What has changed in hifi in the last 10 years? seems everything is still the same

[Tarxman]

Maybe we live in very different parts of the country then. Our most popular product for over a year now has been turntables, and despite not really having promoted the fact we now sell vinyl, people we have never seen before are turning up to have a look and purchase - old and young. What makes this surge more significant over any previous ones is that if you go back 10-15 years and the numerous "vinyl is making a comeback" claims, availability was still limited. This time round, almost every new release is being released on vinyl (obviously the record companies are seeing a trend). I've bought stuff In the past few years that I never thought I'd own on vinyl.

Same thing is happening over here in Australia too, David. Australia's music body, ARIA, just announced record sales were up 100% versus 2012, and in my store, we're almost moving through turntables as fast as AVR's.

 

[relocated]

Maybe we live in very different parts of the country then. Our most popular product for over a year now has been turntables, and despite not really having promoted the fact we now sell vinyl, people we have never seen before are turning up to have a look and purchase - old and young. What makes this surge more significant over any previous ones is that if you go back 10-15 years and the numerous "vinyl is making a comeback" claims, availability was still limited. This time round, almost every new release is being released on vinyl (obviously the record companies are seeing a trend). I've bought stuff In the past few years that I never thought I'd own on vinyl.

Same thing is happening over here in Australia too, David. Australia's music body, ARIA, just announced record sales were up 100% versus 2012, and in my store, we're almost moving through turntables as fast as AVR's.

Yes huge increases in percentage terms, but as has been said; still insignificant numbers against digital. For younger people [and the saddos mirroring them] vinyl may well be ón trend' but, as with all fashion, it is here today and gone tomorrow.

Never let a new vinyl department get in the way of putting vinyl in its correct overall market position. :O

 

[The_Lhc]

Yes huge increases in percentage terms, but as has been said; still insignificant numbers against digital. For younger people [and the saddos mirroring them] vinyl may well be ón trend' but, as with all fashion, it is here today and gone tomorrow.

Possibly but the trend has been on-going for at least three years now, if not longer (I can't be bothered to actually check).

 

[The_Lhc]

I still don't know anyone outside of enthusiast forums who would ever think of buying an LP.

That's because you're an old fart, according to the figures most of the vinyl resurgance is being lead by Twenty-somethings.

EDIT: excerpt from the annual BBC "Isn't vinyl popular?" news story:

Earlier in the year, research showed under-25s had been the driving force behind the surge in sales for vinyl records over the past five years.

Research by ICM suggested 18 to 24-year-olds were buying more vinyl records than any other age group under 50.

 

[The_Lhc]

Biggest change by far (in terms of audio) has been the surge in popularity of digital downloads and the decline of CD.

'...surge in popularity of digital downloads AND vinyl...'

Is vinyl more popular now than 10 years ago?

In the UK it's more popular (in terms of new sales) than it was 12 years ago according to the Telegraph's article (which is basically the same as the BBC page).

 

[chebby]

...the trend has been on-going for at least three years now, if not longer (I can't be bothered to actually check).

YTD figures in October* claim 550,000 LP sales in 2013 (estimated 700,000 by end-of-year).

0.8 pecent of all album sales. (0.1 percent in 2007). 100 percent more than were sold last year.

About £12 million sales by end-of-year.**

So still b###er all in the great scheme of things.

*BPI figures

** Of course these are only brand-new LP sales figures.

 

[BenLaw]

Yes but if the 100% year on year increase in market share continues, then all albums sold will be vinyl within seven years

 

[chebby]

Yes but if the 100% year on year increase in market share continues, then all albums sold will be vinyl within seven years

Unlikely. By that time the newly resurrected music-cassettes, 78 rpm records and 8-tracks will be eating into vinyl sales

 

[The_Lhc]

So still b###er all in the great scheme of things.

Yes but that wasn't the question though, it was a) is it more popular than it was ten years ago (yes) and b) is it just a passing fad (not on current evidence).

 

[chebby]

So still b###er all in the great scheme of things.

Yes but that wasn't the question though...

I wasn't answering any questions. Just reporting the BPI figures and commenting on their insignificance.

 

[JMacMan]

Maybe we live in very different parts of the country then. Our most popular product for over a year now has been turntables, and despite not really having promoted the fact we now sell vinyl, people we have never seen before are turning up to have a look and purchase - old and young. What makes this surge more significant over any previous ones is that if you go back 10-15 years and the numerous "vinyl is making a comeback" claims, availability was still limited. This time round, almost every new release is being released on vinyl (obviously the record companies are seeing a trend). I've bought stuff In the past few years that I never thought I'd own on vinyl.

Same thing is happening over here in Australia too, David. Australia's music body, ARIA, just announced record sales were up 100% versus 2012, and in my store, we're almost moving through turntables as fast as AVR's.

Turntables at Hardly Normals? Goodness, what's the world coming to....LOL

I see that Encels are shutting up shop though - which is quite significant given both their size, and notoriety for several decades amongst the audiophile scene.

