Too much speaker

[Strictly Stereo]

Are tiny speakers with inadequate SPL and no bass really the solution to reproducing music in small rooms? I hope not because in a couple weeks I am moving to a small house and will be listening to music in a small L-shaped room. It will almost certainly be a challenging project to get decent sound but I hope an interesting one. I intend to DIY to get it. There is no room for large main speakers but scattering 4-8 small subs on bookshelves, cabinets and possibly the floor is an option. Targetted unobtrusive room treatment is a possibility such as absorbers in the gap between the top of a bookshelf and the ceiling. Intrusive room treatment is not.

Tiny speakers can often provide sufficient SPL and bass to reproduce music in small rooms very effectively. Unobtrusive room treatment is unlikely to have much impact on the major room modes, but some relatively thin panels at the the first reflection points will markedly improve imaging and detail resolution. You can deal with the bottom end using bass traps, but you need quite a lot of bass trapping to have a significant impact on low frequencies. More living room friendly options are to use a little EQ or multiple subwoofers (or both).

 

[Native_bon]

I found this thread very interesting, but at the same time there is always exception to the rule regarding floor standing speakers. It would also help if manufacturers state or give some form of guidance what size room their speakers would likely to perform best.
Something which I think IPL acoustics does very well.

Size of woofer and volume of even standmounted speakers would come into play here as well. Even small sized speakers and woofers could give bass problems if not placed properly in relation to listening position and room size.

Like mentioned earlier room interaction with speakers is very important as suppose buying just on people's recommendation. There is also the case of preference as to how we like to hear bass. In theory small speakers and a sub seems ideal and may be the solution in some rooms.

 

[hg]

Tiny speakers can often provide sufficient SPL and bass to reproduce music in small rooms very effectively.

Not in my experience or following the laws of physics. Tiny speakers plus room boom can sometimes be considered loud enough because they sound sufficiently distressed not to want to play louder. If you remove the room boom (and the modulation of the midrange) then the main speakers will sound clean so long as they have enough cone area + linear displacement to reproduce low frequency transients. Small speakers cannot do this at standard listening levels but may at quieter levels.

Unobtrusive room treatment is unlikely to have much impact on the major room modes,

Agreed. You need distributed subwoofers or a form of large resonant passive absorbers that has been specifically designed and constructed for the modes of the particular room.

but some relatively thin panels at the the first reflection points will markedly improve imaging and detail resolution.

Maybe. What this does is remove the high frequency content in the first reflection while leaving the low frequency untouched. Deforming the first reflection like this will be detrimental to the perceived sound. However, whether the overall perceived sound is improved or degraded will depend on what else is going on in the room. Reflections tend to bring both a positive and a negative contribution to the sound and to make matter worse the contribution can be significantly different when, for example, listening to orchestral music or studio created pop/rock.

You can deal with the bottom end using bass traps, but you need quite a lot of bass trapping to have a significant impact on low frequencies.

I would suggest it is more than quite a lot and if you could do it then the room would very likely be too dead at higher frequencies.

More living room friendly options are to use a little EQ or multiple subwoofers (or both).

Agreed although multiple subwoofers without DSP/EQ will generally be significantly less effective at controlling the room modes.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I am not sure it would be a good idea for a dealer to do room treatment in there demo room because I feel you would have to look at the bigger picture here .

Not everyone spends the same amount of money on what they are buying some people are not so serious as the full blown audio file hifi person they are just looking for something cheap and sounds good for there hard earned money .

the other factor is if a dealer does room treatment in there demo room the person buying the speakers will think yes they sound really good unwary of room treatment and buy those speakers and set them up at home and then they will sound crap ... but they didn’t sound like that when I had a demonstration in the hifi shop ? Then the dealer gets the speakers back because the customer wasn’t happy with the speakers

Then how meany of us can do room treatment ? I can’t and most wife’s wouldn’t allow it and some people haven’t got the room for it or the money to do it . Just a thought

 

[CnoEvil]

I am not sure it would be a good idea for a dealer to do room treatment in there demo room because I feel you would have to look at the bigger picture here .

