The WHF Film Club

[Frank Harvey]

Watching Fear And Loathing In Las Vegas, then Where The Buffalo Roam tonight...

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I rewatched PL last night. It was more disturbing than I remembered. Can I kick things off by posing a couple of questions - what do people think the purpose of the magic realism was? Would / could the film have worked as a 'straight' Spanish Civil War film?

I have been thinking about this for a while, and come to the conclusion that the answer is no.

If just a 'straight' Spanish Civil War film, we see the Director portraying the Republicans as his preferred side, and the Fascists as the baddies.

However right at the end of the film we see Ofelia granted immortality, because she refused to spill the blood of an innocent. You can possibly interpret this as an anti war sentiment, because the Director saying that in the Spanish Civil War, both sides spilled innocent blood, so neither side was fully "good" - only Ofelia was good enough to earn immortality. To be able to offer immortality to one of the characters, the Director needed to include either religion or magic realism.

I like your thinking Mike, I'd never thought of it like that. :clap:

 

[strapped for cash]

Film4 is also showing Xala late tonight, for anyone interested in "Third Cinema" or "counter cinema." (Think Bamoko, if searching for a more recent example. If you've seen this, you'll have a rough idea of what to expect. Not that the two films are too alike.)

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Film4 is also showing Xala late tonight, for anyone interested in "Third Cinema" or "counter cinema." (Think Bamoko, if searching for a more recent example. If you've seen this, you'll have a rough idea of what to expect. Not that the two films are too alike.)

Cheers Strapped. Another addition to my large, and growing, movies to watch list.

 

[BenLaw]

Film4 is also showing Xala late tonight, for anyone interested in "Third Cinema" or "counter cinema." (Think Bamoko, if searching for a more recent example. If you've seen this, you'll have a rough idea of what to expect. Not that the two films are too alike.)

Never even heard of Third Cinema, let alone the film, but set to record, thanks strapped.

Plan to reply to some other posts later, incl my proposals.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Plan to reply to some other posts later, incl my proposals.

I hope I haven't listed one of your proposals on eBay, if I was correct in my guess, then I haven't. ray:

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

While we're recommending films on Film4, Seven Samurai is on at 11.40pm next Tuesday.

It's not my favourite Kurosawa film, but it's regarded by critics as his best work.

 

[strapped for cash]

BBB and Ben, it's probably worth googling "Third Cinema," at the very least, before watching the film. I can't promise that you'll like it.

For a better understanding, you can access Fernando Solanas and Octavio Getino's manifesto "Towards a Third Cinema" (English translation) here:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/s/a/sam50/readings521/SOL-GET_3rd-Cinema.pdf

 

[BenLaw]

Plan to reply to some other posts later, incl my proposals.

I hope I haven't listed one of your proposals on eBay, if I was correct in my guess, then I haven't. ray:

I said a while back I was torn between two films for my third choice. The one I was going to propose was the subject of our bet. I've just rewatched, and really enjoyed, Berberian Sound Studio, which is tipping me toward my other choice for third film. I need to cogitate.

 

[richardw42]

I can't help feeling when we get to my 3 you'll all be a little underwhelmed.

Take your pick from the Back To The Future Trilogy.

 

[BenLaw]

I can't help feeling when we get to my 3 you'll all be a little underwhelmed.

Take your pick from the Back To The Future Trilogy.

I'm guessing you haven't watched Le Quattro Volte?

 

[richardw42]

Not even heard of it

im sure the Film Club will broaden my viewing.

 

[BenLaw]

Sorry, I guess that makes it an in-joke. It was my first selection for the film club. Just observing that any of the Back to the Future films would probably have been more popular...

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

im sure the Film Club will broaden my viewing.

I'm sure it will. And we'll have no more talk of Back To The Future thank you.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

Sorry, I guess that makes it an in-joke. It was my first selection for the film club. Just observing that any of the Back to the Future films would probably have been more popular...

Let it go Ben, it wasn't that unpopular. I think my first choice was on a par in the popularity stakes.

 

[BenLaw]

Sorry, I guess that makes it an in-joke. It was my first selection for the film club. Just observing that any of the Back to the Future films would probably have been more popular...

Let it go Ben, it wasn't that unpopular. I think my first choice was on a par in the popularity stakes.

Haha, not going to let it go til something else is *genuinely* less popular Don't worry, if everyone was pleased all of the time something wouldn't be right, and part of the point of this is for people to get out of their comfort zones from time to time, I know I have.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

part of the point of this is for people to get out of their comfort zones from time to time, I know I have.

I totally agree, I think my next 3 choices will contain at least one film that I haven't seen.

I was thinking about proposing a new club rule. Any film that 3 or more members had previously seen, could not be nominated as one of the three choices.

What do you think?

