Warmer sound required

Gonepostal

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Hello, I'm currently using a Marantz mcr510 and Zensor 5 speakers. I've been finding the sound a little to bright/cold for my liking and would prefer something a little warmer/smoother.

What would be the best way to achieve this, swapping my speakers or my amp. my source is Spotify and Vinyl. I currently use airplay from my phone/iPad to listen to Spotify but don't mind buying a google chromecast if buying an amp without air play function. I also don't mind buying a separate phono stage if the amp doesn't have one.

Would I be better buying an amp with a USB connection but no phono stage so I could plug my phone in when playing Spotify and buying s phono stage, or visa Verss. I.e. Amp with phono stage and no USB but buying the google CC.

Budget £750/800. Apologies for rambling on.
 

Pedro

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Gonepostal said:
Hello, I'm currently using a Marantz mcr510 and Zensor 5 speakers. I've been finding the sound a little to bright/cold for my liking and would prefer something a little warmer/smoother.

What would be the best way to achieve this, swapping my speakers or my amp. my source is Spotify and Vinyl. I currently use airplay from my phone/iPad to listen to Spotify but don't mind buying a google chromecast if buying an amp without air play function. I also don't mind buying a separate phono stage if the amp doesn't have one.

Would I be better buying an amp with a USB connection but no phono stage so I could plug my phone in when playing Spotify and buying s phono stage, or visa Verss. I.e. Amp with phono stage and no USB but buying the google CC.

Budget £750/800. Apologies for rambling on.

Speakers and room acoustics are in my view the most important factors. I never heard that amp or speakers but before spending that amount of cash I'd look into room acoustics. Brightness is often a result of unwanted reflections in a room. Placing thick rugs (wool is better than synthetic materials) and curtains can have a big impact. Also bookshelves filled with books on the side walls and behind the listening positions reduce reflections.

If you sit on your sofa and have someone pick up a mirror you can check where the first reflections on the sidewalls are. Have that person hold the mirror at the tweeter height and start moving along the sidewalls from the speaker to the listening position. When you see the tweeter reflecting on the mirror there's the first reflection point. If you can use proper acoustic foam on the wall (which most of us can't), it will make a BIG difference (one or two 60cm x 60cm pads). If you can't, try placing there bookshelves or soft furnishing.

That's what I did: bookshelf on one side, acoustic foam on the other side (a door).
 

CnoEvil

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Provided the Marantz can drive them properly, you would get more warmth with speakers like

- Kef R Series

- Q Acoustics

- Sonus Faber

The other option is to look at amps like:

- Croft Integrated (possibly ex-dem)

- Arcam A29
 

ellisdj

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dont just use foam on the walls all you will do is kill your top end unevenly with the rest.

If your doing room acoustics to try and fix the issue you will need to go a little thicker than foam ideally

Similarly related issue

You probably have nowhere near enough bass for the amount of mid and treble you have - this can be caused by a few things and fixed in different ways
 
Maybe also look for something with Spotify connect built in to avoid airplay and Bluetooth altogether,maybe a bluesound power node ii would tick a few boxes bar a phono stage.

I also suspect that the dali's would benefit from a amplifier of similar standing to get those drivers working the way they ought to.
 

newlash09

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I've always thought that marantz is as warm as music can get :)

So Iam a little surprised that you are finding your combination bright.

So I would like to presume that your speaker positioning and room are playing mischief here.

The Dali's have excellent tweeter dispersion, and are designed to play firing straight down the listening room without toe-in. So, if you have angled them in for a precise center image, please try pulling them parallel and see.

Next step would be adding room treatment atleast at first reflection points, if the sound is still too bright.

But I honestly don't think it's the marantz, though I've never heard your particular model. All the best :)
 

Gonepostal

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Just out interest have any of you guys/girls thought about starting a thread where you list the characteristics of various makes of amps and speakers. I.e. Warm, bright and what pairs well with each other. Would be a useful thing to use as a point of reference.
 

Gonepostal

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Pedro said:
Gonepostal said:
Hello, I'm currently using a Marantz mcr510 and Zensor 5 speakers. I've been finding the sound a little to bright/cold for my liking and would prefer something a little warmer/smoother.

