What Hi-Fi listening rooms

[Andrew Everard]

Thaiman:
(I thought you might reply to my post, Andy also going a bit thin too!)

Mr Clough has always been fashionably svelte. Not a problem I have myself...

 

[Ajani]

silly:I think that what someone wants to do with their own living space is up to them, but sometimes people blame their speakers when really the problems is the room, personally speaking I think it's vital that a pair of speakers or whatever it tested in a acoustically treated room, at least that way you are hearing the spŠakers true response, now let's say for example that the room was not treated and the reviewer went on to say the that the speaker had a bass hump at 125Hz and boomed badly at 62Hz, when in fact all he was hearing was a room mode, the customer would think X speaker was poor because it was reported to be boomy when in fact it wasn't, so I think reviews of kit should be carried out in a professional manner, i.e a treated room, if people want a different sound response in their own environment then that's there choice.

Yep... I'm with you on the use of accoustically treated rooms... but if someone wants to read about a review being perfomed in the reviewers livingroom/bedroom/bathroom then who am I to argue with them?...

silly:Regarding the review itself, who cares? haha.

The complaint about the KEF review might have had validity if WHF had always bashed KEF products... then an arguement for bias might be possible... but considering how many 5 star reviews and awards KEF has received recently from WHF, it's just rubbish to suddenly complain that either they are biased or their listening rooms are messed up (since those same reviewers loved the other KEF gear in those same listening rooms)... What would be really funny is what these same protestors will say if other major mags give the new KEFs unfavourable reviews... Will it then be that the whole industry is wrong and only KEF dealers know the truth?

I think we all just need to relax, kick off our shoes and listen to some tunes....

 

[Anonymous]

Well I thinkÿSonicaccuracyisall got what he was trolling for...

 

[Andrew Everard]

Ajani:
The complaint about the KEF review might have had validity if WHF had always bashed KEF products... then an arguement for bias might be possible... but considering how many 5 star reviews and awards KEF has received recently from WHF, it's just rubbish to suddenly complain that either they are biased or their listening rooms are messed up (since those same reviewers loved the other KEF gear in those same listening rooms)... What would be really funny is what these same protestors will say if other major mags give the new KEFs unfavourable reviews... Will it then be that the whole industry is wrong and only KEF dealers know the truth?

I think we all just need to relax, kick off our shoes and listen to some tunes....

The point is that our listening rooms, like the test-tracks our colleagues on Autocar use, aren't supposed to be be real-world - they're a reviewing tool, and tell you a lot more about what a product is doing than just plonking it down in someone's front room. Or in Autocar's case, simply driving it to and from work a few times.

Based on what they hear in the main testing rooms, and the others which have less or no treatment - we have a total of six rooms, after all - our reviewers have the experience to be able to tell how a product will perform in a variety of domestic situtations.

 

[JoelSim]

How does this work with something like a Dali which uses reflections in harmony?

ÿ

 

[Tear Drop]

Andrew Everard:Thaiman:
(I thought you might reply to my post, Andy also going a bit thin too!)

Mr Clough has always been fashionably svelte. Not a problem I have myself...

Are you telling us that's not a rug?...we need to know.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok as a owner of a NEW pair of kef IQ5 SE's that still warrant further running in due to this magazine and forum's advice, maybe 30 hours or so... so far!

I can understand that Kef have had to increase the price by £100 .. everything else has increased considerably so its understandable Hi-Fi does too.

But can someone explain to me how a company as well established as Kef could not improve on the success they've had with the IQ5 SE's...... in only improving on the my recent 5 star purchase?

ps before i get shot down i'm a newbie here and obviously not that experienced as you guys and girls here.

Yamaha RX-v2600 Marantz cd 6000 ose le MJ Acoustic pro 50 mkII QED silver anni xt speaker cables

 

[Anonymous]

jasonh:But can someone explain to me how a company as well established as Kef could not improve on the success they've had with the IQ5 SE's...... in only improving on the my recent 5 star purchase?They have improved on their 5 star product. Yes, it has cost KEF a little more money, but they have improved them. KEF are very aware of the competition, and I'm also sure they've compared their own products to others before putting it out there for the public to sample.

