Warning new addition to speaker scam!

insider9

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Wanted to give everyone a heads up. Not new subject but new addition to the scam.

Up until recently it was only Acoustic Energy speakers that were copied. Predominantly Acoustic Energy Reference 3 that knock offs were sold to unsuspecting people who thought they were getting a bargain (see if you can spot the difference)

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I've even been to email to Acoustic Energy and they're well aware of the scam and doing their best to stop it.

Today I've spotted a new addition to the scam. Advertised as MA AUDIO 300 WATT FLOORSTANDING SPEAKERS

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And that's what it was supposed to look like

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Person selling wants £499 which if you think you're getting the real deal of RRP £3,000 is a bargain!

Be careful out there.
 

NSA_watch_my_toilet

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I strongly believe that somebody can't be that "believing" when presented such an offer. A 3'000 pounds speaker for 500 is very suspicious from the start.

I saw some active ATC SCM50 on "leboncoin", to sold for 1'800 Euros. I checked the serial number and the peoples got arrested within 24 hours.

I would be pleased to have the opinion of chinese forum members about this, but I have the impression, that the chinese market in his globality can't be trusted when you are from outside.

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I must be very naive. I'd thought only relatively small items like headphones were copied.

AE must be livid! They are based in a Cirencester, not far from where we used to live and a quick call would surely verify things. They do sell direct on eBay, as I recall. One of their people used to contribute here occasionally too.
 

insider9

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NSA_watch_my_toilet said:
I strongly believe that somebody can't be that "believing" when presented such an offer. A 3'000 pounds speaker for 500 is very suspicious from the start.

I saw some active ATC SCM50 on "leboncoin", to sold for 1'800 Euros. I checked the serial number and the peoples got arrested within 24 hours.

I would be pleased to have the opinion of chinese forum members about this, but I have the impression, that the chinese market in his globality can't be trusted when you are from outside.
I take it, it's Switzerland you're taking about. I've reported every ad I've seen with counterfeit speakers. They eventually get taken down but not aware of anyone getting into trouble here in the UK.
 

insider9

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nopiano said:
I must be very naive.  I'd thought only relatively small items like headphones were copied.

AE must be livid!  They are based in a Cirencester, not far from where we used to live and a quick call would surely verify things.  They do sell direct on eBay, as I recall. One of their people used to contribute here occasionally too.
AE are livid indeed! I've never owned their speakers but contacted them a while back as it was only their speakers targeted.

Now it's Monitor Audio who joined the list. Emailed them as well.

People think it's a bargain if you get a pair of speakers at 10% of RRP so don't ask that many questions.

Some poor fella is going to get what looks like a cheese grater instead of a ribbon tweeter.
 

chebby

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nopiano said:
AE must be livid!

Not really. The genuine manufacturers are not losing sales because none of the people buying the 'bargain' copies would ever pay full-price for the proper item in an official dealer's shop. They only want cheap gear.

They are not losing sales or customers.

Monitor audio have NOT lost £3000 of sales when some tightwad pays £500 for a clone. He'd never pay £3000 for the real deal anyway, and never will. Even if all the clones suddenly disappeared he'd find something from the back of a white van, or from some bloke in a pub carpark in his quest for a bargain.
 

chebby

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insider9 said:
nopiano said:
I must be very naive. I'd thought only relatively small items like headphones were copied.

AE must be livid! They are based in a Cirencester, not far from where we used to live and a quick call would surely verify things. They do sell direct on eBay, as I recall. One of their people used to contribute here occasionally too.
AE are livid indeed! I've never owned their speakers but contacted them a while back as it was only their speakers targeted.

Now it's Monitor Audio who joined the list. Emailed them as well.

People think it's a bargain if you get a pair of speakers at 10% of RRP so don't ask that many questions.

Some poor fella is going to get what looks like a cheese grater instead of a ribbon tweeter.

It's been happening forever (even before the internet). If you expect £3000 speakers for £500 then you deserve cheese graters! No sympathy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_van_speaker_scam
 

insider9

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chebby said:
nopiano said:
AE must be livid!

Not really.  The genuine manufacturers are not losing sales because none of the people buying the 'bargain' copies would ever pay full-price for the proper item in an official dealer's shop. They only want cheap gear.

They are not losing sales or customers.

