The new AVI ADM5 active loudspeakers.

[plastic penguin]

AVI state, clearly and often, that they are not interested in the traditional hi-fi separates market, with any of their products. The fanboys are not typical of their customers who, once again according to AVI, are in the main not remote interested in hi-fi values but want good quality music from modern, non hi-fi sources with the minimum of effort.

Without a good system, properly set up, 320mbs mp3 is indistinguishable from CD for most people, which leavea AVI clear to concentrate on a product that delivers music with clarity, presence and a remarkable control from speakers that are often far from optimally positioned.

For many coming to ADMs for the first time the presence and control that they exhibit, even when not optimally positioned is what is so convincing, that they do not have the last word in resolution or the refinement of the better passive speakers is beside the point.

I think you'll find that AVI (and their customers) regularly claim that their products exceed the quality of more traditional hi-fi by a massive margin.

They are on record stating that a pair of ADMs will out-perform £5K and even £10K hi-fi systems in all respects including resolution and refinement.

They don't qualify such statements in the context of non hi-fi sources or systems. They clearly - and frequently - claim absolute superiority of their products over traditional hi-fi (at any price/performance level) and won't tolerate any discussion on this matter.

Again, for what it is worth, I have heard a fair number of £5-£10k systems in peoples homes that would be quite easily outperformed by a pair of ADMs...

This is what I find disturbing. I don't give a monkeys if it's better than a £20k system. It's like me saying a brand new BMW 3 series is technically better than my Alfa. But it wouldn't give me half the fun? Same goes for my kit. It has taken me long time to get it to this point: It has a certain sound that I've not heard before. Your stategy may work with the gullible, but certainly doesn't cut any cloth with me.

If you're looking to impress that isn't the way to do it. Trying to alienate people? It's working.

What I find disturbing is your inability to read and understand english, then get on your high horse and verbaly abuse someome for something he has not said. You need to have a word with yourself.

If the rubbish in your post is typical of what AVI owners and adocates (I am neither by the way) have to put up with then it is little wonder that they respond in an agressive fashion.

I am responding directly to your written post. You did write: Again, for what it is worth, I have heard a fair number of £5-£10k systems in peoples homes that would be quite easily outperformed by a pair of ADMs... didn't you? I could put the whole post on but quoting figures could be misleading to those who have little or no experience of hi-fis.

I'll hold the pram still for you.

 

[John Duncan]

PP, you seem to be getting upset whilst misunderstanding the point of his original post entirely.

 

[davedotco]

PP, you seem to be getting upset whilst misunderstanding the point of his original post entirely.

Thank you John, but I am getting used to replying to peope who can not read.

What I said was quite clear, a general comment about the performance standard of some expensive systems in some peoples homes. Hi-fi dealers (ex in my case) experience this sort of thing all the time though they may not choose to talk about it in public. I have seen, quite literally, dozens of systems that are poorly chosen, completely inappropriate to their surroundings, badly installed or set up and performing at a mere fraction of their capabilities.

Had I suggested that such a system would be clearly outperformed by (say) a Unitiqute system (in a thread about AVI speakers remember), would I have got the same response?

PP's response that I was challenging his choice of system (or motor car for that matter) is misplaced [LIGHTLY SUBBED BY MODS].

John, if I have gone too far, feel free to edit/delete.

 

[Alec]

plastic penguin:

 

[Ajani]

What I said was quite clear, a general comment about the performance standard of some expensive systems in some peoples homes. Hi-fi dealers (ex in my case) experience this sort of thing all the time though they may not choose to talk about it in public. I have seen, quite literally, dozens of systems that are poorly chosen, completely inappropriate to their surroundings, badly installed or set up and performing at a mere fraction of their capabilities.

Something I've always found amusing in HiFi reviews is the notion that X component sounds better than components costing 3 times as much, etc... As you basically noted it really is a meaningless comparison. A properly matched and setup system will often sound better than a more expensive mismatch of gear.

Even more important (IMO anyway) is simple preference/bias. If I hate the sound of B&W 801Ds, then I can claim that a pair of Rega RS1s (assuming I like the Regas) sound better than the B&Ws for a mere fraction of the price. It is an incredibly stupid comparison though, but it is the type made in HiFi all the time.

 

[Phileas]

If you feel my talking about B&O on AVI's forums is fanboy like behaviour I would apologise

I see no reason to apologise - unless I've misunderstood the meaning of the term. I assumed it just meant a brand enthusiast?

Where I've possibly pushed B&O perhaps a bit to hard over at AVI, is merely in response to the marketing juggernaut over there, where anything non AVI is patently a piece of rubbish that cannot possibly compare. I find such unjustified, insupportable conjecture and speculation, and the denigration of many fine companies and their products in the aid of drumming up business, unfair and unjust, and tend to respond accordingly.

I think you should qualify this sort of statement since it clearly doesn't apply to everyone "over there", or even most.

 

[Paul.]

If you feel my talking about B&O on AVI's forums is fanboy like behaviour I would apologise

I see no reason to apologise - unless I've misunderstood the meaning of the term. I assumed it just meant a brand enthusiast?

