Time to stop dwelling - Time to start deciding

[admin_exported]

Without coming over all pretentious, I need some new speakers. Yes, we've just discussed the advantages (and inherent disadvantages) to studio monitors and to AVI's "anti-naim" offerings, but I feel that conventional speakers are still the way for me. For those of you who havn't heard my long rantings, I have a fairly small room (quite well damped however) of 14ft X 8ft (with the speakers along the long wall 2m apart, my listening position 2.5m away) and so standmounts seem the best choice....however, I like my speakers to have musicle to them. I appreciate accuracy and natural tonality obviously very highly, however I don't wish for authority to be comprimised due to this. I also like a very accurate, 3d soundstage. My budget tops out at £1000ish pounds (however a couple of pennies over isn't a problem). My equipment is an Arcam FMJ A32 (but switching between that an a JVC A-X5), an Arcam CD73T and Project Debut III...my current speakers are Wharfedale EVO2 30s. Second-hand is fine...infact, probably better... Thanks for your time, J Hughes.

 

[drummerman]

As always, Rega up to 1k.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="drummerman"]
As always, Rega up to 1k.
[/quote]
There's a lot to try and I wouldn't recommend the Rega stand mounts based on your preferences. The PMC GB1i floorstander is probably the only fs I'd recommend in that space due to it being transmission line, but it's a little over budget. In terms of stand mounters, the usual names spring to mind, ATC, Neat, PMC, Proac, etc, but it comes down to taste and what's available to audition.

This isn't a great help but I guess my point is that you should try to just go into auditions without expectations and see what wins. There's no substitute for a clear mind!

 

[drummerman]

[quote user="igglebert"]There's a lot to try and I wouldn't recommend the Rega stand mounts based on your preferences[/quote]

I was thinking about the floorstanders. They are relatively easy to position and have twin bass drivers to move more air than a single small cone. Front ported too but you're of course right, there are more good speakers to consider.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok - cheers!

I don't know where I can get Regas from...but I'll have a look!

My local two dealers stock Spendor, PMC, Mission, KEF, B&W, AE, Epos, Monitor Audio, Ruark and Yamaha (oh, and If ProAc will let me get some speakers from their factory (just 5 miles from my house) then that's good).

So then, a choice out of them!

Spendor S series, PMC GB1i (yes I'll go that high - guy at Bristol said he could get some before discount at £1k), B&W 683s, Monitor Audio GS20s, ProAc Studio 100 etc etc... does anybody know any really good second hand models I could get? Sort of £3000 speakers 10 years ago or something?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Hughes123"]Ok - cheers!

I don't know where I can get Regas from...but I'll have a look!

My local two dealers stock Spendor, PMC, Mission, KEF, B&W, AE, Epos, Monitor Audio, Ruark and Yamaha (oh, and If ProAc will let me get some speakers from their factory (just 5 miles from my house) then that's good).

So then, a choice out of them!

Spendor S series, PMC GB1i (yes I'll go that high - guy at Bristol said he could get some before discount at £1k), B&W 683s, Monitor Audio GS20s, ProAc Studio 100 etc etc... does anybody know any really good second hand models I could get? Sort of £3000 speakers 10 years ago or something?
[/quote]
Well, if the winds of fate are on your side you might unearth a pair of used Proac Response D28s! If you do, you may never need to change speakers ever again...IMO of course...

 

[gpi]

A bit off the beaten track these hi-end floorstanders which were top of their line and £2,800 in the black finish or £3,375 in walnut, cherry or maple. Some more info on Google if you're interested.

http://www.badaweb.co.uk/showsearch.php?site=bada&vehicleid=2659

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="fr0g"]Without wanting to sound rude...Calm down, wait till the hormones have settled and save some money until you move out and get a proper listening area.

[/quote]He's got to wait till he can buy a house or a very large flat in that case... in fifteen years... Just buy your speakers now and be happy to have them.

And can I say I'm shocked and appauled that no one mentioned Totem. I mean really now! Come on! Standmounts from totem are the business. Put the Mani2 on that list.

And I should add the Neat motive 3 is just a little ray of sunshine. Although I'm not too clear on it's pricepoint.

 

[drummerman]

[quote user="fr0g"]Without wanting to sound rude...Calm down, wait till the hormones have settled and save some money until you move out and get a proper listening area.[/quote]

?

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="fr0g"][quote user="drummerman"]
[quote user="fr0g"]Without wanting to sound rude...Calm down, wait till the hormones have settled and save some money until you move out and get a proper listening area.[/quote]

?
[/quote]

He's 15. He has just spent alot of money on an expensive amp that he doesn't prefer over an ancient JVC. And now he's on about spending a grand on speakers... All in a bedroom with insufficient listening area.

I just think a bt of 'take it easy' would be useful.