Monitor audio have NOT lost £3000 of sales when some tightwad pays £500 for a clone. He'd never pay £3000 for the real deal anyway, and never will. Even if all the clones suddenly disappeared he'd find something from the back of a white van, or from some bloke in a pub carpark in his quest for a bargain.
I know where you are coming from but people's circumstances change. Some teenager who now buys a knock off will not end up buying the real AE after he graduates and is able to afford them. People are more likely to share bad experiences than good so his whole family and friends will also have a rather poor opinion. All they are going to remember is "AE" "scam" "poor quality".

The brand association with scammers alone can damage company's reputation.
 

insider9

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chebby said:
If you expect £3000 speakers for £500 then you deserve cheese graters! No sympathy.

Well I do have sympathy, hence posted this. Just hope it's not some mother/wife who overheard a name of speakers in a conversation and decided to get them as a surprise Christmas present.
 

Benedict_Arnold

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insider9 said:
chebby said:
If you expect £3000 speakers for £500 then you deserve cheese graters! No sympathy.

Well I do have sympathy, hence posted this. Just hope it's not some mother/wife who overheard a name of speakers in a conversation and decided to get them as a surprise Christmas present.

That's the real problem with counterfeit goods of any ilk. Not so much the punter who knows he or she is buying knock-off gear, like the sort of person who buys a "Rolex" for 20 quid from a market stall, but the person who uniwttingly buys the stuff for their husband / wife / kid / significant other / intended recipient only to find out it's fake on Christmas morning. Added to which, it usually has a "double whammy" effect, as the people buying knock-off stuff don't tend to be that well off, so a 500 quid hit to the bank account can be a major blow.

Then, of course, there's the issue of trying to get any kind of warranty or refund if the things don't work and the added danger with anything electrical that shoddy goods could burn your house down.

Old motto: If it looks too good to be true, it usually is.
 

manix

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Can't see how it's a scam it's no more than a look a bit similar at a stretch with a name MA Audio 300 which unless someone has a copyright to 'MA audio 300' they have done absolutelty nothing wrong. Spare up your time instead of worrying about such things.

Edit - TBH you would be a total idiot if you thought they were Monitor audio 300 gold
 

insider9

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manix said:
Can't see how it's a scam it's no more than a look a bit similar at a stretch with a name MA Audio 300 which unless someone has a copyright to 'MA audio 300' they have done absolutelty nothing wrong. Spare up your time instead of worrying about such things.

Edit - TBH you would be a total idiot if you thought they were Monitor audio 300 gold

I'm just fine managing my time, thanks for your concern.

I'm also not worried about it but thought others might find this tip helpful. I also wouldn't be so quick to judge the inteligence of people who fall victims of scams of any kind.
 

Gazzip

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I got done like a kipper over some moody XLO cables from Shenzhen.

I should have known, but the deal was so good (not too good) that it blinded me to the obvious. Upon receipt I hated their sound and decided to sell 'em on straight away. I actually only found out they were fakes when I was trying to sell them and a potential buyer identified them as counterfeit from the photos. A quick dispute via PayPal and the threat of alerting the local Shenzhen constabulary soon elicited the requisite refund. A dirty business though...

The silver lining for me is that because I immediately identified the sound was so crap I have confirmed to myself that I have golden ears! *pardon*
 

manix

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insider9 said:
manix said:
Can't see how it's a scam it's no more than a look a bit similar at a stretch with a name MA Audio 300 which unless someone has a copyright to 'MA audio 300' they have done absolutelty nothing wrong. Spare up your time instead of worrying about such things.

Edit - TBH you would be a total idiot if you thought they were Monitor audio 300 gold

I'm just fine managing my time, thanks for your concern.

I'm also not worried about it but thought others might find this tip helpful. I also wouldn't be so quick to judge the inteligence of people who fall victims of scams of any kind.

Tell me how anyone would think they are Montior Audio 300 gold? Nowhere does it say on anything Monitor Audio. They don't look like the speakers. No one is going to spend £500 on them thinking they are the £3000 speakers.

You say it's a scam please explain how it's a scam? The name isn't the same, they don't look the same and most importantly they aren't pretending to be anything other than they are.
 

insider9

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manix said:
Tell me how anyone would think they are Montior Audio 300 gold? Nowhere does it say on anything Monitor Audio. They don't look like the speakers. No one is going to spend £500 on them thinking they are the £3000 speakers.

