Vinyl, it does sound better than cd..

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gpi

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Mar 29, 2008
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jimm:Today i picked up my first turntable, i was going to buy a project rpm5 however i plumped for projects entry level deck, the project genie, with my spare cash i bought large amounts of vinyl and ordered a better cartridge that will be fitted early next week.

The sound is very good, in fact id say im enjoying music more on a entry level record deck than i ever did with my musical fidelity x-ray or arcam diva cd192, the cd players have much better detail with good clarity, however they lack naterul drive and pace of vinyl. I enjoy putting on a record more than simply slotting in a cd, for 120 pound's im very impressed with the genie and the vinyl format as a hole, I am now a convert and fully planted in the analouge camp...

I prefer to have the vinyl version of any album because it is more of a pleasure to own but I wouldn't say vinyl sounds better than CD; it has too many flaws.
 

survivor

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Mar 31, 2008
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Today I have listened to `Wings Of Heaven` by Magnum twice. Firstly on cd and secondly on vinyl. NO-ONE is going to tell me that the cd sounds better than the lp because quite simply it doesn`t.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
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When I get my next turntable soon (roll on September) I am going to christen it with 'Mirror in the bathroom' (12" version) by The Beat followed by The Stranglers 'Always the Sun' (another 12" single version) played very loud.
 

JoelSim

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Aug 24, 2007
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How can CD or in fact any digital sound better than vinyl when it's a compressed format made from 0 and 1s. It can't as it loses the subliminal sound that makes the whole. Digital is my only choice as I have no records any more, but I would dearly love a decent turntable at some point. Think the missus would be somewhat unhappy if I were to spend a couple of grand though (and the records), and quite honestly I wouldn't want to spend any less as I would want something for a good few years and know that I wouldn't be happy with a compromise.

ÿ

Having said all that I bought my dad a Pro-Ject Debut as a thankyou for helping me with some DIY and whilst it's nice, it's no better than his Arcam Alpha 6 CD. But he does have a decent record collection so I do put it on when I visit.

ÿ

I do, however remember my childhood when he had a Pioneer P12D and Sansui amp I think some AE speakers, and I have very fond memories of Fleetwood Mac, Doobie Brothers, Simon & Garfunkle, Carly Simon etc, it always sounded very involving and enveloping.ÿ

ÿ
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Interesting article, no doubt there has been an increase in vinyl purchasing, a revolution, but to grow on low sales is easier than increasing high sales. Within my age group, incidentally that mentioned, collecting vinyl is seen as a somewhat pretentious pursuit revolved around the notion that it gives credibility to the owner, often irrespective of the actual sound quality. This is my opinion of course but I know a lot of vinyl purchasers who don't even own a record deck. There will never be one clear reason for the increase in sales, particularly in the age group mentioned (those most sensitive of image and credibility) and with the backing of recording artists this will only increase. All credit is due to those who really appreciate the media, but I stick to buying CD's because of availability, price and I would rather have the option to listen to many different albums instead of purchasing those on vinyl, irrespective of the increase of records appearing on vinyl not all are available.

In retrospect I am probability just reinforcing my direction to protect my bank balance, I might dabble again but I fear that it wouldn't stop there.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
1,245
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Brisk:In retrospect I am probability just reinforcing my direction to protect my bank balance, I might dabble again but I fear that it wouldn't stop there.

Aww go on. Give it a spin. If your bank balance can withstand a Project III USB (£275 complete with built in phono stage and USB digital output) then you can rip loads of old second-hand vinyl stuff direct to your iTunes in lossless that isn't available on CD or to download. You don't have to expensively duplicate what you already have, just use it as a convenient source for music available on old LPs & singles that isn't around on CD.

Despite my preference for vinyl, I am not going to spend a fortune duplicating everything I have on CD, especially classical which I prefer on CD and FM radio.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Don't tempt me, please! there are a few albums I couldn't live without and I think having them on vinyl would be a pleasure (I sound like such a hypocrite) £275 is still a little much supported only by a part time job at sainsburys, a student loan a crippled overdraft and the funding of a masters after my final year. I will dabble, but all in good time, I've heard that my DAC has some vinyl like qualities, it will suffice for now. Keep on enjoying. I still stick by my original point whatever that was.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
I prefer vinyl over cd any day and was trawling round the web and came across this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

When the Rush album Vapour Trails was released I always thought that its was to loud and I can't listen to the album on cd, so I bought it on vinyl and the sound is so much better.

