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"who else has go backwards and why" - I've always been vinyl first, so am not "going back", the sound is (to me) fuller, richer, more there/present in the room, vocals & symbols much finer, I could go on, but I guess much depends on what you listen to, '80s 12" have the best sound for me 🙂 & I guess there's not much point listening to digital recordings mastered to vinyl. There's a lot of vinyl - new & secondhand - at reasonable prices on discogs these days.
Angle Poise-Lamp
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Vincent Kars
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If you love a format dead for about 3 decades, 1 decade is nothing...
The thread appeared in my notifications list (top right, must be a bug?), I only realised the age of the thread after posting. I’ll be more attentive in future 🙂
Jasonovich
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We've all done it! 😉
Some of the contents of these old threads are really poignant and I would argue, worth revitalising, because it allows us to retrospectively, trace back the outcomes.
Why plagiarise an old thread, when there's a whole body of information that potentially can help you make an informed decision.
Al ears
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I must say it was interesting reading my old comments again, must by the oldest thread I have seen revisited yet.....
Jasonovich
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Jasonovich
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I keep saying you (vinyl 🙂) should go the way of the dinosaurs, SACD/DSD is much better!
It seems, Zombie vinyl will never die!
Al ears
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Jasonovich
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I can't possibly agree
I can't possibly agree, where would this forum be without your dry humour and biting witticism!
🙂
Time is relative and perish the thought!
I can't possibly agree, where would this forum be without your dry humour and biting witticism!
🙂
Angle Poise-Lamp
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No
Nowt wrong with rereading old threads but, seems daft to answer a question, in a thread thats been dead for years.
keithiepoo
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Agreed. I mean, I own CDs, LPs, .MP3s, AACs, etc. And, the choice depends on different factors (do I only like one song on the entire album, is there a CD version available or not, etc...)
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Shrek
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Forget vinyl, reel-to-reel tapes are the last word in sound quality – and they’re making a comeback
We’ve had the vinyl revival, now comes the reel renaissance.
Thought i add this to the mix
Al ears
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I have a degree in wit and repartee you know.
It can really p*** some people off..... 🙂
Al ears
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Oh no! When I win the lottery.Forget vinyl, reel-to-reel tapes are the last word in sound quality – and they’re making a comeback
We’ve had the vinyl revival, now comes the reel renaissance.www.whathifi.com
Thought i add this to the mix
I thought it was going to be cassettes...
Jasonovich
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I'm not an audiophile, I'm just an older person who started out with nothing but vinyl and then like the idiot I am I threw them all away when I got my first CD player, somewhere around 300 records got round filed, some of those today would probably be worth some money.
Then vinyl started to make a comeback, so I dug out my old 1976 Rotel RP1000, placed the two stylus's I had on two different carts, bought some records along with cleaning stuff etc. But then I ran into a few problems, apparently most of the new pressings are not done well at all like they were done years ago when a recording first came out.
The other problem is you can go buy a vinyl recording that was originally recorded in 2025, but all you are getting is a digital mastered recording that was put through a digital mixer that was then put onto an analog vinyl record, but doing that didn't magically turn that recording into analog, it's a fake analog record.
The other problem I found out was that you can buy new pressings of a record done say in the late 60s, but that master tape has now degraded over the years, so the recording quality is not as good as it once was originally.
There are more and more modern recording artist that are beginning to do two masters' at the same time, one on digital and the other on analog but they are so far the exception, but hopefully as time goes on this will become commonplace. But I believe they still use a digital mixer for both.
You really have to do your research when buying a vinyl record or even a CD. If you ask Co-Pilot about the record you want to buy, you can ask it which is the best recording quality from that artist, and it will give you one or two choices and why those choices are the best. Not all CD's and records are recorded for release as top notch recordings, it depends on the price point, a recording found at Walmart will not be as good as one you might get at a record/CD store.
Vinyl is also delicate; you can't handle them the same as you would a CD or you can scratch them. Modern vinyl is not as durable as the older original records were, not sure why, might be due to virgin vinyl vs recycled? 180 gram records are supposedly virgin vinyl, and the those will have a better recording quality vs the thinner 120 or 140 grm records.
Modern vinyl is a hobbyist thing, something you want to do because you like the tactical feel of a record, you like the degree of warmth that the sound has, you like paying more attention to the care of the record.
If you are only wanting to try it, start with a low-cost turntable like the Audio-Technica AT-LP60X Fully Automatic Belt-Drive deck that cost around $220, don't choke on that price, my Rotel back in 1976 cost me $145 on a closeout sale, in today's dollars that's an $850 turntable! The reality is to get a good turntable in today's world a person should spend between $800 to $1,300, that is the sweet spot. Starting out don't go that high until you figure out if you want to go all in then save up money for something like a NAD C588 or a MoFi Studio deck. Once you get into the NAD or the MoFi, nothing more expensive is going to give you any hearing benefit, the long-term durability improves a bit with the MoFi. There are cheaper turntables than that Audio Technica, but the sound quality will suffer dramatically then you'll wonder what all the fuss was about with vinyl and blame the format and not the mechanical reasons.