You say it's a scam please explain how it's a scam? The name isn't the same, they don't look the same and most importantly they aren't pretending to be anything other than they are.

Ok, I don't mean this as a turtorial for potential scammers though. I'm only describing my findings and theories. To an audio enthusiast that's been interested in audio gear for a while perhaps not. To someone just starting or simply who wants some decent speakers it most certainly may. I believe this ad is just a begining and many are to follow. Let me start by explaining the background and the warning signs.

I believe the earlier mentioned white van speaker scam had to evolve. People are not as trustworthy as they used to, to buy speakers off the back of the van. If it's a trusted site such as eBay (Gumtree, who are owned by eBay) that have been known to offer great bargains at times, it's a different matter.

For scammers it would be important to preserve plausible deniability so vagueness would be important. The perception of what is legal and not also change with time. People were also educated by many well publicised law suits and cop/court tv series.

Warning signs would be the coincidental (in your opinion) names AE Reference Series - 3 or AER Series 3 or like this instance MA Audio 300. On this very forum as in our everyday lives we abreviate many things. I'm not from a generation LOL or LMAO but these are more than common nowadays. Many members will abreviate Monitor Audio as MA, Acoustic Energy as AE, etc. To unwitting person such abreviation is normal and not suspicious.

Coincidental physical likeness. Position of tweeter, number/colur of drivers, size of drivers. What sonic purpose/advantage do you think that tweeter shaped like a cheese grater has? It's blatant design to make it look like a ribbon. Likeness of logos AER in a oval as opposed to ((AE))

What's more most of these seller would have said they've pretty much don't know the actual origin of items they sell. Actual examples"My brother is a DJ and he gave me these speakers as a gift but i am a student and need the money." or "I'm a sound engineer and this was given to me as a gift and they're too big for my space."

Claiming ignorance here is dual purpose, I guess. In case they're caught they deny any wrong doing. But most importantly for the person who's about to get conned to think they've "outsmarted" the seller. For me it's basic rules of trade. Any trade is when, a selling person values the item they sell as less in value than the cash they're receiving and the buying person values the item they're buying as more in value than the cash they're parting with.

If you think you're getting a bargain of the century you will pay first and ask questions later or it may be gone. Or at least that what happens too many times.

Of course what you're buying will be in new condition "They are studio quality brand new in the box. We only took them out of the box to take the pictures."

Next signs are they will not want to meet at their house. Offer courier for "your" convenience. "Courier is very easy, I will use DPD or another big company. What's your top price mate, these are top quality big speakers?"

Offer excuses as to why these can't be demoed "I do get that but my brother played them for me using his equipment but he had the wire needed to use them. I don't have the wire."

Finally they won't put you off that much by haggling just to get the sale. Will gladly lower their ridiculous asking price. "Okay, I am very flexible with my price but I just want to try and get as much as I can."

Yes there will be more arogant attempts like AE had to face and they're sadly still to come (I believe). Blatant use of stock photos. Copy and paste of specs and references to high RRP. I won't post links here but you can check completed listing for Acoustic Energy Reference 3 on eBay. Out of all[/b] completed listings only one pair is genuine.

Wouldn't we all want to buy/get a vintage Mark Levinson amp sold by someone who think it's worthless. Not just that a pain to move as it's so heavy...

If this thread helps even one person from getting conned it was worth it.
 

chebby

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If it makes you happier, I have reported this item to ebay as a fake ...

clicky

You'd have to be stoopid to buy them as the manufacturer's description doesn't even match the information in the 'Detailed item information' (AER 3 vs Acoustic Energy Reference 1) let alone the looks! picture.

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chebby

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chebby said:
If it makes you happier, I have reported this item to ebay as a fake ...

clicky

'AER 3' Listing ended.

I'll keep a little eye out for similar. The speakers were 'collection only' from Nottingham but located in Ludlow so that's worth looking out for. One should remain a constant even if the ebay seller ID changes.

It won't put him out of business but i'd like to give him a headache.

He'll at least have to reprint the box labels as i'm going use that info (and variants thereof) as a basis for my searches.
 

chebby

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Going for this one now.

Seller's ID also lists Nottingham as a location.

Reported.

Also sent ebay URLs for all of the many MA Audio 300 auctions to Monitor Audio in an email just in case they want to act on them.
 

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