ÿ
 

gpi

New member
Mar 29, 2008
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gpi:jimm:Today i picked up my first turntable, i was going to buy a project rpm5 however i plumped for projects entry level deck, the project genie, with my spare cash i bought large amounts of vinyl and ordered a better cartridge that will be fitted early next week.

The sound is very good, in fact id say im enjoying music more on a entry level record deck than i ever did with my musical fidelity x-ray or arcam diva cd192, the cd players have much better detail with good clarity, however they lack naterul drive and pace of vinyl. I enjoy putting on a record more than simply slotting in a cd, for 120 pound's im very impressed with the genie and the vinyl format as a hole, I am now a convert and fully planted in the analouge camp...

I prefer to have the vinyl version of any album because it is more of a pleasure to own but I wouldn't say vinyl sounds better than CD; it has too many flaws.

...and CD isn't better than vinyl. Both formats have their pros and cons. The best format for hearing a recording (IMO) is professional 30 in/s or 76.2 cm/s analogue tape. Unfortunately tape perishes too quickly so didn't last too long as a domestic medium.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
I'm getting a bit confused by this debate.

There seem to be 2 distinct schools of thought emerging.

On the one had we have the fidelity argument. Now a lot of HiFi buffs spend vast sums of money to get the best fidelity out of any recorded medium they can lay their hands on. That's fine and good luck if you have that sort of cash.

Then we have the preference argument. Some people clearly prefer the sound of vinyl and of valve amps. If you think vinyl records sound best played on a Dansette then that's your personal preference. Nothing wrong with that either.

But lets not confuse the two things. Fidelity of reproduction can be measured to a large extent. Preference is just preference. Once you start to measure you will find that for vinyl to achieve the same fidelity of reproduction as CD you need to spend at least 10 time the amount on your transcription equipment and even then you are fighting a losing battle due to the eqaulisation curve. (A track laid down on an LP is, to all intents and purposes, attenuated to make it playable.)

As a closing thought the reproduction of the sound is probably less than 20% of the whole process anyway. You need to record the sound first and formost and the one thing you can tell, whatever the medium, is that some sound engineers are better at this than others. Once you have a decent recording you need to transfer it faithfully onto the choosen medium. This process can also introduce mechanical error. In short if any of the upstream process is less than perfect, and it nearly always is, you are lost before you start.
 

gpi

New member
Mar 29, 2008
23
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0
welshboy:
I'm getting a bit confused by this debate.

There seem to be 2 distinct schools of thought emerging.

On the one had we have the fidelity argument. Now a lot of HiFi buffs spend vast sums of money to get the best fidelity out of any recorded medium they can lay their hands on. That's fine and good luck if you have that sort of cash.

Then we have the preference argument. Some people clearly prefer the sound of vinyl and of valve amps. If you think vinyl records sound best played on a Dansette then that's your personal preference. Nothing wrong with that either.

But lets not confuse the two things. Fidelity of reproduction can be measured to a large extent. Preference is just preference. Once you start to measure you will find that for vinyl to achieve the same fidelity of reproduction as CD you need to spend at least 10 time the amount on your transcription equipment and even then you are fighting a losing battle due to the eqaulisation curve. (A track laid down on an LP is, to all intents and purposes, attenuated to make it playable.)

As a closing thought the reproduction of the sound is probably less than 20% of the whole process anyway. You need to record the sound first and formost and the one thing you can tell, whatever the medium, is that some sound engineers are better at this than others. Once you have a decent recording you need to transfer it faithfully onto the choosen medium. This process can also introduce mechanical error. In short if any of the upstream process is less than perfect, and it nearly always is, you are lost before you start.

10 times? Surely not. Not in my experience anyway.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
i am 16 and love the experience of vinyl. It is a funner and more entertaining way of listening to music, and you feel involved with the music, opposed to the CD, despite its obvious superior audio quality. just added in rainbows by radiohead to my collection. Feeling involved with the music through the medium of vinyl makes a great album an even better experience.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Strange to say but vinyl sounds warmer than cd. cd just sounds electronically hyped but vinyl sounds nonchalant....if that makes any sense.
 