If Tivoli HiFi were next to go, (which wouldn't suprise me) Melbourne would have lost the majority of the so called high end HiFi stores as regards 2 channel, high end boutiques.

Fiddling about with two channel audio as a hobby is definitely on the way out in anything other than a micro niche amongst baby boomers as far as I can see, and Turntables/vinyl are likely to be a soon forgtten blip upon a fashionable 'retro' stage.

IMHO of course....but there is litte doubt in my mind that the high end two channel audio store, the customers and sales that went with it, just isn't there in anything like the numbers that used to be around - it's basically a 'hobby' that appears to be dying out with baby boomers essentially.

AV? different matter - I'd argue that for non audio obsessed folks, the TV is the centre piece of an AV entertainment system that provides more than adequate performance for a family who like good sound, good picture, and want a reliable brand with excellent value for money, and who have almost zero interest in audiophile obsessing about with kit.

A top end Sony HT in a box system would keep most sane customers happy, or step up to something that offers more flexibility and expansion, with say an Yamaha Adventage AVR + Bluray player + Dynaudio or B&W speakers, and most families would be very happy indeed, with excellent sound and value, and more than enough expansion possibiltes for a growing family wishing to play diverse media.

Nice to see another Australian here BTW.

PS: I used to work for the Good (Bad) Guys years ago, and we always called you lot Hardly Normal, but please don't hold that against me.... LOL

Best Regards and Merry Xmas!

JMac...

 

[chebby]

...it's basically a 'hobby' that appears to be dying out with baby boomers essentially.

A 'generation' born between the end of WW2 and the mid 1960s.

So you are going to need to wait for a long time yet (some of them aren't quite out of their forties and will still be earning for the bulk of the next two decades).

The oldest ones have only retired in the last few years (and a lot of them have 'full-fat' pensions to continue indulging themselves well into old age).

Not only that, but you haven't accounted for people like this 'baby boomer' (only just) who have welcomed smartphones, tablets, iTunes, AirPlay, wireless, streaming etc. It was (is still) a 'technical' generation that grew up with computers and a raft of other scientific/technical breakthroughs and have a tendency to adopt new tech rather than reject it.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Is vinyl more popular now than 10 years ago?

Seems so, and that's understandable given that a far wider range is now available. It has the potential to be much bigger too because of this factor.

 

[WishTree]

HiFi Industry thrives mostly on repeat customers. Though there might be an actual increase in the customer base but the revenues do come in from the repeat purchases by the same customers which includes

- Replacement of dead products: This must be smallest reason for purchase as the products lasts longer

- Upgrades: Which could be for enhancement of SQ, mostly a pereceived reason and different presentation due to change in listening habbits, which is most likely the actual reason. IMO, this has the highest foot fall into HiFi industry revenue line, though this might not be really sustainable! C'mon - how many times can I be convinced to upgrade my equipment??!!

- Adoption to new / different media: There are two branches here. Digital media, which seems more convenience and customer driven and so new product ranges including DACs (stand alone as well as integrated) are offered.The DAC offerings are mostly flavor driven under the disguise of enhanced SQ to get the most bucks from our pockets. The second branch is the old media - Vinyl. this is where HiFi industry is currently fosuccsing and is driven by the industry primarily. Yes, there is customer pull but IMO, there is more industry push here. The reason being simple, compared to a DAC/streamer/player, a record player is mechanical nauture and that in itself is prone to more failures or pereceived SQ enhancements based on the tweaks which gives a lot of playing field to the HiFi industry once the customer is hooked on to it. This is such an uphill task for the HiFi industry as it has to ask the customer to forego the convenience of digital media and go for more involving / incoveneint method of consuming music (obviously by glorifying the act of vinyl change - be it nostalgic or physical exercise etc etc). The trump card here is the SQ. Some how any (most) body who is into the hobby of HiFi is kind of made to believe, for the lack of a better metric I use money, that a 500 Pound TT plays better than any many DACs. IME, you need to really dig deep into your pockets for an expensive TT say upward 2K pounds to experience, if any, of the vinyl glory and if some one gives a similar monetary commitment to DAC and pre, I am very sure the sonic experience would be definetly no less but far more convenient to listen to music.

- Sensitivity: This where the industry tricks us again by giving a lower sensitive speakers in may be sub 2K range so that the consumer has to spend on a substantially more on a powerful amp and the amps current ratings are some times mediocre that it gets tricky to understand what went wrong where. To be noticed most high end speakers have sensitivy of 90db+

Some thoughts from top of the head.

 

[georgebushy]

buying vynyl seem amazingly stupid and outdated..... I mean you have to still turn the lp around in th emiddle of the album?

even if it sound better than cd

but people obviously dont care abou the cd quality and use mp3 instead with horrible quality

 

[The_Lhc]

buying vynyl seem amazingly stupid and outdated..... I mean you have to still turn the lp around in th emiddle of the album?

even if it sound better than cd

I can see why that might be troublesome for you...

 

[steve_1979]

Also on a side note... the souless manufactured rubbish they push in mainstream pop music hasn't done any favours to 'hifi quality' music over the past 10 years.

