The WHF Film Club

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

For reasons I'll get into later, that's quite an apposite response.

Ahhhh, the wonders of the internet, I now know the meaning of a word I'd never heard before.

 

[BenLaw]

For reasons I'll get into later, that's quite an apposite response.

Ahhhh, the wonders of the internet, I now know the meaning of a word I'd never heard before.

Response?

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

For reasons I'll get into later, that's quite an apposite response.

Ahhhh, the wonders of the internet, I now know the meaning of a word I'd never heard before.

Response?

I quite liked PPs response actually, highly amusing.

 

[BenLaw]

Well, I've watched MD. I thought I was doing quite well up until the last half hour. Then I decided to do a little reading on the subject and realised I was doing terribly up until the last half hour (and, of course, from then on). At least I identified that as a significant moment, but it's not saying much.

I have a few thoughts now, some of them even my own. Just JD we're waiting for now?

 

[strapped for cash]

We can make complete sense of this film when we get round to discussing it, every frame, if members are willing to go into detail (I've offered several clues over the last few pages.)

The key to unlocking the film lies in the answer to question number one. If we can reach this point, the details and nuances become far more interesting. It's worth persevering.

Incidentally, if anyone has seen Lost Highway, and manged to figure out what's going on there, it's useful to think of Mulholland Drive as a companion piece.

 

[BenLaw]

Indeed. I hadn't worked out the answer to question one properly; having done some reading I think I now have it. Kind of cheating but it's happened now.

I've got Lost Highway (part of a Lynch set) but not sure I'll have time to see it as part of this discussion.

 

[strapped for cash]

Kind of cheating but it's happened now.

I'm familiar with interpretations offered online. I think we can say a lot more; though recognising where the film transitions between conscious and unconscious forms of representation (or dream and "reality," or indeed Betty and Diane) is key to unlocking more.

It's an incredibly rich film in terms of character psychology, though the more you figure out, the more unsettling/upsetting the story becomes. It's quite a heavy downer.

 

[BenLaw]

I think another question may draw stuff out: who is the protagonist?

Edit: I'm reading one site which I doubt I could ever 'say a lot more' than! If you're not aware of it I think you'd find it interesting but I won't link to it now.

 

[strapped for cash]

I'd argue that there's only one protagonist, though identifying their correct name is important. (This is perhaps what you meant.)

There's one website in particular that deals with interpretations; and offers something approaching a thesis length reading of the film. I'm guessing we're talking about the same website. If so, I agree with much of the main interpretation, if not everything. (I actually think the author overcomplicates or misreads a few things, and engages in unnecessary imaginative flourishes.)

 

[BenLaw]

Yep, one protagonist but identity and manifestation seems pertinent to the wider issues.

Sounds like we're talking about the same website, the bits I've read certainly seem to address your questions.

 

[strapped for cash]

I should say, it's probably a good four or five years since I read anything on that website.

From what I recall, the main essay does a pretty good job of unravelling the film's narrative, though there's less said about Mulholland Drive as a film in dialogue with American film history, and as commentary on Hollywood as a film industry and mode of representation.

I'm guessing you've seen Sunset Boulevard (itself a film about Hollywood, dreams, and delusion)? That's probably saying too much at this stage, since we're not officially discussing the film yet. Sorry about that....

 

[strapped for cash]

Yep, one protagonist but identity and manifestation seems pertinent to the wider issues.

Or issues of denial and self perception.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I can't even find the questions you posed before we watched the film, so I've no chance have I?

Which page are they on Strapped?

 

[strapped for cash]

Mike quoted the questions on p. 78.

 

[BenLaw]

I should say, it's probably a good four or five years since I read anything on that website.

From what I recall, the main essay does a pretty good job of unravelling the film's narrative, though there's less said about Mulholland Drive as a film in dialogue with American film history, and as commentary on Hollywood as a film industry and mode of representation.

I'm guessing you've seen Sunset Boulevard (itself a film about Hollywood, dreams, and delusion)? That's probably saying too much at this stage, since we're not officially discussing the film yet. Sorry about that....

Sunset Boulevard is one of my favourite films of all time.

The website certainly mentions that it will come onto film references and has some commentary on the film industry, including one overt and another likely inspiration for the protagonist. I assume there's further references in the parts I haven't read.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I think I need to see it again.

I could offer some kind of answer for question 3, and I think I might have an idea about question 1, 2 might come with a further viewing, but having not seen any Lynch films before, I can offer no answer at all for 4.

It's certainly a film you need to give all your attention to, and having watched it over 2 nights, falling asleep on the first night, and getting distracted on the second, I don't think I stood a chance of understanding it, though it's definitely a possibility that I will.

 

[BenLaw]

I think I need to see it again.

I could offer some kind of answer for question 3, and I think I might have an idea about question 1, 2 might come with a further viewing, but having not seen any Lynch films before, I can offer no answer at all for 4.

It's certainly a film you need to give all your attention to, and having watched it over 2 nights, falling asleep on the first night, and getting distracted on the second, I don't think I stood a chance of understanding it, though it's definitely a possibility that I will.

One of the things I'd be interested in people's views on is the fact (it seems to me) that it is impossible to understand the film in a single viewing. I don't know how many viewings it would have taken me to work it out on my own. The website I've been reading says that the film was originally conceived, and to an extent shot, as a series rather than a film, which goes some way to explaining the complexity of the plot, themes and imagery.

 

[BIGBERNARDBRESSLAW]

I think I need to see it again.

I could offer some kind of answer for question 3, and I think I might have an idea about question 1, 2 might come with a further viewing, but having not seen any Lynch films before, I can offer no answer at all for 4.