By the way, LPs do not suck, they only suck to the person who didn't buy the right equipment, didn't know how to clean them and de-static them, etc., then they blame the format as I alluded to above.
Then vinyl started to make a comeback, so I dug out my old 1976 Rotel RP1000, placed the two stylus's I had on two different carts, bought some records along with cleaning stuff etc. But then I ran into a few problems, apparently most of the new pressings are not done well at all like they were done years ago when a recording first came out.
The other problem is you can go buy a vinyl recording that was originally recorded in 2025, but all you are getting is a digital mastered recording that was put through a digital mixer that was then put onto an analog vinyl record, but doing that didn't magically turn that recording into analog, it's a fake analog record.
The other problem I found out was that you can buy new pressings of a record done say in the late 60s, but that master tape has now degraded over the years, so the recording quality is not as good as it once was originally.
There are more and more modern recording artist that are beginning to do two masters' at the same time, one on digital and the other on analog but they are so far the exception, but hopefully as time goes on this will become commonplace. But I believe they still use a digital mixer for both.
You really have to do your research when buying a vinyl record or even a CD. If you ask Co-Pilot about the record you want to buy, you can ask it which is the best recording quality from that artist, and it will give you one or two choices and why those choices are the best. Not all CD's and records are recorded for release as top notch recordings, it depends on the price point, a recording found at Walmart will not be as good as one you might get at a record/CD store.
Vinyl is also delicate; you can't handle them the same as you would a CD or you can scratch them. Modern vinyl is not as durable as the older original records were, not sure why, might be due to virgin vinyl vs recycled? 180 gram records are supposedly virgin vinyl, and the those will have a better recording quality vs the thinner 120 or 140 grm records.
Modern vinyl is a hobbyist thing, something you want to do because you like the tactical feel of a record, you like the degree of warmth that the sound has, you like paying more attention to the care of the record.
If you are only wanting to try it, start with a low-cost turntable like the Audio-Technica AT-LP60X Fully Automatic Belt-Drive deck that cost around $220, don't choke on that price, my Rotel back in 1976 cost me $145 on a closeout sale, in today's dollars that's an $850 turntable! The reality is to get a good turntable in today's world a person should spend between $800 to $1,300, that is the sweet spot. Starting out don't go that high until you figure out if you want to go all in then save up money for something like a NAD C588 or a MoFi Studio deck. Once you get into the NAD or the MoFi, nothing more expensive is going to give you any hearing benefit, the long-term durability improves a bit with the MoFi. There are cheaper turntables than that Audio Technica, but the sound quality will suffer dramatically then you'll wonder what all the fuss was about with vinyl and blame the format and not the mechanical reasons.
By the way, LPs do not suck, they only suck to the person who didn't buy the right equipment, didn't know how to clean them and de-static them, etc., then they blame the format as I alluded to above.
There is an issue with going back to tape format. Yes, the 1/4 to 1/2 tape sounded fantastic, in fact better than any CD by a large margin, but there are problems with all of that.
Tapes degrade over use and over time and thus the sound quality degrades.
They no longer make tape out of Type II High‑Bias “Pure” Ferricobalt; or Type II Ferrichrome; or Type IV Pure Metal Particle. Why? Because of our federal government who said those products contained chemicals that were not good for the environment. That means there is no longer any tape made that even comes close to the sound quality of those old tapes that used the banned chemicals, they are now normal bias tapes, which have background tape noise.
Even those high-quality tapes that used the banned chemicals had the same issue of wearing out over time, or degrading with the passage of time.
Another problem is if you start searching for some music that is pre-recorded new reel to reel tape that tape can cost you over $800! And what you get is normal bias tape with the background hiss? No thanks.
The last problem is, you will probably have to buy a used tape machine due to the price of the new ones, parts for those old units are scarce, and on some models impossible to find. The price for new ones is just insane to pay $17,000 for a reel-to-reel machine and play crappy made tapes through it!
Maybe someday if tapes start to be all the rage a tape company will start experimenting with legal chemicals and come up with a fantastic quality tape, but so far that's not happening because there is no money yet to justify spending the R&D to make a high quality tape.
Tapes degrade over use and over time and thus the sound quality degrades.
They no longer make tape out of Type II High‑Bias “Pure” Ferricobalt; or Type II Ferrichrome; or Type IV Pure Metal Particle. Why? Because of our federal government who said those products contained chemicals that were not good for the environment. That means there is no longer any tape made that even comes close to the sound quality of those old tapes that used the banned chemicals, they are now normal bias tapes, which have background tape noise.
Even those high-quality tapes that used the banned chemicals had the same issue of wearing out over time, or degrading with the passage of time.
Another problem is if you start searching for some music that is pre-recorded new reel to reel tape that tape can cost you over $800! And what you get is normal bias tape with the background hiss? No thanks.
The last problem is, you will probably have to buy a used tape machine due to the price of the new ones, parts for those old units are scarce, and on some models impossible to find. The price for new ones is just insane to pay $17,000 for a reel-to-reel machine and play crappy made tapes through it!
Maybe someday if tapes start to be all the rage a tape company will start experimenting with legal chemicals and come up with a fantastic quality tape, but so far that's not happening because there is no money yet to justify spending the R&D to make a high quality tape.
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