Ortofon m2 black sibilance cartridge or stylus? or something else

[DougK1]

I have set up 1 or 2 cartridges in my time I do have a cartridge alignment tool and a few test records but ive not changed one for quite some time though.

Steady hand and patience When you've made your choice please let us know your thoughts.

 

[Al ears]

I note that on the Ortofon site its says that silver has a life of around a thousand hours if looked after so recon mine is defo toast i will have a look at the Blue but if im being honest im leaning toward the AT's

I'd be leaning that way as well....

 

[Al ears]

Thanks for that tip I will have a look at those cartridges would you rate these above Ortofon cartridges?

The Sumiko cartridges are only installed on US Project turntables simply because they are manufactured in the States not because they are better than the Ortofons. Standard cartridges on European decks are Ortofon.

 

[My2Cents]

Thanks for that tip I will have a look at those cartridges would you rate these above Ortofon cartridges?

I have no clue, I haven't owned a turntable since 1991!
I'm just thinking that typically ,the manufacturer is going to at least install something that makes the deck sound decent?
They appear to have originally chosen the Pick It 2M silver for your deck (which was was an Ortofon OEM product).
But at least now you know that you don't need to spend £500 for a new stylus!
The replacement stylus for many cartridges often costs almost as much as the cartridge/stylus did when new.
It's kinda like the ink for a printer... they basically give you the printer for free as they know that they will make up the money from selling you ink over time.

 

[My2Cents]

The Sumiko cartridges are only installed on US Project turntables simply because they are manufactured in the States not because they are better than the Ortofons. Standard cartridges on European decks are Ortofon.

I wasn't suggesting that they were better. It's just a potential option as they are used as OEM and I don't think Pro-Ject is going to put junk on a $1,000 TT. Perhaps they are not easily available in the UK... I wouldn't know.
It seems that Sumiko (sounds Japanese to me) is now part of the McIntosh Group of companies and this is an interesting article about Sumiko's founder:

Sumiko and SOTA Founder David Fletcher R.I.P.

SOTA turntable co-founder David Fletcher recently passed away at age 81. The experimental physicist left the U.C. Berkeley Particle Lab to be his own boss. In 1972 he co-founded Sumiko. Both companies remain in business though Fletcher long ago sold his shares.

www.analogplanet.com

 

[daytona600]

Sumiko / Project share the same importer in the USA
Project design & factory fit ortofon for the rest of the world 2+ million cartridges
Sumiko are brand labelled by OEM Excel in japan , 100s of suppliers of cartridges by all make by 5 OEMs

 

[My2Cents]

Sumiko / Project share the same importer in the USA
Project design & factory fit ortofon for the rest of the world 2+ million cartridges
Sumiko are brand labelled by OEM Excel in japan , 100s of suppliers of cartridges by all make by 5 OEMs

Gotcha... thanks, even though you lost me in the second line.
"Sumiko are brand labelled by OEM Excel in japan , 100s of suppliers of cartridges by all make by 5 OEMs"

 

[nopiano]

To my surprise, Sumiko are now listed on Henley’s website fitted to some newer Pro-ject turntables priced in £.

Henley Audio | T2 Turntables |

Pro-Ject take their first step into the world of vinyl wi-fi playback.

www.henleyaudio.co.uk

 

[My2Cents]

The Sumiko cartridges are only installed on US Project turntables simply because they are manufactured in the States not because they are better than the Ortofons. Standard cartridges on European decks are Ortofon.

PS All Sumiko cartridges are manufactured in Japan, as the name would suggest.
Both the Moonstone and the Rainier seem to be well reviewed by the Hi Fi press, including WHF.

 

[My2Cents]

To my surprise, Sumiko are now listed on Henley’s website fitted to some newer Pro-ject turntables priced in £.

Henley Audio | T2 Turntables |

Pro-Ject take their first step into the world of vinyl wi-fi playback.

www.henleyaudio.co.uk

To my surprise, the McIntosh Group owns Sonus faber. The McIntosh Group are ultimately owned by a Dallas based equity firm called Highlander Partners.
Global business networks are indeed a complex web of connections!
Sumiko (a McIntosh company) distributes the 'Fine Sounds' portfolio into the USA and 'Fine Sounds UK' imports McIntosh, Sonus faber, and Bassocontinuo for the U.K. market.

 

[My2Cents]

Anyway, I'm more interested to know what the OP has decided on doing with his sibilance problem. New cartridge or just replace the Ortofon stylus?