What would be the best way to achieve this, swapping my speakers or my amp. my source is Spotify and Vinyl. I currently use airplay from my phone/iPad to listen to Spotify but don't mind buying a google chromecast if buying an amp without air play function. I also don't mind buying a separate phono stage if the amp doesn't have one.

Would I be better buying an amp with a USB connection but no phono stage so I could plug my phone in when playing Spotify and buying s phono stage, or visa Verss. I.e. Amp with phono stage and no USB but buying the google CC.

Budget £750/800. Apologies for rambling on.

Speakers and room acoustics are in my view the most important factors. I never heard that amp or speakers but before spending that amount of cash I'd look into room acoustics. Brightness is often a result of unwanted reflections in a room. Placing thick rugs (wool is better than synthetic materials) and curtains can have a big impact. Also bookshelves filled with books on the side walls and behind the listening positions reduce reflections.

If you sit on your sofa and have someone pick up a mirror you can check where the first reflections on the sidewalls are. Have that person hold the mirror at the tweeter height and start moving along the sidewalls from the speaker to the listening position. When you see the tweeter reflecting on the mirror there's the first reflection point. If you can use proper acoustic foam on the wall (which most of us can't), it will make a BIG difference (one or two 60cm x 60cm pads). If you can't, try placing there bookshelves or soft furnishing.

That's what I did: bookshelf on one side, acoustic foam on the other side (a door).
all good ideas but I think my wife might need some convincing before I start putting rugs down and bookshelves up.
 

Gonepostal

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CnoEvil said:
Provided the Marantz can drive them properly, you would get more warmth with speakers like

- Kef R Series

- Q Acoustics

- Sonus Faber

The other option is to look at amps like:

- Croft Integrated (possibly ex-dem)

- Arcam A29
thanks for the suggestions. I'll look at amps before speakers. I'm wondering if the mcr has enough power for the speakers.
 

CnoEvil

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Gonepostal said:
Just out interest have any of you guys/girls thought about starting a thread where you list the characteristics of various makes of amps and speakers. I.e. Warm, bright and what pairs well with each other. Would be a useful thing to use as a point of reference.

Your wish....

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/differences-in-sound-between-hi-fi-brand

I gave my view over first 2 pages.
 

newlash09

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CnoEvil said:
Gonepostal said:
Just out interest have any of you guys/girls thought about starting a thread where you list the characteristics of various makes of amps and speakers. I.e. Warm, bright and what pairs well with each other. Would be a useful thing to use as a point of reference. 

Your wish....

https://www.whathifi.com/forum/hi-fi/differences-in-sound-between-hi-fi-brand

I gave my view over first 2 pages.

For reposting that list. No wonder my wife used to play Rhymes on the qacoustics concept 40's through the marantz, to put my daughter to sleep :)
 

CnoEvil

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Thx.

It's always a risk posting one's own personal view on what a brand sounds like, let alone a whole bunch of them - but I suppose it gives some idea.
 

abacus

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If you can’t alter the speaker positions or adapt the room, try turning the treble control down or the bass control up (Or both) as this may solve the problem for no cost. (That’s what they are there for)

If your speaker cables are really thin, you can change them for 2.5mm sq. OFC cables (They can be picked up cheaply from Maplin’s, B & Q etc.) to try out, but under NO circumstances buy expensive cable as you will be wasting your money.

Bill
 

Blacksabbath25

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I’ve read that some people think that the Dali Zensor range can sound a bit bright on the treble end I’ve owned the Zensor 3s and at the time I had them paired with Marantz PM6005 but didn’t think that myself personally .

But your saying the sound sounds bright and dull so it’s got to be down to the amplifier not being the perfect match with the Dali’s but your using a Marantz so both should sound good .

Now I know this might sound dumb but have you checked the wiring on the amplifier to the speakers to find out if you have wired things up correctly because it sounds dull if something is out of phase .

failing that if things are wired up correctly I would change the amplifier to something like one of the Yamaha amplifiers like a A-S501 would do that should give you a warm sound and a natural clean sound .

because those Dali Zensor should sound clear , detailed , good bass .
 

CnoEvil

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Blacksabbath25 said:
I’ve read that some people think that the Dali Zensor range can sound a bit bright on the treble end I’ve owned the Zensor 3s and at the time I had them paired with Marantz PM6005 but didn’t think that myself personally .