Tear Drop

New member
Apr 23, 2008
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cai:vinyl sounds warmer than cd

Please can someone finally explain what 'warm' sound is?! I listen predominantly to LPs, yet I have no idea what 'warm' sound is. I wonder if the term 'warm' in relation to music reproduction existed before the 1980s...
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Interestingly, (or boringly depending on your point of view), as an experiment I recorded my old copy of EMI Perlman/ Brahms violin concerto onto a CD and it retained all the warmth, ambience and depth that are so lacking on the EMI CD version.
 

chebby

Well-known member
Jun 2, 2008
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cai:Strange to say but vinyl sounds warmer than cd. cd just sounds electronically hyped but vinyl sounds nonchalant....if that makes any sense.

Actually my friend and I found quite the opposite today with at least one example. I have a CD copy of "Dub Side of the Moon" by the Easystar Allstars and my friend has the Vinyl LP version.

On my Arcam Solo-Mini + Rega R3's (with the CD copy) the 'Dub' part is really emphasised with deep bass that can get quite warm and a bit 'thick' at times and the whole rythmic drive is somewhat slow because of the particular bass emphasis of the CD and my system.

Today we listened to his LP version on his Rega P3-24 (with TT-PSU) & Denon DL103R cartridge and it really 'strode' very nicely with more emphasis on upper bass and tempo. Better imaging and the deeper bass had a 'job to do' rather than being allowed to wallow around on the floor. The whole album simply made me smile more and had better detail, resolution and pace.

It sounds fine on CD and if I had never heard the LP version I would still enjoy it, BUT the LP version stiffed it!
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Hi Jimm,

congratulations for the new record deck.

There is no doubt that a similar priced record deck is sounding much better than any CD at a similar price level in whatever field.

Make sure however that you have a good phono stage either as a separate or integrated solution in the amp. I'am using a Rega P3 plus Orbit Heed power supply and a cartridge frrom Benz = ACE L.

Phono amp = Lehmann Black Cube SE

Amplifier = Cyrus 8VS + PSXR

My wife don't want to listen to CD anymore !!! = Arcam CD 73

Best Regards from Germany

Edgar
 

gpi

New member
Mar 29, 2008
23
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Tear Drop:cai:vinyl sounds warmer than cd

Please can someone finally explain what 'warm' sound is?! I listen predominantly to LPs, yet I have no idea what 'warm' sound is. I wonder if the term 'warm' in relation to music reproduction existed before the 1980s...

Warm sound to me is listening to Bing Crosby croon on an old 60s radiogram. Warm relates to tone IMO.
 

drummerman

New member
Jan 18, 2008
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Edgar Eichmann:
Hi Jimm,

congratulations for the new record deck.

There is no doubt that a similar priced record deck is sounding much better than any CD at a similar price level in whatever field.

A sweeping generalisation not worth the paper/web space its written on. If you say that you personally prefer the sound of your tt to your cdp fair enough, otherwise certainly inaccurate in many instances and imo.
 

Gerrardasnails

Well-known member
Sep 6, 2007
295
1
18,890
chebby:cai:Strange to say but vinyl sounds warmer than cd. cd just sounds electronically hyped but vinyl sounds nonchalant....if that makes any sense.

Actually my friend and I found quite the opposite today with at least one example. I have a CD copy of "Dub Side of the Moon" by the Easystar Allstars and my friend has the Vinyl LP version.

On my Arcam Solo-Mini + Rega R3's (with the CD copy) the 'Dub' part is really emphasised with deep bass that can get quite warm and a bit 'thick' at times and the whole rythmic drive is somewhat slow because of the particular bass emphasis of the CD and my system.

Today we listened to his LP version on his Rega P3-24 (with TT-PSU) & Denon DL103R cartridge and it really 'strode' very nicely with more emphasis on upper bass and tempo. Better imaging and the deeper bass had a 'job to do' rather than being allowed to wallow around on the floor. The whole album simply made me smile more and had better detail, resolution and pace.

