whfi review the new 50in plasmas from boyh samsung and panasonic , samsungs 6 and 7 (the 7 series being 3d)series and panas g and probably v20 sets will be cheaper than the lg plasma that got 5 stars in splendid isolation in this months mag , if i understand it correctly , the lg will lose a star if any cheaper , better or equally as good plasmas are reviewed , thats if i understand correctly
Going back to the OP, i'd like to stress that EVERY SINGLE REVIEW in the Supertest discusses - both in text, in captions and in the final sum-up spec table - whether the TV has an ethernet socket, and the internet features it offers (eg Skype coming to the Panasonic set).
Secondly the Panasonic didn't JUST lose a star due to price; the Sony outperforms it, too (for every metric - sound and vision - other than black levels).
All these facts and summations are included in the full Supertest, including introduction, Buying advice, annotated pictures, full tech-specs, separate star-ratings for picture, sound and features, and full verdict text.
It seems few commenting on this test have read the full test, with all this information, and are judging us on bare star ratings. Now that doesn't make US lazy
Secondly the Panasonic didn't JUST lose a star due to price; the Sony outperforms it, too (for every metric - sound and vision - other than black levels).
All these facts and summations are included in the full Supertest, including introduction, Buying advice, annotated pictures, full tech-specs, separate star-ratings for picture, sound and features, and full verdict text.
It seems few commenting on this test have read the full test, with all this information, and are judging us on bare star ratings. Now that doesn't make US lazy
Clare Newsome:
Going back to the OP, i'd like to stress that EVERY SINGLE REVIEW in the Supertest discusses - both in text, in captions and in the final sum-up spec table - whether the TV has an ethernet socket, and the internet features it offers (eg Skype coming to the Panasonic set).
Secondly the Panasonic didn't JUST lose a star due to price; the Sony outperforms it, too (for every metric - sound and vision - other than black levels).
All these facts and summations are included in the full Supertest, including introduction, Buying advice, annotated pictures, full tech-specs, separate star-ratings for picture, sound and features, and full verdict text.
It seems few commenting on this test have read the full test, with all this information, and are judging us on bare star ratings. Now that doesn't make US lazy
Im not stating my full coment about this review or giving my personal / technical point of view cause unfortunally i haven't got the chance to buy this month isuee .... today is 17 th April ..... it isn't fair ...
Altough bit surprise on the outcome.. have to read the full test to be able to state a elaborate opinion .....
For me and for what i understand from the reviews - 4 star is a safe and good buy altough most of us were really expecting the 5 stars , and expectations were high .... without reading the full test review we must allways remembre that afterall the technicall issue and parametres , the quantifayble ( havent got the right word) meters you have allways a litlle bit of subjective variables ... im not saying this justifies the 4 star for the pana im just saying that it influences to ......
Even now i can't apreciate the somehow artificial image , video look , that some sets show - some of those sets get 5 stars but im telling you they would not enter in my living room
Besides that there are many stores in here like Best Buys that have people the dont care less about the sets or how they look to the public - i mean if some of you saw some sets in the stores and how they are showing image - i could not belive it - for me its just a mather of professionalism , not regarding the brand you should be able to calibrate the set for a reasonable / standard picture so general public get a resonable general ideia how the set will look like in their home - im must confess if they leave some sets like they are that brand is not going to sell for sure ( in this case it was a set the WHF team liked so much )
Some brands should have more control how this sets are showed to the general audience ... well but im talking to much ..
have to go make dinner , brb.
Going back to the OP, i'd like to stress that EVERY SINGLE REVIEW in the Supertest discusses - both in text, in captions and in the final sum-up spec table - whether the TV has an ethernet socket, and the internet features it offers (eg Skype coming to the Panasonic set).
Secondly the Panasonic didn't JUST lose a star due to price; the Sony outperforms it, too (for every metric - sound and vision - other than black levels).
All these facts and summations are included in the full Supertest, including introduction, Buying advice, annotated pictures, full tech-specs, separate star-ratings for picture, sound and features, and full verdict text.
It seems few commenting on this test have read the full test, with all this information, and are judging us on bare star ratings. Now that doesn't make US lazy
Im not stating my full coment about this review or giving my personal / technical point of view cause unfortunally i haven't got the chance to buy this month isuee .... today is 17 th April ..... it isn't fair ...
Altough bit surprise on the outcome.. have to read the full test to be able to state a elaborate opinion .....
For me and for what i understand from the reviews - 4 star is a safe and good buy altough most of us were really expecting the 5 stars , and expectations were high .... without reading the full test review we must allways remembre that afterall the technicall issue and parametres , the quantifayble ( havent got the right word) meters you have allways a litlle bit of subjective variables ... im not saying this justifies the 4 star for the pana im just saying that it influences to ......
Even now i can't apreciate the somehow artificial image , video look , that some sets show - some of those sets get 5 stars but im telling you they would not enter in my living room
Besides that there are many stores in here like Best Buys that have people the dont care less about the sets or how they look to the public - i mean if some of you saw some sets in the stores and how they are showing image - i could not belive it - for me its just a mather of professionalism , not regarding the brand you should be able to calibrate the set for a reasonable / standard picture so general public get a resonable general ideia how the set will look like in their home - im must confess if they leave some sets like they are that brand is not going to sell for sure ( in this case it was a set the WHF team liked so much )
Some brands should have more control how this sets are showed to the general audience ... well but im talking to much ..
have to go make dinner , brb.