But your saying the sound sounds bright and dull so it’s got to be down to the amplifier not being the perfect match with the Dali’s but your using a Marantz so both should sound good .

Now I know this might sound dumb but have you checked the wiring on the amplifier to the speakers to find out if you have wired things up correctly because it sounds dull if something is out of phase .

failing that if things are wired up correctly I would change the amplifier to something like one of the Yamaha amplifiers like a A-S501 would do that should give you a warm sound and a natural clean sound .

because those Dali Zensor should sound clear , detailed , good bass .

It's possible that the OP's Marantz is simply not up to the job...but it's hard to know for sure.
 

rainsoothe

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Lots of good suggestions here. You should start with the free stuff, like positioning. Then, maybe curtains if they have wife approval.

I don't think the Dalis are bright at all, I used Dali to tame some Marantz brightness, which occured with Q Acoustics 3000 series, which was an ear piercing combo. All the suggested stuff in CNO's post is good, but for Q Acoustics I think he referred to the Concept range.

So, after positioning and room acoustics, cheapest upgrade will be speaker cable, but if the amp isn't good enough to drive the speakers properly, it will still be a problem.

Try to borrow or demo Tellurium Q Blue speaker cable, it might just be what the doctor ordered. Or Chord Clearway. Cheap cable, depending on specs, can sound shrill.
 
Q

QuestForThe13thNote

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Gonepostal said:
Just out interest have any of you guys/girls thought about starting a thread where you list the characteristics of various makes of amps and speakers. I.e. Warm, bright and what pairs well with each other. Would be a useful thing to use as a point of reference.

almost impossible that one as it’s so speaker and amp matching dependent, and tastes too. Also people’s views are different and also reputation comes into it such if they’ve heard a amp a while ago and didn’t like it, it tends to get pidgeon holed. Also there can be differences between a range of one make. People will start calling one brand lean, or whatever, until they hear how the best stuff in the range Sounds, then they change their minds.
 

Blacksabbath25

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CnoEvil said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
I’ve read that some people think that the Dali Zensor range can sound a bit bright on the treble end I’ve owned the Zensor 3s and at the time I had them paired with Marantz PM6005 but didn’t think that myself personally .

But your saying the sound sounds bright and dull so it’s got to be down to the amplifier not being the perfect match with the Dali’s but your using a Marantz so both should sound good .

Now I know this might sound dumb but have you checked the wiring on the amplifier to the speakers to find out if you have wired things up correctly because it sounds dull if something is out of phase .

failing that if things are wired up correctly I would change the amplifier to something like one of the Yamaha amplifiers like a A-S501 would do that should give you a warm sound and a natural clean sound .

because those Dali Zensor should sound clear , detailed , good bass .

It's possible that the OP's Marantz is simply not up to the job...but it's hard to know for sure.
and the fact that the Dali Zensor 5 are a 4ohm speaker so I think he needs a stronger amplifier to control those Zensor 5 correctly I would work with the speakers to find the perfect matching amplifier myself .
 

CnoEvil

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Blacksabbath25 said:
and the fact that the Dali Zensor 5 are a 4ohm speaker so I think he needs a stronger amplifier to control those Zensor 5 correctly I would work with the speakers to find the perfect matching amplifier myself .

...or get an amp that gets more from the Dalis - and that is for the OP to decide.
 

Blacksabbath25

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CnoEvil said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
and the fact that the Dali Zensor 5 are a 4ohm speaker so I think he needs a stronger amplifier to control those Zensor 5 correctly I would work with the speakers to find the perfect matching amplifier myself .

...or get an amp that gets more from the Dalis - and that is for the OP to decide.
that’s my thinking....
 

CnoEvil

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Blacksabbath25 said:
that’s my thinking....

Sorry, for some reason that I can't explain, I thought you were advising getting speakers that suited the amp....but you weren't....so I'm quietly going nuts. *crazy*
 

Blacksabbath25

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CnoEvil said:
Blacksabbath25 said:
that’s my thinking....

Sorry, for some reason that I can't explain, I thought you were advising getting speakers that suited the amp....but you weren't....so I'm quietly going nuts. *crazy*
No your not going nuts lol .... I believe in working with the speakers and pretty sure that’s what the issue is but it’s only my opinion it’s up to the OP to decide *smile*
 

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