It's certainly a film you need to give all your attention to, and having watched it over 2 nights, falling asleep on the first night, and getting distracted on the second, I don't think I stood a chance of understanding it, though it's definitely a possibility that I will.

One of the things I'd be interested in people's views on is the fact (it seems to me) that it is impossible to understand the film in a single viewing. I don't know how many viewings it would have taken me to work it out on my own. The website I've been reading says that the film was originally conceived, and to an extent shot, as a series rather than a film, which goes some way to explaining the complexity of the plot, themes and imagery.

I think it would be possible to understand it after one viewing, but you would have to be really awake, and really concentrated, neither of which I could manage.

I've seen far more confusing movies, that's for certain.

 

[strapped for cash]

The website certainly mentions that it will come onto film references and has some commentary on the film industry, including one overt and another likely inspiration for the protagonist. I assume there's further references in the parts I haven't read.

I just skim-read parts of the essay; and the author indeed discusses intertextual references, though I think some links he makes are rather tenuous.

I also find some of the author's extrapolations highly subjective, though in my view he's spot on in his discussion of the colour of blue.

There's more detail here than I recall. Nevertheless, I think we should stick to the facts, rather than some of the author's more speculative claims (about why Lynch chose the name Betty, or links with the The Black Dahlia).

I also disagree with the author's commentary on "grandparents." (More on this when we discuss the audition scenes.)

Sunset Boulevard is one of my favourite films of all time.

Sunset Boulevard is of course overtly referenced in Mulholland Drive. It's interesting in terms of the representation of mental illness, too, but that's another matter.

 

[strapped for cash]

I'd argue that it's almost impossible to understand the film on a single viewing. Even if you worked out which parts were "real" (and this is bloody difficult due to issues of chronology), there's no way you could grasp the film's nuances.

It's interesting to revisit reviews written when the film was first released. Critics had no idea what it was about, though many stated that it was a masterpiece.

Several critics discussed mood, Alice in Wonderland, or described the film as a head f*ck, which is another way of saying "I didn't get it, but I'd rather not admit this." Other critics argued that the film was incoherent nonsense, and that those suggesting otherwise were deluding themselves.

That's not me having a pop at critics. I certainly didn't get the film on my first viewing. In fact, it really p*ssed me off.

 

[strapped for cash]

I don't know how many viewings it would have taken me to work it out on my own.

Figuring the film out (or piecing together the basic narrative) is one thing, but the details make this a rich film to revisit. I'm evangelising, I know.

 

[expat_mike]

One of the things I'd be interested in people's views on is the fact (it seems to me) that it is impossible to understand the film in a single viewing. I don't know how many viewings it would have taken me to work it out on my own. The website I've been reading says that the film was originally conceived, and to an extent shot, as a series rather than a film, which goes some way to explaining the complexity of the plot, themes and imagery.

I thought that I had understood only a small part of the film after 1 viewing, and then I read these "clues" and realised that my interpretations of sections of the film were completely different - so roughly zilch understood after 1 viewing.

http://www.mulholland-drive.net/studies/10clues.htm

 

[BenLaw]

I think I need to see it again.

I could offer some kind of answer for question 3, and I think I might have an idea about question 1, 2 might come with a further viewing, but having not seen any Lynch films before, I can offer no answer at all for 4.

It's certainly a film you need to give all your attention to, and having watched it over 2 nights, falling asleep on the first night, and getting distracted on the second, I don't think I stood a chance of understanding it, though it's definitely a possibility that I will.

One of the things I'd be interested in people's views on is the fact (it seems to me) that it is impossible to understand the film in a single viewing. I don't know how many viewings it would have taken me to work it out on my own. The website I've been reading says that the film was originally conceived, and to an extent shot, as a series rather than a film, which goes some way to explaining the complexity of the plot, themes and imagery.

I think it would be possible to understand it after one viewing, but you would have to be really awake, and really concentrated, neither of which I could manage.

I've seen far more confusing movies, that's for certain.

I don't see how it would be possible to know the answer to question one at the first point it would be relevant.

OOI what more confusing films have you seen? I've one pretty confusing one that will probably make my list of three suggestions next time and Holy Motors was similarly confusing. Can't think of many more off the top of my head.

 

[BenLaw]

The website certainly mentions that it will come onto film references and has some commentary on the film industry, including one overt and another likely inspiration for the protagonist. I assume there's further references in the parts I haven't read.

I just skim-read parts of the essay; and the author indeed discusses intertextual references, though I think some links he makes are rather tenuous.

I also find some of the author's extrapolations highly subjective, though in my view he's spot on in his discussion of the colour of blue.

There's more detail here than I recall. Nevertheless, I think we should stick to the facts, rather than some of the author's more speculative claims (about why Lynch chose the name Betty, or links with the The Black Dahlia).

I also disagree with the author's commentary on "grandparents." (More on this when we discuss the audition scenes.)

Sunset Boulevard is one of my favourite films of all time.

Sunset Boulevard is of course overtly referenced in Mulholland Drive. It's interesting in terms of the representation of mental illness, too, but that's another matter.

Yes, my initial uneducated reaction was there were a few overworkings of cultural references, the names in particular. I also wasn't comfortable with the grandparents but will need to have a proper think about that.

We may have discussed it before but if you saw Silver Linings Playbook what did you make of its depiction of mental illness?

 

[BenLaw]

I don't know how many viewings it would have taken me to work it out on my own.

Figuring the film out (or piecing together the basic narrative) is one thing, but the details make this a rich film to revisit. I'm evangelising, I know.

Oh yeah, when I say 'work out' I only mean 'have the first clue what's going on'!