The new AVI ADM5 active loudspeakers.

[BigH]

I don't think someone in the market for high performance lifestyle audio products is going to have wood veneered boxes on their 'radar' no matter how good they are.

I much prefer veneers but the ADM 5s will available in Black and white finishes also.

 

[altruistic.lemon]

Now now, Max, there's a difference in between trying to understand the mindset of some members of this forum, not smearing at all. In fact, when attempting in a purely academic way to understand, I haven't really considered your case at all, because your chip has more to do with the treatment you think you got at the hands of WHF, and is therefore not germane to the issue. att1cus is more interesting, as he does follow the patterns some of us have identified.

By the way, don't be too put off by the religious cult aspect of things, Apple users were and are regularly accused of this, as are owners of various cars, operating systems, not to mention Goths etc. etc. People want to feel special, and want to feel different from the herd.

Note that none of this bears any relation to the speakers. I don't know of anyone in the debate who has criticised them, in fact most accept that AVI designs have a good reputation as does the designer and expect the speakers to be equally good. Actually, not many have heard them to be truthful.

I agree with Ashley, though, that this spying and reporting on forums should stop, as should the defamation of people on both forums, particularly as many aren't members of the other forum and cannot therefore reply.

Note: I've cut out the first few lines of Max's original post since they didn't apply.

Anyway, truce time?

 

[plastic penguin]

AVI state, clearly and often, that they are not interested in the traditional hi-fi separates market, with any of their products. The fanboys are not typical of their customers who, once again according to AVI, are in the main not remote interested in hi-fi values but want good quality music from modern, non hi-fi sources with the minimum of effort.

Without a good system, properly set up, 320mbs mp3 is indistinguishable from CD for most people, which leavea AVI clear to concentrate on a product that delivers music with clarity, presence and a remarkable control from speakers that are often far from optimally positioned.

For many coming to ADMs for the first time the presence and control that they exhibit, even when not optimally positioned is what is so convincing, that they do not have the last word in resolution or the refinement of the better passive speakers is beside the point.

I think you'll find that AVI (and their customers) regularly claim that their products exceed the quality of more traditional hi-fi by a massive margin.

They are on record stating that a pair of ADMs will out-perform £5K and even £10K hi-fi systems in all respects including resolution and refinement.

They don't qualify such statements in the context of non hi-fi sources or systems. They clearly - and frequently - claim absolute superiority of their products over traditional hi-fi (at any price/performance level) and won't tolerate any discussion on this matter.

Again, for what it is worth, I have heard a fair number of £5-£10k systems in peoples homes that would be quite easily outperformed by a pair of ADMs...

This is what I find disturbing. I don't give a monkeys if it's better than a £20k system. It's like me saying a brand new BMW 3 series is technically better than my Alfa. But it wouldn't give me half the fun? Same goes for my kit. It has taken me long time to get it to this point: It has a certain sound that I've not heard before. Your stategy may work with the gullible, but certainly doesn't cut any cloth with me.

If you're looking to impress that isn't the way to do it. Trying to alienate people? It's working.

 

[The_Lhc]

People want to feel special, and want to feel different from the herd.

So they join another herd. I've never understood that.

 

[johngw]

By the way, it seems there are those who think Genelec are better than the ADM 9s, which makes me wonder if there aren't more active brands that people might prefer to AVI were they able to do a comparison, which, of course, you can't.

It seems an increasing number of HiFi dealers stock active as well as passive speakers. As they should. Bartlett's HiFi in London for example stock and demo Adam, Dynaudio and AVI alongside Monitor Audio, Dali, Whaferdale, etc.

 

[BigH]

Remember, too, that the MD prefers to sell to people who haven't heard the speakers before. It's part of the "leap of faith"/ exclusive sect approach.

By the way, it seems there are those who think Genelec are better than the ADM 9s, which makes me wonder if there aren't more active brands that people might prefer to AVI were they able to do a comparison, which, of course, you can't.

Most actives are sold in pro music shops, so you can hear them although the demo facilities will often not be like a hifi shop. Most ADMs are sold direct from the factory thats why they are good value, most dealers will not want to stock because of the low profit margin.

 

[johngw]

I don't recall anyone in this thread posting anything offensive that's resulted in a need for it to be removed, registering under several usernames, or anything being pruned. Which other similarities to the AVI forum were you referring to?

Pots and kettles? I don't think so. Maybe you just don't like being made aware of the trough you are happy to drink from.

I don't see much in the way of discussion as much as snide and sarcastic remarks and derogatory p-ss taking, plenty of which directly or indirectly from the moderators themselves, and with Chebby dancing around them as if one day he wishes to be one himself. Very odd to see a supposedly a grown-up publication sponsor and support this.

