Warmer sound required

[mond]

If you do decide to change the amp, then there is one of these for sale on a well known auction site at the moment within your budget (just)

Class A with some valves; that should warm things up a bit.

 

[CnoEvil]

If you do decide to change the amp, then there is one of these for sale on a well known auction site at the moment within your budget (just)

Class A with some valves; that should warm things up a bit.

Nice!

 

[Gonepostal]

Thanks for the suggestions. The Denon dra 100 interests me. Has anyone got any experience with this amp. Do you think it would be an upgrade on my Marantz or just a sideways step ?

 

[steve_1979]

Q Acoustics speakers are warmer and more gentle in the treble.

Also adding a small subwoofer can help give a warmer sound too. The BK Acoustics Gemini II is good without costing the earth.

 

[Gonepostal]

Thanks for the suggestions. Thinking might look into the Yamaha Rn602 even though it's built like a tank.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

Thanks for the suggestions. Thinking might look into the Yamaha Rn602 even though it's built like a tank.

it should be ok it says on the Yamaha website that it will do 105 watts in 4 ohm load which is what the Dali Zensor 5 which are a 4ohm speaker and 80 Watts in 8 ohms

are you in the uk ? If you are you could buy the Yamaha Rn602 from richer sounds and if you find it’s not to your liking you can take it back without losing out money wise .

 

[plastic penguin]

The problem is finding that right balance. If you go too warm you lose out on other aspects, such as transparency, imaging... the same if you go too bright or lively, you tend to lose intimacy, emotion (call it what you will).

For example, the older Nad integrated amps such as the 352 you can cook an egg on the speaker cables. TBH, presentation-wise, they lose transparency... as dull as ditch water unless you have cloying speakers to rein back the warmth.

The OP needs to match a system that suits room acoustics. In turn, that should sound more agreeable.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

The problem is finding that right balance. If you go too warm you lose out on other aspects, such as transparency, imaging... the same if you go too bright or lively, you tend to lose intimacy, emotion (call it what you will).

For example, the older Nad integrated amps such as the 352 you can cook an egg on the speaker cables. TBH, presentation-wise, they lose transparency... as dull as ditch water unless you have cloying speakers to rein back the warmth.

The OP needs to match a system that suits room acoustics. In turn, that should sound more agreeable.

id agree with you to an extent but you can get speakers with really good low end punch and richness but a different presentation in the mid range - call it bright, trebeley or conversely smooth mids. So I’m not sure you can relate bass richness with good detailed mids to say emotion is lost.

 

[seemorebtts]

I think you should reconsider most of what you have. If you want a warmer pleasant sound you should be looking at a pair of sonus Faber chameleon. These will give it to you in spades but I would be looking for a second hand Arcam a19 which can be had for £300 on eBay. Your Dali's are great Speaker's but I'm afraid they ent your taste

 

[gasolin]

Dali zensor's are usually bright, try Mission LX-2 or Dynaudio Emit M10 both have a warmer sound and doesn't seem as bright as dali zensor.

Dali zensor's should also NOT be angled towards the listening possition or else the brightness can be enhanced

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

The Dali zensor Little floorstander actives at the indulgence show were really nice and balanced. Smooth and no treble harshness. But passives could be different I accept.

 

[davedotco]

The Dali zensor Little floorstander actives at the indulgence show were really nice and balanced. Smooth and no treble harshness. But passives could be different I accept.

The Zenzor 5ax that you heard at the show are not active.

They are simple powered passives with Bluetooth and basic pre-amp facilities. The 'master' carries the inputs and stereo amplifier, one channel of which connects to the 'slave' speaker via a length of regular speaker cable.

As far as I can tell, the speaker itself is pretty much the same as a normal Zensor 5, if the 5ax sounded good, then the passive version with decent amplification should sound at least as good. As a general observation, I do not usually find the Zensors bright, they are reasonably even handed to my ears.

