The WHF Film Club

[expat_mike]

Now we just need to flush Mike out.

You teaser. I have just woken up from a nap, following a light supper containing a lot of creamy cheese - and you have made me feel hungry again.

I will check the films, and get back to you shortly.

 

[expat_mike]

My votes are:

Jules et Jim 3 pts

Peeping Tom 2 pts

Trial 1 pt

 

[expat_mike]

I rewatched PL last night. It was more disturbing than I remembered. Can I kick things off by posing a couple of questions - what do people think the purpose of the magic realism was? Would / could the film have worked as a 'straight' Spanish Civil War film?

I have been thinking about this for a while, and come to the conclusion that the answer is no.

If just a 'straight' Spanish Civil War film, we see the Director portraying the Republicans as his preferred side, and the Fascists as the baddies.

However right at the end of the film we see Ofelia granted immortality, because she refused to spill the blood of an innocent. You can possibly interpret this as an anti war sentiment, because the Director saying that in the Spanish Civil War, both sides spilled innocent blood, so neither side was fully "good" - only Ofelia was good enough to earn immortality. To be able to offer immortality to one of the characters, the Director needed to include either religion or magic realism.

Interesting, thanks Mike. I too don't think it would work anything like as well, possibly not at all, as a straight civil war film. In terms of audience reaction, I believe views on the subject are still sufficiently raw that some sort of alternative context probably makes it rather more palatable, especially as the small village / adjacent forest setting is quite intimate and intense.

I think on a simple basis GDT just likes that fantasy stuff and, as with Chronos, wanted to get in his film. I think he's trying to show a contrast between the fantasy and reality, either that Ofelia has to use it to escape the physical horror of war and the emotional horror of her family setup or, if one interprets it literally, that an innocent in the war can only come from a fantasy place. As strapped has hinted at, I think there's ideas there about immortality v mortality and ephemerality, but it's probably a bit beyond me to say exactly what.

Quite possible.

This reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend approx 25 years ago, where i stated that I couldn't see the point of science fiction, and he replied correctly that science fiction allowed you to take issues from the real world, and explore them in a new environment, unhindered by the constraints of the real world. In a similar manner, the use of fantasy gives GDT a similar unconstrained canvas, to allow the viewers to explore the issues of good, war, horror, immortality etc.

 

[BenLaw]

So I make that 11 points The Trial, 10 points Peeping Tom, 9 points Jules et Jim and therefore a narrow vote for The Trial?

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

That's what I made it too Ben, I'll start seeking out a copy of The Trial.

Just going to watch Volver now.

Has everyone/anyone watched Delicatessen yet?

 

[BenLaw]

Not yet. Watched Blood on Satan's Claw tonight (I'm sure no one was thinking of it, but don't bother if you were) and have Visitor Q lined up to replace that. If I get to watch that in the week I'll try and do Delicatessen next weekend.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

have Visitor Q lined up

I really can't wait to hear your thoughts.

 

[richardw42]

Just ordered a copy of The Trial from eBay for £4.70 (P&P included)

Peeping Tom is on Amazon Instant.

 

[John Duncan]

Having worked odd days there I can think of better places I'd like to spend half a year.... Is it well paid enough to make it worthwhile?

Well I get paid the same wherever I work, though obviously they put me up and I have allowances for lunch and dinner. On the other hand, a) I wouldn't see my wife and children four days a week and b) Bradford.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Just going to watch Volver now.

Enjoyed it, good film.

 

[BenLaw]

Just ordered a copy of The Trial from eBay for £4.70 (P&P included)

Peeping Tom is on Amazon Instant.

That must be the DVD at that price? No idea what the quality is like on that but the blu ray is fantastic for anyone else looking to buy.

 

[BenLaw]

Having worked odd days there I can think of better places I'd like to spend half a year.... Is it well paid enough to make it worthwhile?

Well I get paid the same wherever I work, though obviously they put me up and I have allowances for lunch and dinner. On the other hand, a) I wouldn't see my wife and children four days a week and b) Bradford.

If you get paid the same I'm struggling to see the attraction.

 

[John Duncan]

Well they're not really *asking* me...

 

[richardw42]

Just ordered a copy of The Trial from eBay for £4.70 (P&P included)

Peeping Tom is on Amazon Instant.