 

[BenLaw]

May be getting a bit tricky in terms of pre-selecting selections. I guess if there was strong feeling against a particular proposal for that sort of reason there could be a change to the choices, but it would probably be easier for people who've watched a film before who don't want to again simply to only give that film one point.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

That works in a way, but I think we'd all seen Pan's Labyrinth before, and it still got chosen. Don't get me wrong, I love the film, but I'd like to discover some new films that are equally as good, rather than watch favourites over and over.

I'm looking forward to your suggestions.

 

[BenLaw]

Yep I agree. IIRC I gave it one point for that reason. I'll do my three tomorrow after reflecting on my third choice.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I've just finished watching Double Indemnity, I won't be watching it again. It was ok, but really only that, nothing more.

Have you watched Gozu or Visitor Q yet?

 

[BenLaw]

I've just finished watching Delicatessen, now moving on to a classic old Film Noir, Double Indemnity, if I can stay awake.

I watched that two days ago! Did you record it from film4? I enjoyed it but given that it's meant to be one of the archetypal noirs I think all it's done is confirm for me that I'm not really into noir. Sunset Boulevard is about the only film it can think of which might fall into that category which I want to (and do) own.

There are many great films that fall broadly under the "noir" umbrella. (And for what it's worth, I'm a fan of Double Indemnity.)

Have you seen The Big Sleep, The Big Heat, Kiss Me Deadly, Scarlet Street, or Touch of Evil (arguably the best Eureka BD release to date)? These are just a few archetypal examples, before we consider terms such as "neo-noir" or "tech-noir."

Then there's The Third Man... (I know you're a big enough fan to consider importing the vastly overpriced Criterion BD.)

Of those, I've only seen Touch of Evil, so I may be unfairly rejecting a genre. Having said that, I really didn't get on with Touch of Evil, could not see what all the fuss was about. Given that and my indifference to Double Indemnity, would you recommend any of the others in particular?

The Third Man didn't come to mind in the context of discussing noire. Partly because no-one calls anyone else 'doll' and the dialogue doesn't seem stilited. Also because I now associate it more with the Graham Greene angle. And there's not a major femme fatale as seems to be common to many noirs. But I can see why it would be put in that category, and to that extent I'll add it to Sunset Boulevard!

 

[BenLaw]

I rewatched PL last night. It was more disturbing than I remembered. Can I kick things off by posing a couple of questions - what do people think the purpose of the magic realism was? Would / could the film have worked as a 'straight' Spanish Civil War film?

I have been thinking about this for a while, and come to the conclusion that the answer is no.

If just a 'straight' Spanish Civil War film, we see the Director portraying the Republicans as his preferred side, and the Fascists as the baddies.

However right at the end of the film we see Ofelia granted immortality, because she refused to spill the blood of an innocent. You can possibly interpret this as an anti war sentiment, because the Director saying that in the Spanish Civil War, both sides spilled innocent blood, so neither side was fully "good" - only Ofelia was good enough to earn immortality. To be able to offer immortality to one of the characters, the Director needed to include either religion or magic realism.

Interesting, thanks Mike. I too don't think it would work anything like as well, possibly not at all, as a straight civil war film. In terms of audience reaction, I believe views on the subject are still sufficiently raw that some sort of alternative context probably makes it rather more palatable, especially as the small village / adjacent forest setting is quite intimate and intense.

I think on a simple basis GDT just likes that fantasy stuff and, as with Chronos, wanted to get in his film. I think he's trying to show a contrast between the fantasy and reality, either that Ofelia has to use it to escape the physical horror of war and the emotional horror of her family setup or, if one interprets it literally, that an innocent in the war can only come from a fantasy place. As strapped has hinted at, I think there's ideas there about immortality v mortality and ephemerality, but it's probably a bit beyond me to say exactly what.

 

[BenLaw]

BBB and Ben, it's probably worth googling "Third Cinema," at the very least, before watching the film. I can't promise that you'll like it.

For a better understanding, you can access Fernando Solanas and Octavio Getino's manifesto "Towards a Third Cinema" (English translation) here:

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/s/a/sam50/readings521/SOL-GET_3rd-Cinema.pdf

I've only read the wiki entry, so may not be properly be informed. It sounds like an interesting idea, although a division between Hollywood production model / auteur director European art film / film inspiring revolutionary activism seems a bit artifical. It seems to make Third Cinema a little niche, particularly if it also has to qualify by being screened clandestinely (I'm guessing being on Film 4 doesn't count, even if it is the last film of the night). Still, I'm looking forward to seeing how that pans out in practice and will post back when I've watched it.

 

[BenLaw]

I've just finished watching Double Indemnity, I won't be watching it again. It was ok, but really only that, nothing more.

Have you watched Gozu or Visitor Q yet?

No, not yet, I've watched about 140 films in 16 months via Lovefilm, but my list is around 450 at the moment!