Sorry Hughes... its just what I think - no offence.

[/quote]
fr0g's comment has made me think of one thing you might want to consider. If you ever plan to go to uni then space will be at a premium so some easy to place stand mounters will save the day. Unless of course you negociate the biggest bedroom or even to put everything in the shared lounge. The latter is a very bad idea...

As much as I can see where fr0g is coming from, with every year of age comes more and more demands on your cash. Buy them now and enjoy before the unending greed of rental damage deposits, car insurance, tuition fees and downtown bars sucks your resources. Take all of this with a pinch of salt of course as I don't know anything about you!!!

Now back to the Proac D28's, and Totem, yes, superb...oh the hours of enjoyment you're going to have...

 

[Thaiman]

I happen to agree with Frog and Iggle here! I love buying kits as much as my wife buying shoes and would normally like to advice people to buy buy buy!

Hugh my friend, I don't believe you are fully happy with your Arcam amp and to buy a pair of speaker to match the amp that you may change is could be costly mate.

Dwelling a bit longer.....

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Thaiman"]

Dwelling a bit longer.....
[/quote]

Yes, but...oh, I guess you're right...it's just I know I can get so much more out my amp(s) than the Wharfys can...there's just no detail and no authority...I guess it is best to stay put for a while maybe...get some more CDs while they're at knock-down prices before downloads takes over the music industry. It's just I like spending money, and I like something new every so often (that sounded so pompus) but I work hard for my money at it seems such a shame (at my age) to let it go in the savings account. hmm....

 

[Thaiman]

[quote user="Hughes123"]Yes, but...oh, I guess you're right...it's just I know I can get so much more out my amp(s) than the Wharfys can...there's just no detail and no authority...[/quote]

If JVC sound better than Arcam to your ears why blame speakers?

I love to hear your JVC one day, seem like a giant killer....

If you feel that you need a change in your system, plan for the whole thing in advance otherwise you might end up like me....forever changing.

 

[the record spot]

£1000 eh? Lucky lad and well done for putting the work and hours in to get that sum - no mean feat. No doubt you deserve a wee treat after all that!

But.....(yes, you just knew one was coming!)

That's a hell of a lot to put down on a pair of speakers whose sources will be a Project Debut and an Arcam 73T, no matter what your amp is. If you have to spend money on speakers, scale right back down; forget a beefy pair of floorstanders and either get some B&W 603 S2's which will be more than enough in your room or forsake a little of the bottom end and get a pair of secondhand AVI Neutron IV's which are tiny, but have the best midrange and detail handling of anything up to £500 and by far and away a stunning secondhand buy.

My suggestion - set a realistic budget (£300) and treat yourself, AVI's B&W's or Usher's.

Next put your money away and let it grow a bit; a Cash ISA will do you nicely and check the interest rates payable. Over a year with a 5 or 6% return, you'll do well enough if you reinvest over a few years consecutively. No, it's not fun, but new bits of hifi aren't cheap either and again, you don't need £1000 speakers with that gear.

As a side suggestion, you could do worse than send a cheque or donate a suitable amount online to a worthy cause and then you cover all bases; you get something, you save a bit in the background and someone or something that needs a helping hand wins too.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Thaiman"]
[quote user="Hughes123"]Yes, but...oh, I guess you're right...it's just I know I can get so much more out my amp(s) than the Wharfys can...there's just no detail and no authority...[/quote]

If JVC sound better than Arcam to your ears why blame speakers?

I love to hear your JVC one day, seem like a giant killer....

If you feel that you need a change in your system, plan for the whole thing in advance otherwise you might end up like me....forever changing.

[/quote]

Yeah I guess I do need to plan...but I know that there is alot of detail left in both amps, because I have heard them on a friend's PMC FB1+ (think that's what the model was) and it was like night from day!

And the reason I believe the JVC is a giant killer, is that it redifines the word muscle without compromising tonality or imaging. And when I opened it up, it was little wonder...the quality of the components was amazing - so immaculatly built for a 1979-1981 beast! It's only 70watts into 8ohms, but it sounds like sooo much more - but then it draws 700watts at the plug! I think you, Thaiman, of all people would like it best because I have yet to hear an amp so good at rock music (the joys of Super-class A)...apart from those Bryston monsters driving those PMC EB1s at the Bristol Show 2008...and wow, did they do the Eagles - Hotel California good!!!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="the record spot"]£1000 eh? Lucky lad and well done for putting the work and hours in to get that sum - no mean feat. No doubt you deserve a wee treat after all that!

But.....(yes, you just knew one was coming!)