I just can't believe that an audibly improved product can drop 2 stars over it's predecessor.

And for certain people's information, I'm not condemning WHF, merely raising some issues. Why can't they be brought up and dealt with without me jumped upon like a chavs protecting their girlfriend?

 

[Andrew Everard]

JoelSim:
How does this work with something like a Dali which uses reflections in harmony?

As I said, we have six rooms, with a variety of acoustic treatments and thus reflectivity.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Tear Drop:Are you telling us that's not a rug?...we need to know.

 

[professorhat]

4LKN4:And for certain people's information, I'm not condemning WHF, merely raising some issues. Why can't they be brought up and dealt with without me jumped upon like a chavs protecting their girlfriend?
And those issues you raised have been answered and proven to not be issues. Are you just selectively ignoring them so can believe in your fantasy just to make you happy? If so, fair enough, whatever helps you sleep.

 

[Ajani]

jasonh:
Ok as a owner of a NEW pair of kef IQ5 SE's that still warrant further running in due to this magazine and forum's advice, maybe 30 hours or so... so far!

I can understand that Kef have had to increase the price by £100 .. everything else has increased considerably so its understandable Hi-Fi does too.

But can someone explain to me how a company as well established as Kef could not improve on the success they've had with the IQ5 SE's...... in only improving on the my recent 5 star purchase?

ps before i get shot down i'm a newbie here and obviously not that experienced as you guys and girls here.

Yamaha RX-v2600 Marantz cd 6000 ose le MJ Acoustic pro 50 mkII QED silver anni xt speaker cables

Those are valid questions, deserving an answer, so here goes:

The £100 price increase alone could cause them to drop from 5 stars... Consider the Monitor Audio BR5 which recently fell from 5 to 4 stars after a £50 price increase (not to mentioned increased competition from your KEF IQ5SE)...

Also, keep in mind that a manufacturer making changes to their products is not necessarily an improvement.... It's quite common for an updated product range to be less well received than the previous one... KEF certainly isn't the first (consider the less than stellar reviews for the Quad L2 line compared to the absolute hysteria over the L1) and won't be the last.

 

[Anonymous]

I tend to make speakers more than own them. Even my long stays get reworked every time they change location. I cant possibly know what room they will end up in and match it. No listening environment is ideal, except for one. A field, sat on a slab. Generally a camp site. Its actually quite enjoyable to set up some chairs and system in a field, but then i do love some excentricity. (Im taking my parents to amsterdam next week for a steak, because i like groucho's argentinian steak houses). You can learn a lot from taking your kit into the garden. Like how much the neighbours can take lol.

Now much as a speaker set up in a field will bloat indoors, i cant be blamed for that. Its the rooms fault. I have to compromise a good speaker performance though, to allow for indoor use. Its a very hard task, and one that does need a dead room(field)and a few other locations, to find a happy medium. Thus as an end user, testing of speakers anywhere but at home is floored. It sounds to me like WHF are doing all they can. Some store environment not achieving similar results is to be expected. You need to treat speaker recomendations a bit more loosely then other recomendations, thats all.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Which is why at least one manufacturer tests speakers in a facility like this:

 

[Anonymous]

Hello chaps.

First of all, it's perfectly possible that a product could be an improvement on its predecessor and still get a lower star rating. This is simply because we compare every product to its current rivals, not to its predecessors. As standards of design and manufacture evolve, it will inevitably sometimes happen that a product whose previous version was close to the class-leaders of its day, will be way off the pace in a present-day setting. When this happens, it is simply the result of how good its present-day rivals are.

Clear? Good.

Secondly, on the subject of our testing rooms:

4LKN4 suggests that a normal living room doesn't sound like an acoustically treated room. Fine. What his argument fails to recognise is that a 'normal' living room also sounds completely unlike every other 'normal' living room.