Got nothing to do with it, pop music has been soulless manufactured rubbish for 50 years...

Oh no! The 80's was great for pop music. :dance:

 

[mikeparker59]

RE: What has changed in hifi in the last 10 years? BenLaw wrote:
Yes but if the 100% year on year increase in market share continues, then all albums sold will be vinyl within seven years

Unlikely. By that time the newly resurrected music-cassettes, 78 rpm records and 8-tracks will be eating into vinyl sales

Oh God please no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :help:

 

[The_Lhc]

Also on a side note... the souless manufactured rubbish they push in mainstream pop music hasn't done any favours to 'hifi quality' music over the past 10 years.

Got nothing to do with it, pop music has been soulless manufactured rubbish for 50 years...

Oh no! The 80's was great for pop music. :dance:

Yes, those SAW records were just oozing soul...

 

[Native_bon]

HiFi Industry thrives mostly on repeat customers. Though there might be an actual increase in the customer base but the revenues do come in from the repeat purchases by the same customers which includes

- Replacement of dead products: This must be smallest reason for purchase as the products lasts longer

- Upgrades: Which could be for enhancement of SQ, mostly a pereceived reason and different presentation due to change in listening habbits, which is most likely the actual reason. IMO, this has the highest foot fall into HiFi industry revenue line, though this might not be really sustainable! C'mon - how many times can I be convinced to upgrade my equipment??!!

- Adoption to new / different media: There are two branches here. Digital media, which seems more convenience and customer driven and so new product ranges including DACs (stand alone as well as integrated) are offered.The DAC offerings are mostly flavor driven under the disguise of enhanced SQ to get the most bucks from our pockets. The second branch is the old media - Vinyl. this is where HiFi industry is currently fosuccsing and is driven by the industry primarily. Yes, there is customer pull but IMO, there is more industry push here. The reason being simple, compared to a DAC/streamer/player, a record player is mechanical nauture and that in itself is prone to more failures or pereceived SQ enhancements based on the tweaks which gives a lot of playing field to the HiFi industry once the customer is hooked on to it. This is such an uphill task for the HiFi industry as it has to ask the customer to forego the convenience of digital media and go for more involving / incoveneint method of consuming music (obviously by glorifying the act of vinyl change - be it nostalgic or physical exercise etc etc). The trump card here is the SQ. Some how any (most) body who is into the hobby of HiFi is kind of made to believe, for the lack of a better metric I use money, that a 500 Pound TT plays better than any many DACs. IME, you need to really dig deep into your pockets for an expensive TT say upward 2K pounds to experience, if any, of the vinyl glory and if some one gives a similar monetary commitment to DAC and pre, I am very sure the sonic experience would be definetly no less but far more convenient to listen to music.

- Sensitivity: This where the industry tricks us again by giving a lower sensitive speakers in may be sub 2K range so that the consumer has to spend on a substantially more on a powerful amp and the amps current ratings are some times mediocre that it gets tricky to understand what went wrong where. To be noticed most high end speakers have sensitivy of 90db+

Some thoughts from top of the head.

You could not have said it better!! :cheers:

 

[JamesMellor]

The sales graph on this page seems to show they're are not quite back upto 2003 levels, but close, new sales only of course but shows a trend, who knows how active the 2nd hand market is .

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/oct/17/uk-vinyl-sales-daft-punk-david-bowie

Overall music sales are in decline , is that down to theft over the internet or an increase in the 2nd hand market or the shite they make now or all 3 ?

Or even Spotify , alot of people here seem to use it and pay for it , it's what £12.99 a month maybe the same as buying 15-20 cd's a year ? I doubt thats counted as sales in any way .

James

 

[BigH]

The sales graph on this page seems to show they're are not quite back upto 2003 levels, but close, new sales only of course but shows a trend, who knows how active the 2nd hand market is .

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2013/oct/17/uk-vinyl-sales-daft-punk-david-bowie

Overall music sales are in decline , is that down to theft over the internet or an increase in the 2nd hand market or the shite they make now or all 3 ?

Or even Spotify , alot of people here seem to use it and pay for it , it's what £12.99 a month maybe the same as buying 15-20 cd's a year ? I doubt thats counted as sales in any way .

James

Spotify Premium is £10 pm, many use the cheaper version at £5 or other services like Deezer which is only £5 pm now. Don't forget there is now a big used cd market, many can be bought for £0.01 plus postage (£1.26), they don't count as sales either, so you can get a lot of cds for £120.

 

[JamesMellor]

[/quote]

Spotify Premium is £10 pm, many use the cheaper version at £5 or other services like Deezer which is only £5 pm now. Don't forget there is now a big used cd market, many can be bought for £0.01 plus postage (£1.26), they don't count as sales either, so you can get a lot of cds for £120.

[/quote]

Even cheaper than I thought for Spotify then , £1.27 for a cd , you can make alot of mistakes at that price and still find a gem every so often and I guess the crap ones you can hang on your xmas tree cheaper than babblues <S>

James