Not everyone spends the same amount of money on what they are buying some people are not so serious as the full blown audio file hifi person they are just looking for something cheap and sounds good for there hard earned money .

the other factor is if a dealer does room treatment in there demo room the person buying the speakers will think yes they sound really good unwary of room treatment and buy those speakers and set them up at home and then they will sound crap ... but they didn’t sound like that when I had a demonstration in the hifi shop ? Then the dealer gets the speakers back because the customer wasn’t happy with the speakers

Then how meany of us can do room treatment ? I can’t and most wife’s wouldn’t allow it and some people haven’t got the room for it or the money to do it . Just a thought

On a slightly tangential note (but goes to getting a dem closer to what you will hear at home)...because I think cables make a difference, I want to know what is being used for any dem. The main dealer I use, does his dems with nothing fancy...and doesn't push cables, but will supply/dem them if asked.

 

[Blacksabbath25]

I am not sure it would be a good idea for a dealer to do room treatment in there demo room because I feel you would have to look at the bigger picture here .

Not everyone spends the same amount of money on what they are buying some people are not so serious as the full blown audio file hifi person they are just looking for something cheap and sounds good for there hard earned money .

the other factor is if a dealer does room treatment in there demo room the person buying the speakers will think yes they sound really good unwary of room treatment and buy those speakers and set them up at home and then they will sound crap ... but they didn’t sound like that when I had a demonstration in the hifi shop ? Then the dealer gets the speakers back because the customer wasn’t happy with the speakers

Then how meany of us can do room treatment ? I can’t and most wife’s wouldn’t allow it and some people haven’t got the room for it or the money to do it . Just a thought

On a slightly tangential note (but goes to getting a dem closer to what you will hear at home)...because I think cables make a difference, I want to know what is being used for any dem. The main dealer I use, does his dems with nothing fancy...and doesn't push cables, but will supply/dem them if asked.

that’s how I would want it to a honest sound

 

[ellisdj]

if you hear speakers in a demo room of a dealer they will sound different to at home anyway.

If the dealer removes their room from the listening equation with room treatments you are hearing more of the truth so you can better make a judgement on what you like. Home demo is then the next stage.

It's down to every individual to make great sound in their own listening rooms and unfortunately the room is a huge part of that experience there is no avoiding that.

A dealership should be a place you go to be inspired, to walk away from buzzing with enthusiasm and excitement to get the sound to the next level.
That comes from hearing it.

 

[JMac]

Moving back to the original question I think there a couple of factors that influence why people would go for a floorstanding speaker the alternatives.

Firstly, there is the perception of value. Spend £4.5k on a stand mounter and you dont have much to look at for your money. Spend £4.5k on a pair of floorstanders and you should have a huge hunk of speaker to show your mates. You'd like to think that anyone spending over £500 on a pair of speakers is more savvy than that but its not always the case.

Secondly, the idium of 'bigger is better'. Many people start of with relatively small speakers but then get in to that mindset of constantly striving to improve the sound. To get a bigger, wider soundstage or more bass or whatever, it doesnt really matter and this inevitably leads to floor standers because bigger is better, right?

 

[Blacksabbath25]

if you hear speakers in a demo room of a dealer they will sound different to at home anyway.

If the dealer removes their room from the listening equation with room treatments you are hearing more of the truth so you can better make a judgement on what you like. Home demo is then the next stage.

It's down to every individual to make great sound in their own listening rooms and unfortunately the room is a huge part of that experience there is no avoiding that.

A dealership should be a place you go to be inspired, to walk away from buzzing with enthusiasm and excitement to get the sound to the next level. That comes from hearing it.

I totally get what your saying for people like you and me but I was thinking about most of the population of people who do not no nothing about hifi the sort of people who buy something from curry’s and fancy something a little better but do not want to spend a stack of money and do not look at upgrading anything or want to expand in the future as we are a small minority and getting smaller by the minute .

Obviously us on here think different to the rest of the population as it’s our hobby *smile*

 

[ellisdj]

we can look at it all ways - what gets someone in any hobby there must be a hook somewhere along the line.

I think it would be great for everyone to have access to a reference sound quality point to work towards around etc. I think that would be very useful and really a dealership is the place to have that as they have all the best toys.

It works really well for home cinema companies that have dedicated facilities to show off what's possible