Dali do in fact make a rather good active, called the Kubik. For a variety of reasons it does not appear to be all that popular which is a shame, much better than the 5ax.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

ive Never really liked Dali, as I think the cheaper ones are quite forceful and the more expensive ones not as refined as some speakers of different makes. But you can often never apply a rule accross a brand, as there will always be one which sounds decent and stands out.

Isnt a powered passive the same as an active? I know one of them doesn’t have amplification.

 

[insider9]

ive Never really liked Dali, as I think the cheaper ones are quite forceful and the more expensive ones not as refined as some speakers of different makes. But you can often never apply a rule accross a brand, as there will always be one which sounds decent and stands out. 

Isnt a powered passive the same as an active? I know one of them doesn’t have amplification. 

I've liked just about every Dali speaker I've heard and owned a few (exception being Zensor 1).

Passive and active have nothing to do with being powered but how and most importantly where a crossover is implemented. There can be powered passives (e.g. Zensor 5ax) and un-powered actives (e.g. many Linn speakers).

Oh and adding to the mix there can be semi-actives also where for instance a bass driver is used active and mid to tweeter has a passive crossover.

I have a pair of speakers that I modified and they can be used passive or active. And in neither version they are powered.

 

[davedotco]

ive Never really liked Dali, as I think the cheaper ones are quite forceful and the more expensive ones not as refined as some speakers of different makes. But you can often never apply a rule accross a brand, as there will always be one which sounds decent and stands out.

Isnt a powered passive the same as an active? I know one of them doesn’t have amplification.

Not remotely.

Given the number of active speaker threads on this forum in recent times I would have hoped that posters would be better informed, sadly it appears not to be the case.

This is of course compounded by the industry that tends to use 'powered' and 'active' almost interchangeably, Dali, who make true active speakers, call their Zenzor powered models, active, which is misleading.

The defining feature of an active design is the use of a line level elecronic crossover, in which the high and low frequencies (in a two way setup) are split before the amplifiers which then handle only those frequencies sent to them by the crossover. The power amps are then connected directly to the appropriate drive units using regular speaker type cable, there are no passive crossovers between the amplifiers and the drive units.

with active speakers, the physical location of the electronics and amplifiers is irrelevant, plenty of proper active systems use outboard amplifiers that can be chosen or changed by the user, both pro and enthusiast. Powered speakers on the other hand will have amplifiers on board what are otherwise regular passive speakers, many powered speakers use the 'master/slave' configuration like the Zenzor ax system, though this primarily for convenience.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

ive Never really liked Dali, as I think the cheaper ones are quite forceful and the more expensive ones not as refined as some speakers of different makes. But you can often never apply a rule accross a brand, as there will always be one which sounds decent and stands out.

Isnt a powered passive the same as an active? I know one of them doesn’t have amplification.

sorry but I think your wrong Dali speakers can be good with the right amplifier hooked up to them some of the cheapest models can come across a little bight or forward but some people might like this about a speaker .

ive owned Dali zensor 3s , Dali opticon 6s And now Dali opticon 8s none of theses speakers are bright but they can be with the wrong amplifier as I changed 2 amplifiers that year in trying to get a sonic match with Dali opticon 6s because I knew I could get more out of the speakers because I believe in working with the speakers and I was right because 6 months later I brought the opticon 8s which are a step up on the Dali opticon 6s because the Dali opticon 8s use a bigger cabinet to move more air and bigger bass drivers and I knew they were worth the investment but my Dali opticon 8s are smooth and very refined , detailed , excellent low end bass , good midrange , clean sounding speakers but put them with the wrong amplifier then I understand why you think as you do about Dali speakers .

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

The Dali Opticon 6 was never one known for being refined, and if you compared it to say the Tannoy xt6f or xt8f totally different on refinement stakes. Speakers like the Opticon 8 are competing with floorstanders from brands like pmc, spendor, atc, and neat, all British brands which consistently outclass Dali imho. Dali can be a clean sounding speaker but the control of bass of something like a pro ac dt8 around same money, is better. Not as balanced with Dali on bass and treble intergration, and you notice control of bass is not quite up there and dynamically too.