It sounds fine on CD and if I had never heard the LP version I would still enjoy it, BUT the LP version stiffed it!

I think that certain genres of music are better on vinyl without question. Reggae being the numero uno. Bob Marley on vinyl or cd? No Woman No Cry doesn't sound half as good on cd, you don't believe the mike distortion half way through - on vinyl it sounds like it's happening there and then. We have loads and loads of vinyl and I've been wanting to get rid for ages but it's very difficult. The trouble is, I've been told a turntable is out of the question.
 
T

the record spot

Guest
Jim Highfield:
Interestingly, (or boringly depending on your point of view), as an experiment I recorded my old copy of EMI Perlman/ Brahms violin concerto onto a CD and it retained all the warmth, ambience and depth that are so lacking on the EMI CD version.

Your CD wasn't carrying the dreaded "DDD" moniker to indicate that it was an "all digital recording" by any chance Jim?! I tend to veer away from those and actively seek out "AAD" versions instead. Hard to tell nowadays as they appear to have dropped that labelling entirely.
 
A

Anonymous

Guest
Gerrardasnails:chebby:cai:Strange to say but vinyl sounds warmer than cd. cd just sounds electronically hyped but vinyl sounds nonchalant....if that makes any sense.

Actually my friend and I found quite the opposite today with at least one example. I have a CD copy of "Dub Side of the Moon" by the Easystar Allstars and my friend has the Vinyl LP version.

On my Arcam Solo-Mini + Rega R3's (with the CD copy) the 'Dub' part is really emphasised with deep bass that can get quite warm and a bit 'thick' at times and the whole rythmic drive is somewhat slow because of the particular bass emphasis of the CD and my system.

Today we listened to his LP version on his Rega P3-24 (with TT-PSU) & Denon DL103R cartridge and it really 'strode' very nicely with more emphasis on upper bass and tempo. Better imaging and the deeper bass had a 'job to do' rather than being allowed to wallow around on the floor. The whole album simply made me smile more and had better detail, resolution and pace.

It sounds fine on CD and if I had never heard the LP version I would still enjoy it, BUT the LP version stiffed it!

I think that certain genres of music are better on vinyl without question. Reggae being the numero uno. Bob Marley on vinyl or cd? No Woman No Cry doesn't sound half as good on cd, you don't believe the mike distortion half way through - on vinyl it sounds like it's happening there and then. We have loads and loads of vinyl and I've been wanting to get rid for ages but it's very difficult. The trouble is, I've been told a turntable is out of the question.

I find that very interesting. Particularly since one of the most natural and effortlessly sounding cd-albums I own happens to be from Bob Marley! Bob Marley & The Wailers-Legend remastered deluxe edition is a gem I would like to recommend to anybody.
To give you an idea of what my experience with turntables is: I haven't heard much vinyl over the last 20 years, only on a very few occasions- my parents Thorens deck and some very old Technics deck. They all have a natural ease to them that's very pleasing to the ear.
 

jetjohnson

New member
Aug 11, 2007
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....I guess people will each have their own way of describing "warm" but I'd say it means the sound is less bright (brittle in worse case scenarios) CD's can often sound too "trebley" and can lack bass (note how many dance DJ's still prefer to play 12" singles during their sets)

I think the ambience description may be used because you can often "hear" a record being played ie you can hear the surface noise in the background. Although such noise is generally at a very low level in a decent deck and even quieter if you look after your vinyl.

I chose my Marantz CD85 SE CD player against others on dem because it sounded the closest to vinyl whilst having the advantages of CD (I bought the Marantz originally in 1989 and have since replaced it with a mint used version of the exact same model)
 
T

the record spot

Guest
jetjohnson:
I think the ambience description may be used because you can often "hear" a record being played ie you can hear the surface noise in the background. Although such noise is generally at a very low level in a decent deck and even quieter if you look after your vinyl.

A fact overlooked by most people. I lose count of the albums I have which are in their 3rd decade or whatever, and are in absolutely pristine condition, both physically and sonically.

The medium stacks up - and holds its own - more than ably and its' persistence is a testament to the market NOT being rolled over by the labcoats....long may it continue.
 

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