CM7: Even now i can't apreciate the somehow artificial image , video look , that some sets show - some of those sets get 5 stars but im telling you they would not enter in my living room
Well, I couldn't have said that better myself
And this is one of the reasons Philips TV's will never enter my living room (unless they start making OLED or good plasma's, but I doubt it). Sony and B&O are the only companies with decent 100Hertz technologies implemented in their TV's. Other attemps of 100, 200 or even 400Hertz to compensate for relatively slow responsivness is less convincing in my opinion. Furthermore, viewing angles on LCD sets is another no-go for my part.
CM7: Besides that there are many stores in here like Best Buys that have people the dont care less about the sets or how they look to the public - i mean if some of you saw some sets in the stores and how they are showing image - i could not belive it - for me its just a mather of professionalism , not regarding the brand you should be able to calibrate the set for a reasonable / standard picture so general public get a resonable general ideia how the set will look like in their home - im must confess if they leave some sets like they are that brand is not going to sell for sure (in this case it was a set the WHF team liked so much)
Some brands should have more control how this sets are showed to the general audience ... well but im talking to much ..
But I can assure you there is a very clear agenda on how TV's are set up in the shops!
Why do you think most TV's have two settings, one called 'shop' the other 'home'? It is because you do not want your TV to show a correct picture in the shops. You wouldn't stand a change against the competition if you did! Instead colours and sharpness are overblown trying to catch your eye rather than the competition.
That is also why I do not agree with the general advise to go look at the TV's yourself. It is impossible to make a good subjective decision in a shop with hundreds of sets, most of them not set up properly. Most people ending up buying the brightest TV with the most vibrant colours. But what might seem appealing in the shop soon becomes annoying at home. Here you rather want neutral colours and correct settings in general.
People are always amazed when they see my (professionally) calibrated plasma. 'But this is far better than any LCD TV I have ever seen' many says surprised. And why is that? Well, plasma's are not really designed for 'showing off' in shops. In most shops there are very light, and as plasma's suffers more from reflections than LCD's they have a big disadvantage in such an environment. Furthermore LCD's are in general brighter and thereby easier catching your attention.
Now I will probably be labelled 'Plasma fanboy', and that is ok. Although I do not like the term, I do believe plasma (still) offer the most advantages compared to (even LED) LCD sets.
I am no loyal fan though. If 40 inch OLED TV's were launched tomorrow at a resonable price, you will probably have to call me OLED fanboy instead
Well, I couldn't have said that better myself
CM7: Besides that there are many stores in here like Best Buys that have people the dont care less about the sets or how they look to the public - i mean if some of you saw some sets in the stores and how they are showing image - i could not belive it - for me its just a mather of professionalism , not regarding the brand you should be able to calibrate the set for a reasonable / standard picture so general public get a resonable general ideia how the set will look like in their home - im must confess if they leave some sets like they are that brand is not going to sell for sure (in this case it was a set the WHF team liked so much)
Some brands should have more control how this sets are showed to the general audience ... well but im talking to much ..
But I can assure you there is a very clear agenda on how TV's are set up in the shops!
Why do you think most TV's have two settings, one called 'shop' the other 'home'? It is because you do not want your TV to show a correct picture in the shops. You wouldn't stand a change against the competition if you did! Instead colours and sharpness are overblown trying to catch your eye rather than the competition.
That is also why I do not agree with the general advise to go look at the TV's yourself. It is impossible to make a good subjective decision in a shop with hundreds of sets, most of them not set up properly. Most people ending up buying the brightest TV with the most vibrant colours. But what might seem appealing in the shop soon becomes annoying at home. Here you rather want neutral colours and correct settings in general.
People are always amazed when they see my (professionally) calibrated plasma. 'But this is far better than any LCD TV I have ever seen' many says surprised. And why is that? Well, plasma's are not really designed for 'showing off' in shops. In most shops there are very light, and as plasma's suffers more from reflections than LCD's they have a big disadvantage in such an environment. Furthermore LCD's are in general brighter and thereby easier catching your attention.
Now I will probably be labelled 'Plasma fanboy', and that is ok. Although I do not like the term, I do believe plasma (still) offer the most advantages compared to (even LED) LCD sets.
I am no loyal fan though. If 40 inch OLED TV's were launched tomorrow at a resonable price, you will probably have to call me OLED fanboy instead
As my english is not the best sometimes i get some dificulty to explain my toughts well... i dont think tvs have 2 settings , in that case i was refering to some shops , if you want i can specify - FNAC store i saw in Coimbra City ( not saying all stores have this kind of working) have some of the tv sets with no concern at all - im not saying "out of the box settings" but some were set or tweeked as if you were ment to show horrible image , impossible to watch ....
Besides that i 100 % agree with the rest you said...
Besides that i 100 % agree with the rest you said...
Well, this was actually not meant as commenting on your point. I was trying to make another point.
Believe me, many TV's has specific settings meant for presentations in shops, and these settings are no where near ideal! Luckily, many TV manufacturers have started the trend to offer 'home' settings also, offering more proper settings for home environment.
Believe me, many TV's has specific settings meant for presentations in shops, and these settings are no where near ideal! Luckily, many TV manufacturers have started the trend to offer 'home' settings also, offering more proper settings for home environment.
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