 

[seemorebtts]

ive Never really liked Dali, as I think the cheaper ones are quite forceful and the more expensive ones not as refined as some speakers of different makes. But you can often never apply a rule accross a brand, as there will always be one which sounds decent and stands out. 

Isnt a powered passive the same as an active? I know one of them doesn’t have amplification. 

sorry but I think your wrong Dali speakers can be good with the right amplifier hooked up to them some of the cheapest models can come across a little bight or forward but some people might like this about a speaker .

ive owned Dali zensor 3s , Dali opticon 6s And now Dali opticon 8s none of theses speakers are bright but they can be with the wrong amplifier as I changed 2 amplifiers that year in trying to get a sonic match with Dali opticon 6s because I knew I could get more out of the speakers because I believe in working with the speakers and I was right because 6 months later I brought the opticon 8s which are a step up on the Dali opticon 6s because the Dali opticon 8s use a bigger cabinet to move more air and bigger bass drivers and I knew they were worth the investment but my Dali opticon 8s are smooth and very refined , detailed , excellent low end bass , good midrange , clean sounding speakers but put them with the wrong amplifier then I understand why you think as you do about Dali speakers .

 

I could listen to Dali and Arcam alday and never get bored.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

The Dali Opticon 6 was never one known for being refined, and if you compared it to say the Tannoy xt6f or xt8f totally different on refinement stakes. Speakers like the Opticon 8 are competing with floorstanders from brands like pmc, spendor, atc, and neat, all British brands which consistently outclass Dali imho. Dali can be a clean sounding speaker but the control of bass of something like a pro ac dt8 around same money, is better. Not as balanced with Dali on bass and treble intergration, and you notice control of bass is not quite up there and dynamically too.

I’ve heard the Tannoy’s the opticon 6 And 8 out class them easily the Tannoys are not as clear as the Dali’s are

the salesman thought the same when I brought my opticon 8s so I showed him what the opticon’s could do with a good amplifier hooked up to them so at the time I owned abrahamsen 2up amplifier and I went back with my amplifier and showed him and he gob just fell open and said I didn’t realise that the opticon’s could sound so good he liked the tannoys too and tried to sell me some but I thought they sounded rubbish it’s down to a good clean sounding amplifier that can control bass properly a amplifier that’s the boss of the speakers .

I am a bit of a Dali fanboy I must admit I like there speakers very much and the opticon’s are made in house in Denmark and they make everything from the cabinets to the drivers them selfs . How meany speaker companies make there own drives not meany they are brought in and Dali come out with new speaker technologies to try and get as close to music as possible which I feel they do a good job trying to achieve .

My next speakers will be Dali rubicon 8s ones ive saved the money so I do believe in the product very much so .

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I agree you get used to what you have had but on the original poster question, this Dali sound is not warm like those tannoys you refer to or the pro acs I mention, or pmcs etc. The Dalis are probably tuned to impress everyone on detail in the dealer showroom with a hike in high frequencies, like lots of monitor audios. But the control of bass comes from the speaker and amplifier together. Something like a pmc twenty 23 or spendor a6r would be a better balance for bass and treble than your Dalis imo. Just more musical. So it’s a preference thing for these areas. I’d have the tannoys over the 6 spec Dali as it suits this taste. What makes a speaker and amp combo really good is the way it can mesh detail and warmth together and is fast and dynamic.

 

[CnoEvil]

I have never heard Tannoys sound warm. In fact, I find they are clear and detailed, with controlled bass - and if wrongly matched, can sound shouty when the volume is turned up.