That must be the DVD at that price? No idea what the quality is like on that but the blu ray is fantastic for anyone else looking to buy.

yes. It's the DVD. There was a more recent DVD release and blu ray on Amazon, but I didn't want to pay £15 for a film I might watch once.

It £4.49 to rent on iTunes, so though I might as well buy it for a few pence more.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Just going to watch Volver now.

Enjoyed it, good film.

Went to see this at the cinema - wasn't expecting much, but really enjoyed it.

 

[BenLaw]

Well they're not really *asking* me...

Ah, that sounds a bit pants. I thought it was a job offer. On the bright side you'll live much closer to me.

 

[BenLaw]

Just ordered a copy of The Trial from eBay for £4.70 (P&P included)

Peeping Tom is on Amazon Instant.

That must be the DVD at that price? No idea what the quality is like on that but the blu ray is fantastic for anyone else looking to buy.

yes. It's the DVD. There was a more recent DVD release and blu ray on Amazon, but I didn't want to pay £15 for a film I might watch once.

It £4.49 to rent on iTunes, so though I might as well buy it for a few pence more.

Yes that makes sense. I've either rented or already owned all the film club films so far.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Well they're not really *asking* me...

I visited a mate in Leeds in December, and we spent half a day in Bradford.

My observations from that brief visit, and talking to my mate were, Bradford is the poor relation to Leeds, very little money is spent on it, and because of this, it is a little run down.

Positives. It's next to Leeds, and it's got a good National Media Museum.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Just going to watch Volver now.

Enjoyed it, good film.

Went to see this at the cinema - wasn't expecting much, but really enjoyed it.

You can see the plot twist coming a mile off, but it doesn't reduce your enjoyment of the film.

 

[strapped for cash]

Of those, I've only seen Touch of Evil, so I may be unfairly rejecting a genre. Having said that, I really didn't get on with Touch of Evil, could not see what all the fuss was about. Given that and my indifference to Double Indemnity, would you recommend any of the others in particular?

Out of interest, which version of Touch of Evil have you seen? (Perhaps all three, though I'm not sure this is possible without owning the BD.)

If you don't get on with noir, I'm not sure what I'd recommend. The Big Heat, Scarlet Street, and Kiss me Deadly are at the nastier (or more nihilistic) end of the noir spectrum.

What about revisionist examples? For example, Chinatown, or The Long Goodbye? Then there are examples of "tech-noir," such as Blade Runner and The Terminator.

Rather than thinking of noir as a discrete genre, associated with 1950s cinema, it helps to think of this category as an extension of expressionistic tendencies in early 20th century European filmmaking. Without Nosferatu, Metropolis, and M, post-WWII US cinema may have looked very different, especially since German emigres (Murnau and Lang) worked in Hollywood after the 1940s.

The Third Man didn't come to mind in the context of discussing noire. Partly because no-one calls anyone else 'doll' and the dialogue doesn't seem stilited. Also because I now associate it more with the Graham Greene angle. And there's not a major femme fatale as seems to be common to many noirs. But I can see why it would be put in that category, and to that extent I'll add it to Sunset Boulevard!

This is where we get into problems of genre. There is no perfect genre; or at least nobody has offered a convincing map of a single genre category. Film genres arguably have more to do with marketing.

As I think we discussed before, The Third Man contains expressionist and realist elements, though it's included on certain "greatest ever film noir" lists. Our points of investment influence how we situate a film, hence the Graham Greene angle's importance to yourself.

I guess it comes down to which "noir" archetypes are important to different people. The absence of a femme fatale may exclude a film for one person, while another may associate noir with stylistic approaches that are certainly employed in The Third Man.

 

[richardw42]

Watched Delicatessen.

Recognised lead actor from Micmacs.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Watched Delicatessen.

Recognised lead actor from Micmacs.

Can't remember his name, but he was also in one of the Alien movies.

 

[richardw42]

I've just googled him (Dominique Piñon), he was in Alien Resurrection, also in Amelie, but I've not seen that in ages. Feel like I need to.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I've just googled him (Dominique Piñon), he was in Alien Resurrection, also in Amelie, but I've not seen that in ages. Feel like I need to.

Amelie's good fun, but I've no real desire to watch it again.

 

[John Duncan]

I've just googled him (Dominique Piñon), he was in Alien Resurrection, also in Amelie, but I've not seen that in ages. Feel like I need to.

I thought you meant Brian Glover.