That's a hell of a lot to put down on a pair of speakers whose sources will be a Project Debut and an Arcam 73T, no matter what your amp is. If you have to spend money on speakers, scale right back down; forget a beefy pair of floorstanders and either get some B&W 603 S2's which will be more than enough in your room or forsake a little of the bottom end and get a pair of secondhand AVI Neutron IV's which are tiny, but have the best midrange and detail handling of anything up to £500 and by far and away a stunning secondhand buy.

My suggestion - set a realistic budget (£300) and treat yourself, AVI's B&W's or Usher's.

Next put your money away and let it grow a bit; a Cash ISA will do you nicely and check the interest rates payable. Over a year with a 5 or 6% return, you'll do well enough if you reinvest over a few years consecutively. No, it's not fun, but new bits of hifi aren't cheap either and again, you don't need £1000 speakers with that gear.

As a side suggestion, you could do worse than send a cheque or donate a suitable amount online to a worthy cause and then you cover all bases; you get something, you save a bit in the background and someone or something that needs a helping hand wins too.
[/quote]
I have to disagree with the budget suggestion here. I have a £500 amp and £650 CDP and a £1.1k pair of speakers has made a world of difference compared to £350 MAs. The best change I've ever made.

I think our fellow hifi friend can decide whether the finances are a wise spend or not, that's not the question he's asking.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="the record spot"]

That's a hell of a lot to put down on a pair of speakers whose sources will be a Project Debut and an Arcam 73T, no matter what your amp is. If you have to spend money on speakers, scale right back down; forget a beefy pair of floorstanders and either get some B&W 603 S2's which will be more than enough in your room or forsake a little of the bottom end and get a pair of secondhand AVI Neutron IV's which are tiny, but have the best midrange and detail handling of anything up to £500 and by far and away a stunning secondhand buy.

[/quote]

Yes, but my current speakers are £300 (and have an RRP of £650) and I feel that as soon as I upgrade source, I would need to upgrade speakers again and that would be wasting money...I might aswell spend the money and forget about upgrading the speakers for a while then save up for a new CD player (Arcam CD36 most likely) and then enjoy a system of value £3k!

[quote user="the record spot"] As a side suggestion, you could do worse than send a cheque or donate a suitable amount online to a worthy cause and then you cover all bases; you get something, you save a bit in the background and someone or something that needs a helping hand wins too. [/quote]

Work for the British Heart Foundation as a volunteer already on a satuarday morning...plenty of laughs and I get a nice cup of tea and some buscuits...and, yes there are hobnobs for a certain someone if he's interested... : )

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="igglebert"] I have a £500 amp and £650 CDP and a £1.1k pair of speakers has made a world of difference compared to £350 MAs. The best change I've ever made.

[/quote]

Actually your the person I need to ask a question, Igglebert! How do you like your SA1s? I like the thought of them, but I feel that they would be a little on the "dorothy" side and that they wouldn't really deal with Radiohead and Metallica at -10db on the amp...

 

[the record spot]

[quote user="Hughes123"]

Yes, but my current speakers are £300 (and have an RRP of £650) and I feel that as soon as I upgrade source, I would need to upgrade speakers again and that would be wasting money...I might aswell spend the money and forget about upgrading the speakers for a while then save up for a new CD player (Arcam CD36 most likely) and then enjoy a system of value £3k!
[/quote]

Fair do's - forget the Usher's and the B&W's then - you were asking about speakers which have good bass, so the B&W's are an obvious mention (based on a range of reviews).

Equally, you're in a small room, so the AVI's (I think they retailed for around £550 or so in the IV guise) are worthy of consideration given they will perform extremely well albeit they are not the last word in a thumping bass - depends what you value most I guess! Also, they would withstand many an upgrade. They won't be outshone by better source gear in a hurry.

The analogy of spending more to achieve more doesn't always pan out, so don't write off what is available just by a decent review and a price tag to match your upper spend.

Nice one re: the BHF though!

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Hughes123"][quote user="igglebert"] I have a £500 amp and £650 CDP and a £1.1k pair of speakers has made a world of difference compared to £350 MAs. The best change I've ever made.

[/quote]

Actually your the person I need to ask a question, Igglebert! How do you like your SA1s? I like the thought of them, but I feel that they would be a little on the "dorothy" side and that they wouldn't really deal with Radiohead and Metallica at -10db on the amp...
[/quote]
Evening. I can understand your concerns about Spendor speakers in general. I bought these little beasties after going in for an audition of the Proac Tablette Ref 8 Sigs (gasp). I found the SA1s to be a more natural sound, smoother, better bass in open space (sealed unit) and generally a lot more to my taste. I haven't heard any other Spendor speakers so I have no idea if these remain faithful to the house sound or not. These are musical, punchy, three dimensional, focused and a sound-stage that is seemingly unrelated to the boxes. As far as I'm concerned these are keepers!