What is the most reliable way of comparing two products? By reducing the variables, minimising all the factors - other than the performance of the products concerned - that could possibly influence the results.

Because our readers all listen in rooms that sound different, we serve them best by meticulously testing the kit in a room that doesn't impinge on the sound. Otherwise, we would only be serving those readers whose room happens to sound like ours.

Clear? Good.

Right, it's officially the weekend so I suggest you all go out and get steaming drunk.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Nope, I still prefer my 'dalek in a massive concrete cube' explanation.

 

[Anonymous]

In your case, I suggest you go out and get steaming drunk with a dalek.

 

[Andrew Everard]

dominic dawes:In your case, I suggest you go out and get steaming drunk with a dalek.

Totally exterminated? Good plan...

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:Nope, I still prefer my 'dalek in a massive concrete cube' explanation.

Surely more "Dalek in a bunker"...

 

[Andrew Everard]

Gary Mardell:
Surely more "Dalek in a bunker"...

Isn't that a Smiths song?

 

[Anonymous]

Andrew Everard:
Gary Mardell:
Surely more "Dalek in a bunker"...

Isn't that a Smiths song?

You're getting confused with Dalek in A Coma.

 

[Andrew Everard]

Gary Mardell:Andrew Everard:
Gary Mardell:
Surely more "Dalek in a bunker"...

Isn't that a Smiths song?

You're getting confused with Dalek in A Coma.

Ah yes, my mistake.

 

[Anonymous]

I think some people get wound up over the whole 5 star thing. Yes I agree to know you own a what hifi 5 star product does make you feel more confident about your purchase but more then this you should always read what the speakers negatives are as this is usually the decider. I was confused when I came across the Q acoustics 1010i review giving it 4 stars when the previous model was a 5 star award winner but as Clare said this was because the competition had increased and although still a good speaker its no longer the best in its price bracket. Im not backing the what hifi team but for most people even listening to 2 sets of speakers is a confusing job (let alone lifting heavy floorstanders all day) so well done and thank you.

 

[Anonymous]

dominic dawes:As standards of design and manufacture evolve, it will inevitably sometimes happen that a product whose previous version was close to the class-leaders of its day, will be way off the pace in a present-day setting. When this happens, it is simply the result of how good its present-day rivals areThe KEF's "main modern day rivals" haven't changed, so this is a moot point. The new KEF's are far from "way off mark".

Secondly, on the subject of our testing rooms:4LKN4 suggests that a normal living room doesn't sound like an acoustically treated room. Fine. What his argument fails to recognise is that a 'normal' living room also sounds completely unlike every other 'normal' living room.While this may be true, they have one thing in common. NORMAL. Yes, there's variances on this normal, but they're still the sort of room the buying public will have. How many living rooms sound like an expensively acoustically treated listening room?

Ok, if all these speakers are tested in special rooms, why is there no mention of what type of rooms these speakers will suit? You can tell whether a speaker will be heavier on bass or treble happy in a treated room, so why no mention of this? Rather than just saying 'this speaker is way off the mark, stay away'.

What is the most reliable way of comparing two products? By reducing the variables, minimising all the factors - other than the performance of the products concerned - that could possibly influence the results.Personal opinions will affect a review far more than a room will. The most reliable way to review products is for the reviewer not to know what they're listening to, and produce a review based on Speakers A and Speakers B and so on. This ensures a product gets a fair review.

Because our readers all listen in rooms that sound different, we serve them best by meticulously testing the kit in a room that doesn't impinge on the sound. Otherwise, we would only be serving those readers whose room happens to sound like oursBut you are serving people with rooms like yours (ie, none). If nobody has a room that sounds like yours, then any of these products are not going to sound the same at all, some will behave totally differently.

 

[Anonymous]

dominic dawes:
ÿClear? Good.

ÿRight, it's officially the weekend so I suggest you all go out and get steaming drunk.ÿ

Nice idea, until the crowds start pouring back in...ÿ