The "clique" discussion is certainly a valid one but that's hardly a new phenomenon on internet forums.

 

[davedotco]

AVI state, clearly and often, that they are not interested in the traditional hi-fi separates market, with any of their products. The fanboys are not typical of their customers who, once again according to AVI, are in the main not remote interested in hi-fi values but want good quality music from modern, non hi-fi sources with the minimum of effort.

Without a good system, properly set up, 320mbs mp3 is indistinguishable from CD for most people, which leavea AVI clear to concentrate on a product that delivers music with clarity, presence and a remarkable control from speakers that are often far from optimally positioned.

For many coming to ADMs for the first time the presence and control that they exhibit, even when not optimally positioned is what is so convincing, that they do not have the last word in resolution or the refinement of the better passive speakers is beside the point.

I think you'll find that AVI (and their customers) regularly claim that their products exceed the quality of more traditional hi-fi by a massive margin.

They are on record stating that a pair of ADMs will out-perform £5K and even £10K hi-fi systems in all respects including resolution and refinement.

They don't qualify such statements in the context of non hi-fi sources or systems. They clearly - and frequently - claim absolute superiority of their products over traditional hi-fi (at any price/performance level) and won't tolerate any discussion on this matter.

Again, for what it is worth, I have heard a fair number of £5-£10k systems in peoples homes that would be quite easily outperformed by a pair of ADMs...

This is what I find disturbing. I don't give a monkeys if it's better than a £20k system. It's like me saying a brand new BMW 3 series is technically better than my Alfa. But it wouldn't give me half the fun? Same goes for my kit. It has taken me long time to get it to this point: It has a certain sound that I've not heard before. Your stategy may work with the gullible, but certainly doesn't cut any cloth with me.

If you're looking to impress that isn't the way to do it. Trying to alienate people? It's working.

What I find disturbing is your inability to read and understand english, then get on your high horse and verbaly abuse someome for something he has not said. You need to have a word with yourself.

If the rubbish in your post is typical of what AVI owners and adocates (I am neither by the way) have to put up with then it is little wonder that they respond in an agressive fashion.

 

[the record spot]

Most actives are sold in pro music shops, so you can hear them although the demo facilities will often not be like a hifi shop. Most ADMs are sold direct from the factory thats why they are good value, most dealers will not want to stock because of the low profit margin.

There a re a handful of dealers (who I assume are losing out given the buying price is the same as it is buying direct off AVI's site, so there is the opportunity to try side-by-side. That said, those dealers are few and far between, so the other option is to go down to somebody's house or to the factory. Handy if you are nearby, not so great if you're not, or don't want to go to someone else's home to hear them (it wouldn't be my thing, albeit the generosity of owners to demo the 9.1s is to be applauded).

Most pro audio shops sell a decent range - Red Dog in Edinburgh is very good and I've heard several pairs there in the past. The pro audio shops in London were also very good - one next to Regent Sound stood out from memory and where I first heard Genelec a few years ago now.

 

[John Duncan]

I don't see much in the way of discussion as much as snide and sarcastic remarks and derogatory p-ss taking, plenty of which directly or indirectly from the moderators themselves, and with Chebby dancing around them as if one day he wishes to be one himself. Very odd to see a supposedly a grown-up publication sponsor and support this.

Hello and welcome to the forum, johngw.

 

[John Duncan]

AVI state, clearly and often, that they are not interested in the traditional hi-fi separates market, with any of their products. The fanboys are not typical of their customers who, once again according to AVI, are in the main not remote interested in hi-fi values but want good quality music from modern, non hi-fi sources with the minimum of effort.

Without a good system, properly set up, 320mbs mp3 is indistinguishable from CD for most people, which leavea AVI clear to concentrate on a product that delivers music with clarity, presence and a remarkable control from speakers that are often far from optimally positioned.

For many coming to ADMs for the first time the presence and control that they exhibit, even when not optimally positioned is what is so convincing, that they do not have the last word in resolution or the refinement of the better passive speakers is beside the point.

I think you'll find that AVI (and their customers) regularly claim that their products exceed the quality of more traditional hi-fi by a massive margin.

They are on record stating that a pair of ADMs will out-perform £5K and even £10K hi-fi systems in all respects including resolution and refinement.

They don't qualify such statements in the context of non hi-fi sources or systems. They clearly - and frequently - claim absolute superiority of their products over traditional hi-fi (at any price/performance level) and won't tolerate any discussion on this matter.

Again, for what it is worth, I have heard a fair number of £5-£10k systems in peoples homes that would be quite easily outperformed by a pair of ADMs...