Generally a Fanboy (or Fanboi) is someone who will buy on blind faith because they love a brand so much. Calling someone a Fanboy basically belittles their decision as it implies there was little to no thought process involved in said decision.

 

[Paul.]

I heard some bonkers 30 grand system at the Bristol show and I felt my humble setup sounded better. My setup doesn't give me a headache so it wins by default!

 

[fr0g]

plastic penguin:

lolz

 

[atticus]

I'm not sure whether this a good time to say that I heard the new ADM5's today....

I didn't go to auction them, so was unprepared and 'unprimed'; I should point out that no ABX-ing was done, no favourite tracks had been lovingly or carefully compiled and one of the speakers was half-hidden behind an armchair. I certainly wasn't sat in the 'sweet spot'.

Listened to Oscar Peterson (Route 66), Antoni Ros-Marba's version of Beethoven's Violin Concerto in D Major and 'Emphasizing Enharmonic Particles' by Brian Eno (guaranteed to stretch ANY speaker!)

They were DAC'd with an Airport Express and on about the third track I said 'of course you're using the Sub?', and was told 'No'.

They're very bloody good indeed and around about the size of my old Dynaudio 40's. But with way, WAY better sound.

Sorry to interrupt the ongoing argument you're having, folks but I thought I would append something to my mini-review.

One thing that struck me about the ADM5's was that they sounded BIG. Had a curtain been in front of them, I would have guessed at much larger speakers.

Aother thing worth mentioning, which I believe is applicable to most active speakers, is that the sound characteristic remained consistent no matter where the volume was set. With my old setup, there was a 'sweet spot' on the volume control at about the 10 o'clock position. Too low and the music would be under-defined; too high and it would start getting screechy and distorted. The ADM5's are smooth all the way around, (although normal conversation becomes impossible past the 3 o'clock position!)

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Good to see you plugging away there, att1cus!

Perhaps time to leave things to calm down a bit?

 

[BigH]

I'm not sure whether this a good time to say that I heard the new ADM5's today....

I didn't go to auction them, so was unprepared and 'unprimed'; I should point out that no ABX-ing was done, no favourite tracks had been lovingly or carefully compiled and one of the speakers was half-hidden behind an armchair. I certainly wasn't sat in the 'sweet spot'.

Listened to Oscar Peterson (Route 66), Antoni Ros-Marba's version of Beethoven's Violin Concerto in D Major and 'Emphasizing Enharmonic Particles' by Brian Eno (guaranteed to stretch ANY speaker!)

They were DAC'd with an Airport Express and on about the third track I said 'of course you're using the Sub?', and was told 'No'.

They're very bloody good indeed and around about the size of my old Dynaudio 40's. But with way, WAY better sound.

Sorry to interrupt the ongoing argument you're having, folks but I thought I would append something to my mini-review.

One thing that struck me about the ADM5's was that they sounded BIG. Had a curtain been in front of them, I would have guessed at much larger speakers.

Aother thing worth mentioning, which I believe is applicable to most active speakers, is that the sound characteristic remained consistent no matter where the volume was set. With my old setup, there was a 'sweet spot' on the volume control at about the 10 o'clock position. Too low and the music would be under-defined; too high and it would start getting screechy and distorted. The ADM5's are smooth all the way around, (although normal conversation becomes impossible past the 3 o'clock position!)

How do they compare to the ADM9s?

 

[drummerman]

I'm not sure whether this a good time to say that I heard the new ADM5's today....

I didn't go to auction them, so was unprepared and 'unprimed'; I should point out that no ABX-ing was done, no favourite tracks had been lovingly or carefully compiled and one of the speakers was half-hidden behind an armchair. I certainly wasn't sat in the 'sweet spot'.

Listened to Oscar Peterson (Route 66), Antoni Ros-Marba's version of Beethoven's Violin Concerto in D Major and 'Emphasizing Enharmonic Particles' by Brian Eno (guaranteed to stretch ANY speaker!)

They were DAC'd with an Airport Express and on about the third track I said 'of course you're using the Sub?', and was told 'No'.

They're very bloody good indeed and around about the size of my old Dynaudio 40's. But with way, WAY better sound.

Sorry to interrupt the ongoing argument you're having, folks but I thought I would append something to my mini-review.

One thing that struck me about the ADM5's was that they sounded BIG. Had a curtain been in front of them, I would have guessed at much larger speakers.

Aother thing worth mentioning, which I believe is applicable to most active speakers, is that the sound characteristic remained consistent no matter where the volume was set. With my old setup, there was a 'sweet spot' on the volume control at about the 10 o'clock position. Too low and the music would be under-defined; too high and it would start getting screechy and distorted. The ADM5's are smooth all the way around, (although normal conversation becomes impossible past the 3 o'clock position!)

Interesting. I have to say that I haven't noticed volume control sweetspots on my system other than that the smaller of the Denon amplifiers doesn't use its volume control fully, so fine adjustment is limited to the lower part of the gearing. However, I am aware that frequeny response can vary over the range of conventional potentiometers just as output impedance can influence frequency response of speakers.

