Topping E30 - worth it?

[Mark Dunlop]

Hi All
I have the chance to pick up a hardly-used Topping E30 for half the new RRP. My CD player is a Rotel CD14 Mk1 and my question is this - Is the DAC in the Topping going to be better than the one in my CD14? No point in buying it if not. The DAC in the CD14 is a Wolfson IIRC. It's an Asahi-Kasei in the Topping, apparently.

Cheers.
m.d.

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

My (un)educated guess is "no". Not worth the effort.

 

[Al ears]

I would say no as well as the E30 isn't simply a DAC it's also a preamp which you certainly do not need.

 

[Juzzie Wuzzie]

FWIW I think you can turn off the pre-amp function and have fixed out. But if we're comparing a £500 CD player with DAC with a £50 DAC with pre-amp, I'd be pushed to think the latter was a better DAC. Different, maybe?

 

[Mark Dunlop]

Confirmed what I thought, guys - nice one. I shall politely pass on the offer.
m.d.

 

[Al ears]

FWIW I think you can turn off the pre-amp function and have fixed out. But if we're comparing a £500 CD player with DAC with a £50 DAC with pre-amp, I'd be pushed to think the latter was a better DAC. Different, maybe?

Whether or not it can be switched out is irrelevant, he will be paying for it.
That was my point.
If you're in the market for a DAC then simply buy a DAC.....

 

[Noddy]

Hi All
I have the chance to pick up a hardly-used Topping E30 for half the new RRP. My CD player is a Rotel CD14 Mk1 and my question is this - Is the DAC in the Topping going to be better than the one in my CD14? No point in buying it if not. The DAC in the CD14 is a Wolfson IIRC. It's an Asahi-Kasei in the Topping, apparently.

Cheers.
m.d.

The Topping E30 measures well:

Topping E30 DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the new Topping E30 USB DAC. It was kindly sent to me by the company for testing. Unfortunately I did not get pricing information. As soon as I get it, I will post it. EDIT: just heard back. US cost is just $129.99! This is a bit of a new look...

www.audiosciencereview.com

The Rotel CD14 came out a few years ago, and at that price you’d expect to hear no improvement when using the Topping. Technically one might measure better than the other.

 

[DougK1]

All this Chi-Fi might measure well but does it actually sound better? Maybe the manufacturers are concentrating too much on measurements and not enough on how it actually sounds

Classic example, I bought a Topping A90D head amp, it measured exceptionally well but it is no better than the sockets on my CDP and amp. The only benefit was the facility to use a balanced connection which just gives more available volume. I'm not convinced.

 

[Al ears]

All this Chi-Fi might measure well but does it actually sound better? Maybe the manufacturers are concentrating too much on measurements and not enough on how it actually sounds

Classic example, I bought a Topping A90D head amp, it measured exceptionally well but it is no better than the sockets on my CDP and amp. The only benefit was the facility to use a balanced connection which just gives more available volume. I'm not convinced.

Exactly, too much emphasis on measuring well has absolutely no bearing on how it will sound, always considering an on its own is pretty pointless when it is actually used as part of a system.
i have heard speakers that apparently measure well with flat frequency curve, and whilst they might work well in a studio environment don't standca chance of doing the same in your average home environment.

 

[Noddy]

All this Chi-Fi might measure well but does it actually sound better?

Most hifi that I see is made in China. My speakers, streamer and amp are. So too are my wireless headphones and iPhone. As for Chinese design, they are quite capable of matching the West, Japan and Korea. Many august British brands such as Quad, AudioLab, Mission and Wharfedale are now Chinese owned.

 

[DougK1]

Most hifi that I see is made in China. My speakers, streamer and amp are. So too are my wireless headphones and iPhone. As for Chinese design, they are quite capable of matching the West, Japan and Korea. Many august British brands such as Quad, AudioLab, Mission and Wharfedale are now Chinese owned.

When I say Chi-Fi I'm referring to the so-called disrupters, the home-grown brands designed and manufactured in China, e.g., Topping, Fosi, etc.

The only piece I have in my system is the head amp, the rest is made in: Japan, UK, and EU. Personally, I don't think the Chinese have quite matched the legacy brands, and as for longevity the jury is still out... I'm definitely not pleased with my head amp's power led which has dimmed to a point where I can't see if it's on stand-by or off!

 

[Noddy]

When I say Chi-Fi I'm referring to the so-called disrupters, the home-grown brands designed and manufactured in China, e.g., Topping, Fosi, etc.

I did refer to Chinese design, as well as pointing out that most are China manufactured anyway.

The only piece I have in my system is the head amp, the rest is made in: Japan, UK, and EU. Personally, I don't think the Chinese have quite matched the legacy brands, and as for longevity the jury is still out...