 

[seemorebtts]

I agree you get used to what you have had but on the original poster question, this Dali sound is not warm like those tannoys you refer to or the pro acs I mention, or pmcs etc. The Dalis are probably tuned to impress everyone on detail in the dealer showroom with a hike in high frequencies, like lots of monitor audios. But the control of bass comes from the speaker and amplifier together. Something like a pmc twenty 23 or spendor a6r would be a better balance for bass and treble than your Dalis imo. Just more musical. So it’s a preference thing for these areas. I’d have the tannoys over the 6 spec Dali as it suits this taste. What makes a speaker and amp combo really good is the way it can mesh detail and warmth together and is fast and dynamic.  

the Dali's have great warmth in the midrange and large warm bottom end more so than the tannoy. What Dali's have you heard ?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I think what I am trying to say is that not every speaker is perfect not even PMCs there will always be something lacking somewhere even with my own speakers . I believe in speaker and amplifier compatibility with each other not in watts but in the amplifiers own sonic trates and the speakers sonic trates get the two right and you will be rewarded it took me years and lots of money spent to get what I feel Is a perfect sound i am happy with .

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

Reply to hash 46

My old Tannoy dc6t se floorstander were rich sounding, refined, and pretty warm tonally, not anywhere like as smooth and warm and as bass dynamic as my pmcs or atcs etc driven really well, by virtue of pmcs ability to go low when demanded. The tannoys had a huge open sound with very big soundstage. Sound not coming from the speaker at all. And I was using a low powered cyrus 6dac at the time. Also reasonable detail and timing. But the overall big soundstage and ability of cabinets to move air and decent bass, Added to impression of warmth. Certainly not lacking. Also the fact that the bass was more tonal and less dynamic in the tannoys, always there, which unlike my pmcs is only there when it’s demanded in the music.

I think these qualities have been carried over into the xt6f and xt8f speakers which I think replaced the dc series or maybe a later range?

If you look at what the reviews say they are in agreement with this and the Dalis of similar prices by comparison get criticised for not being refined or as smooth. That’s why what hi Fi have tended to prefer the Tannoy sound I think. I think this comes from the preserve of experience of better speakers that once you’ve had the richness by bass depth and dynamics in these better speakers you’d never go back to speakers lacking in bass tonality, even at costs of detail perhaps. The better premium tannoys go up in warmth and detail like you’d expect.

 

[QuestForThe13thNote]

I agree you get used to what you have had but on the original poster question, this Dali sound is not warm like those tannoys you refer to or the pro acs I mention, or pmcs etc. The Dalis are probably tuned to impress everyone on detail in the dealer showroom with a hike in high frequencies, like lots of monitor audios. But the control of bass comes from the speaker and amplifier together. Something like a pmc twenty 23 or spendor a6r would be a better balance for bass and treble than your Dalis imo. Just more musical. So it’s a preference thing for these areas. I’d have the tannoys over the 6 spec Dali as it suits this taste. What makes a speaker and amp combo really good is the way it can mesh detail and warmth together and is fast and dynamic.

the Dali's have great warmth in the midrange and large warm bottom end more so than the tannoy. What Dali's have you heard ?

ive heard the Opticon ranges. IMO they are about detail in the mids but not warmth or tonally rich bass wise in the midrange, but they major on power and slam, but the basic ones aren’t as dynamic (on and off)on bass and mids as something more expensive eg atc scm40, which always stands out when you listen to budget versus speakers over 3 or 4 grand.

When you say large warm bottom end what I think you are referring too is the amount of bass which I’d agree is good, but not the tonality of the speaker in bass.

The tannoys tend to be tonally richer accross the ranges (as if you hit the bass knob up a bit more) but they often won’t go as low and dynamic but they do have big soundstage with the concentric drivers (like kef too) . They have good midrange and reasonable detail but probably not as good as the Dalis which are hiked up in the midrange high frequencies.

For the tonal richness, the soundstage and spaciousness and this interplay with ok detail and reasonable dynamics, I think they are better. They tend to be more on a even keel with what you couldn’t get rid of, as I’ve got used to speakers into a different quality bracket. Ie richness and refinement with good soundstage, rather than all out screaming detail. Not that detail isn’t important but if you took away the richness from decent speakers like an atc scm40 you’d trash the sound. But not the same with removing some detail. If this makes sense.

Bizarely I thought the 5ax i think they are called ie powered passive Dalis more balanced and better.