As to the larger than expected sound I would have assumed that there is at least some psychology at work. I think we all expect a tiny speaker to sound small yet many dont. It is much easier to assume a large speaker will sound just that way. Still, 'large' sound is usually a combination of things, not least bass which gives a solidity and firm foundation to music. If they achieve that then thats impressive.

What would be of more interest to me regarding the ADM5's is their dynamic capability.

Digital amplifiers almost always dont have huge dynamic headroom but are good at nearly doubling their output in to lower loads.

The amp in the 5's is rated at 50watts. That is without a power sapping crossover but it still is only 50watts. That is then almost all I would assume the amplifier is capable of giving during powerful musical peaks.

I just wonder how the small box, with a small driver and 50watts does with such programmes at higher levels or to be more precise, how does the speaker cope with quiet to loud passages at reasonable volume. I wouldn't expect PA sound from something so small, that would be unrealistic.

Do you think the ADM5 could be used as main system and if so, in what sized rooms?

regards

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Why don't you ask on the AVI forum rather than here? There's been enough shilling here for the year, don't you agree, and enough argument.

Let it go, no point in deliberately fanning the flames.

 

[Phileas]

no point in deliberately fanning the flames.

Never seems to deter you.

 

[Alec]

Why don't you ask on the AVI forum rather than here? There's been enough shilling here for the year, don't you agree, and enough argument.

Let it go, no point in deliberately fanning the flames.

he says, after...er...

 

[altruistic.lemon]

No, just telling it like it is.

Incidentally, why doesn't AVI advertise in magazines or provide sample products for review like every other manufacturer under the sun? Why do they positively discourage comparisons and prefer that people buy their products unheard? Why do they encourage their forum/cult members to spread the word on forums by fairly obvious shilling - though I note that is down to this forum alone now, since all others have forbidden this devious practice.

Could it be that there is something about them that (God forbid) is less than perfect, and, as someone dared to express, there are active brands that are better, such as Genelec?

 

[john dolan]

No, just telling it like it is.

Incidentally, why doesn't AVI advertise in magazines or provide sample products for review like every other manufacturer under the sun? Why do they positively discourage comparisons and prefer that people buy their products unheard? Why do they encourage their forum/cult members to spread the word on forums by fairly obvious shilling - though I note that is down to this forum alone now, since all others have forbidden this devious practice.

Could it be that there is something about them that (God forbid) is less than perfect, and, as someone dared to express, there are active brands that are better, such as Genelec?

http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?22286-AVI-Nuetron-5

 

[john dolan]

Maybe they made this new speaker 50 watts because they know some like the sound of clipping.

 

[Ajani]

Why don't you ask on the AVI forum rather than here? There's been enough shilling here for the year, don't you agree, and enough argument.

Let it go, no point in deliberately fanning the flames.

That seems rather unfair IMO. Just as we are allowed to poke fun at AVI in this thread, AVI fans should be equally free to discuss the actual performance of the ADM5s here. This is a thread about the ADM5 afterall.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Ajani, is there anyone who doesn't own AVIs asking the questions, except for DM? It's the normal stuff, rehashed.

I suggested leaving this for a while to lt tempers cool, on both forums by the way, but it seems the free publicity is more important. Also, as Ashley is a regular contributor to the other forum - he owns it, and there are many (well, probably a few hundred) AVI owners on it, it would seem to be the obvious place to get questions by AVI owners answered.

 

[Alec]

Ajani, is there anyone who doesn't own AVIs asking the questions, except for DM? It's the normal stuff, rehashed.

I suggested leaving this for a while to lt tempers cool, on both forums by the way, but it seems the free publicity is more important. Also, as Ashley is a regular contributor to the other forum - he owns it, and there are many (well, probably a few hundred) AVI owners on it, it would seem to be the obvious place to get questions by AVI owners answered.

Heh, you're beginning to sound like him. Maybe you've spent too much time there.

EDITED for spelling.

 

[Ajani]

Ajani, is there anyone who doesn't own AVIs asking the questions, except for DM? It's the normal stuff, rehashed.

I suggested leaving this for a while to lt tempers cool, on both forums by the way, but it seems the free publicity is more important. Also, as Ashley is a regular contributor to the other forum - he owns it, and there are many (well, probably a few hundred) AVI owners on it, it would seem to be the obvious place to get questions by AVI owners answered.

Fair enough. I think where we disagree is that I don't really see a need for this thread to cool off. IMO, threads like this will either:

A) Cause AVI to gain some new customers based on the "controversy" surrounding the brand.

and/or

B) Cause AVI to lose some potential customers based on the "controversy" surrounding the brand.

I'm fine with either. If they gain some customers - fine, they clearly make decent products. If they lose some potential customers - also fine, since they deserve it for annoying so many people with over-the-top claims and badmouthing competitors, mags and audiophiles in general.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Yup, I agree, Ajani, it's the transparent nature of some posts that can be annoying.

 

[Alec]

Sorry, dunno what I did there.