 

[speedthing]

Anyway, I'm more interested to know what the OP has decided on doing with his sibilance problem. New cartridge or just replace the Ortofon stylus?

Right its still a work in progress if I can get over to richer sounds in Cheltenham tomorrow they have the Ortofon Blue all the AT's ive been looking at and the Sumiko cartridges in stock so Im up for blowing around £150 ish on a new stylus /cartridge

 

[My2Cents]

Right its still a work in progress if I can get over to richer sounds in Cheltenham tomorrow they have the Ortofon Blue all the AT's ive been looking at and the Sumiko cartridges in stock so Im up for blowing around £150 ish on a new stylus /cartridge

Are you going to take the tt with you so that they can 'expertly' fit whatever you decide to buy?
Do they even offer such a service?

 

[speedthing]

The other thing I thought of doing was plugging in an old Rega Mira amp I have to see if I could hear the same issue with that . One of the speaker connections get a bit crackly when its warm but it does work mostly.

 

[My2Cents]

The other thing I thought of doing was plugging in an old Rega Mira amp I have to see if I could hear the same issue with that . One of the speaker connections get a bit crackly when its warm but it does work mostly.

It's your money, but I think your stylus is due for replacement after 4 1/2 years/900 hours!

 

[speedthing]

Are you going to take the tt with you so that they can 'expertly' fit whatever you decide to buy?
Do they even offer such a service?

Probably not ive ordered a few other things to help me set it up like an Azimuth Ruler Cartridge scales etc im an Auto engineer by trade so I should be able to sort it I have set up cartridges a few times but if I get into trouble ill take it Richer sounds or Audio T and get then to sort it.

 

[speedthing]

It's your money, but I think your stylus is due for replacement after 4 1/2 years/900 hours!

Oh its still getting replaced as soon as I can get one but the amp thing was just to see if I could hear the issue with another amp. Im still of the opinion that its a mix of a knackered stylus and my new Amp pulling a lot more detail out of a record as im playing other records im finding stuff/detail that ive not heard before good stuff tho ;-)

 

[nopiano]

To my surprise, the McIntosh Group owns Sonus faber. The McIntosh Group are ultimately owned by a Dallas based equity firm called Highlander Partners.
Global business networks are indeed a complex web of connections!
Sumiko (a McIntosh company) distributes the 'Fine Sounds' portfolio into the USA and 'Fine Sounds UK' imports McIntosh, Sonus faber, and Bassocontinuo for the U.K. market.

That I did know! Sumiko were the authors of a well known speaker setup guide for Sonus fabers. Fine Sounds very kindly sent me some elastic strings for the grilles on my Sonus fabers even though they were imported before their business came into being. No charge either!

 

[Al ears]

PS All Sumiko cartridges are manufactured in Japan, as the name would suggest.
Both the Moonstone and the Rainier seem to be well reviewed by the Hi Fi press, including WHF.

Sumiko itself is American with headquarters in Minnesota...., Don't let the name fool you.
Not sure where their cartridges are actually made though

 

[My2Cents]

Sumiko itself is American with headquarters in Minnesota...., Don't let the name fool you.
Not sure where their cartridges are actually made though

Listed as MN because that's where their parent group (Fine Sounds... part of the McIntosh group) is headquartered.
They were and still are made in Japan. The history is in the article I posted.

 

[DougK1]

Sumiko appear to made in Japan by Excel Sound. Excel also make Hana carts. If you dig deep enough there is a surprising amount of root origin commonality hidden behind different brand names.

 

[My2Cents]

Sumiko appear to made in Japan by Excel Sound. Excel also make Hana carts. If you dig deep enough there is a surprising amount of root origin commonality hidden behind different brand names.

Excel Sound is a hi fi store in Orange County that imports Hana. They have nothing to do with Sumiko. There are scores of small artisan cartridge manufacturers in Japan. Small workshops with just one or two dozen skilled technicians assembling bespoke designs by hand.

 

[speedthing]

I am feeling a bit better that i dont have a £600 cartridge on my deck.

 

[nopiano]

I am feeling a bit better that i dont have a £600 cartridge on my deck.

Good job you didn’t buy a 2M Black stylus! A Blue is decent enough and surely better than your worn out Silver, but I sense a change is incoming. Good luck, and let us know what you decide.

 

[speedthing]

OK update went into Cheltenham to Richer sounds they didnt have anything in stock. So i popped down to Audio T which is a few streets down they had everything in stock. In the end i went for the Audio Technica VM95EN ill be back with more when i know more im waiting on a few things in the post so ill not know anything till later on next week. Cheers Alun