My £400 Chord Mojo failed after 2 years. Supposedly made in England, but that can mean just assembled in England. My £1,000 Arcam Solo Movie, failed after about two years, beyond economic repair. My £300 Audeze Sine headphones fell to pieces after a few years: earpads split, digital cable failed, left earpiece failed. My Bose QC25 is well made but the earpads are cheap and nasty and fell to pieces. My £1300 Japanese microscope is good but has some serious faults. Chinese ones I’ve used are cheaper and better. I had two Apple watches and one Withings Scanwatch replaced under warranty when they fell apart because they are glued together. The last warranty replacement of each was sold on eBay unused. So much for non Chinese designed quality. My older stuff never failed, including Teac, Arcam and Sennheiser. My view is that stuff is no longer designed to last much beyond the warranty period. Wireless headphones with non replaceable batteries. Watches with crystals glued on. Items with plastic that goes sticky after a few years.

And I look after my stuff. I’ve sold numerous cameras and lenses that look almost like new after many years use. The watches that fell apart were almost mint.

Of course you might be right, one person’s experience proves nothing, but I will happily buy well known Chinese brands such as Wiim.

I'm definitely not pleased with my head amp's power led which has dimmed to a point where I can't see if it's on stand-by or off!

 

[Jasonovich]

All this Chi-Fi might measure well but does it actually sound better? Maybe the manufacturers are concentrating too much on measurements and not enough on how it actually sounds

Classic example, I bought a Topping A90D head amp, it measured exceptionally well but it is no better than the sockets on my CDP and amp. The only benefit was the facility to use a balanced connection which just gives more available volume. I'm not convinced.

I did actually own the Topping E30, it's a decent sounding DAC for the price. It is somewhat eclipsed by the cheaper SMSL SU1.
I also had the E50 which was much fuller sounding.

 

[Jasonovich]

Of course you might be right, one person’s experience proves nothing, but I will happily buy well known Chinese brands such as Wiim.

I don't mean to steal your thunder, ha ha ha!
WiiM isn't Chinese, it is Uncle Sam through and through, maybe it's made in China.

WiiM is a brand born out of Linkplay Technology, which was founded back in 2014 “by a core team of high calibre technology entrepreneurs” from the likes of Google, Broadcom and Harman.

 

[Noddy]

I don't mean to steal your thunder, ha ha ha!
WiiM isn't Chinese, it is Uncle Sam through and through, maybe it's made in China.

The headquarters is in California. It’s not uncle Sam through and through.

The chief technology officer, VP of hardware engineering and the chief business officer all grew up and studied in China. I couldn’t find details for others, but all the senior team outside of regional sales have chinese names. Some details here:

LinkPlay Technology Inc. - Leadership Team | The Org

The Leadership Team at LinkPlay Technology Inc.

theorg.com

And here:

Linkplay Technology - Turnkey Voice and Smart Solution Provider

linkplay.co

I wouldn’t be surprised if engineering teams were full of Chinese and Indians, assuming they are based in the US. I couldn’t find the location of their design and development sites.

WiiM is a brand born out of Linkplay Technology, which was founded back in 2014 “by a core team of high calibre technology entrepreneurs” from the likes of Google, Broadcom and Harman.

The truth is that there is a huge flow of talent around the world. (Deleted by moderation.)

And amplifiers and the like aren’t exactly cutting edge technology, they are solved problems. Modern amps are moving towards on chip solutions, and these run cool and are load invariant. DACs these days are implemented on one chip plus a few other support components.

And these days construction is largely automated, so quality comes down to the quality control and the design e.g. allowing for heat dissipation. Design quality can be assessed by tear downs e.g. taking off the casing.

I think the only way to have a high degree of certainty that a product is high quality is to buy the likes of McIntosh and pay the entry fee, although I do agree with DougK1 that Japan made is usually very reliable and better than Chinese made, I tend to trust EU made, such as Sennheiser, I don’t generally trust UK made as I know first hand that made in Britain can mean assembled in Britain from parts made in China (circuit boards, camera, casing, glass, cables) with zero UK made parts. I suppose if you buy a PMC amp for example you expect very high quality.

 

[GSV Ethics Gradient]

The truth is that there is a huge flow of talent around the world. (Deleted by moderation.)

What was deleted was sweeping and lacking evidence, so I'm afraid it had to be deleted.

 

[Noddy]

What was deleted was sweeping and lacking evidence, so I'm afraid it had to be deleted.

Then in that case I will post evidence:

Industrial espionage: How China sneaks out America's technology secrets

The true extent of commercial spying is unknown but experts say it is "pervasive".

www.bbc.co.uk

https://foreignaffairs.house.gov/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Egregious-Cases-of-Chinese-Theft-of-American-Intellectual-Property.pdf

https://www.reuters.com/world/five-eyes-intelligence-chiefs-warn-chinas-theft-intellectual-property-2023-10-18/

I won’t discuss this further here except to say that Chinese technology is now at a high level and they will soon be innovating in hifi, if they are not already doing so. We once looked down on Japan, in terms of its products. Now many Japanese brands are synonyms for quality.