I have no idea whether they'd suit the Arcam though. As I said before, you just need to suck it and see. I never expected to walk away with Spendors but the sound was _exactly_ what I was after.

I'd highly recommend trying the Spendors but def try as many as you can, even if it takes 3 months. It's taken me years to work out what sound I like and how to get it in the room I listen in.

Keep us posted on your thoughts and experiences. Enjoy!

 

[the record spot]

[quote user="igglebert"]
I have to disagree with the budget suggestion here. I have a £500 amp and £650 CDP and a £1.1k pair of speakers has made a world of difference compared to £350 MAs. The best change I've ever made.

[/quote]

Totally subjective, though I'm glad you enjoy it. then again, you advocate spending more on the speakers anyway so it's a POV that I don't agree with in the main. I think Ivor Tiefenbrun had the right idea in the early 1970s. He wasn't wrong either...

[quote user="igglebert"]
I think our fellow hifi friend can decide whether the finances are a wise spend or not, that's not the question he's asking.[/quote]

And I think I can read the initial post well enough thanks! The point was merely to suggest that £1000 speakers for a £180 source is maybe a touch too much, if you'll pardon the AC/DC. Did you catch the rest of the gear? A P-Debut III at one end and £1k speakers at the other? Sorry, it's not that good a deck.

Sorry, but the balance is way out; I would wager good money that Hughes will achieve as good sonic results by considering his options at several price points rather than just assuming he can spend a grand and it's problem solved. The answer isn't in throwing the amount spent on the speakers; it's finding the best fit for the size of his room with the equipment he has and the can be done with a far smaller sum.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="the record spot"][quote user="igglebert"]
I have to disagree with the budget suggestion here. I have a £500 amp and £650 CDP and a £1.1k pair of speakers has made a world of difference compared to £350 MAs. The best change I've ever made.

[/quote]

Totally subjective, though I'm glad you enjoy it. then again, you advocate spending more on the speakers anyway so it's a POV that I don't agree with in the main. I think Ivor Tiefenbrun had the right idea in the early 1970s. He wasn't wrong either...

[quote user="igglebert"]
I think our fellow hifi friend can decide whether the finances are a wise spend or not, that's not the question he's asking.[/quote]

And I think I can read the initial post well enough thanks! The point was merely to suggest that £1000 speakers for a £180 source is maybe a touch too much, if you'll pardon the AC/DC. Did you catch the rest of the gear? A P-Debut III at one end and £1k speakers at the other? Sorry, it's not that good a deck.

Sorry, but the balance is way out; I would wager good money that Hughes will achieve as good sonic results by considering his options at several price points rather than just assuming he can spend a grand and it's problem solved. The answer isn't in throwing the amount spent on the speakers; it's finding the best fit for the size of his room with the equipment he has and the can be done with a far smaller sum.
[/quote]
All of this game is down to personal taste. He has a CDP that is on a par with mine. He has an amp that is a lot better. Why wouldn't he gain from £1k speakers the same way as I have? I fail to see the point you push so hard? I'm speaking from experience, nothing else. My upgrade has shocked me in how much detail I was missing with my old MA RS1 speakers. I'm not looking for an argument, I'm just stating my experience.

I'm sure you can read his post. It's that assumption that's made me wonder why you went off the hifi topic and on to charity and banking tips...

 

[the record spot]

Based on Hughes replies that he was keen to spend his money, I offered a few alternatives: treat, save and good deed. Guess you can read as well as I can...and I've gathered you can't see the point so I won't elaborate.

 

[Anonymous]

[quote user="Hughes123"]Ok - cheers!

I don't know where I can get Regas from...but I'll have a look!

My local two dealers stock Spendor, PMC, Mission, KEF, B&W, AE, Epos, Monitor Audio, Ruark and Yamaha (oh, and If ProAc will let me get some speakers from their factory (just 5 miles from my house) then that's good).

So then, a choice out of them!

Spendor S series, PMC GB1i (yes I'll go that high - guy at Bristol said he could get some before discount at £1k), B&W 683s, Monitor Audio GS20s, ProAc Studio 100 etc etc... does anybody know any really good second hand models I could get? Sort of £3000 speakers 10 years ago or something?[/quote]

check ebay, I saw a pair of MA GS 60's go for 1300 quid the other day.

 

[Anonymous]

For God's sake man, get rid of the Arcam equipment, buy yourself some 'budget' marantz, NAD, rotel or something similiar, anything else, combine with suitable 'budget' speakers - the smaller the better for your room - and enjoy.

The fact that you spent that much on that amp instead something like Naim is CRIMINAL. You can't add what isn't there. You're electronics sound boring. I know, I have an Arcam Alpha cdp/amp (will be trading them in soon enough) and have heard yours in store. Nothing ...NOTHING you can do will add any excitement.

Sell them or trade them in, and start again. I implore you.