This is what I find disturbing. I don't give a monkeys if it's better than a £20k system. It's like me saying a brand new BMW 3 series is technically better than my Alfa. But it wouldn't give me half the fun? Same goes for my kit. It has taken me long time to get it to this point: It has a certain sound that I've not heard before. Your stategy may work with the gullible, but certainly doesn't cut any cloth with me.

If you're looking to impress that isn't the way to do it. Trying to alienate people? It's working.

What I find disturbing is your inability to read and understand english, then get on your high horse and verbaly abuse someome for something he has not said. You need to have a word with yourself.

If the rubbish in your post is typical of what AVI owners and adocates (I am neither by the way) have to put up with then it is little wonder that they respond in an agressive fashion.

Gentlemen, please...

 

[JMacMan]

They then seem to go through a stage of becomming fanboys over a particular brand or marketing term, and oddly seem very prepared to abdicate all further thought into critical aspects of HiFi reproduction, as the simple, easy to understand brand or marketing mantra, works for them, and they cling to it as an evangelist clings to his religous beliefs. Indeed, any further discourse to investigate or critique the brand or marketing term, is repelled with vehement, but often not very logical or factual argument.

JB

How would you characterise your feelings with regard to B&O? To me, you seem to fit the above description quite well.

Phileas: I think Chebby and Record Spot have both answered the question for me, however...

I like B&O a great deal, obviously, otherwise I wouldn't have bought it.

One of the things I like about it as a buying and living with experience, is that the company is exceptionally ethical and provides some of the most professional and best customer service I've ever experienced in a consumer purchase in my lifetime.

If you feel my talking about B&O on AVI's forums is fanboy like behaviour I would apologise - I've never been called a fanboy by either friend or acquaintance in my life, and I always endeavour to keep an open mind and see things from the other fellows point of view a well as my own, as well as being receptive and open to constructive criticism and new ideas when discussing anything with friends, be it online or in real life.

Where I've possibly pushed B&O perhaps a bit to hard over at AVI, is merely in response to the marketing juggernaut over there, where anything non AVI is patently a piece of rubbish that cannot possibly compare. I find such unjustified, insupportable conjecture and speculation, and the denigration of many fine companies and their products in the aid of drumming up business, unfair and unjust, and tend to respond accordingly.

Remember the humiliating and upsetting arguments/debates I had with AVI's chief spokesman over the merits of Class D? Particularly B&O's ICE power modules, which are patented and proprietary, and for which I produced factual evidence that showed their distortion measurements were up with the Class AB state of the art - despite claims to the opposite from AVI's spokesperson, and for which such measurements as I provided were peremptorily dismissed, and I was attacked for seemingly lacking the intelligence to understand said measurements, and besides, measurements don't tell the whole story, the sound is nowhere near as good as Class AB, etc, etc.

Now that AVI are finally using Class D - it's suddenly all good.....

As I say, I apologise If you feel my defence of B&O on AVI's forums is the actions of a fanboy - but do note, I've never said that they're the best brand or speaker Evaaahhh; I've never tried to sell them to people, or push them down peoples throats, and I don't denigrate AVI's products or anyone elses, nor do I tell AVI owners that they really wasted their money and should've bought B&O etc.

I'm not a B&O fanboy in my behaviour Phileas, but I do believe in fairness and justice, and will defend companies where I feel they are being patently and unfairly maligned.

JB

 

[chebby]

... and with Chebby dancing around them as if one day he wishes to be one himself.

I'd be no good as a mod.

I'd want to ban almost everyone and delete almost everything . It'd be a bloodbath and WHF? would have hardly anyone left here for it's advertisers to be in interested in.

JD and the other mods are far too lenient, the hours are crap and they get no payment for it.

I would ban on the grounds of the remotest hunch or vaguest suspicion that anyone seemed like a banned member trying to get back on here.

I'd be the 'Pol Pot' of moderators.

Given the power, i'd rip the whole bloody website down rather than let someone like Max come back to make just one more comment under yet another alias.

So you can discard any notion that I find the prospect of being a moderator appealling.

 

[John Duncan]

You are also **** at dancing, I've heard.

 

[BigH]

Most actives are sold in pro music shops, so you can hear them although the demo facilities will often not be like a hifi shop. Most ADMs are sold direct from the factory thats why they are good value, most dealers will not want to stock because of the low profit margin.

There a re a handful of dealers (who I assume are losing out given the buying price is the same as it is buying direct off AVI's site, so there is the opportunity to try side-by-side. That said, those dealers are few and far between, so the other option is to go down to somebody's house or to the factory. Handy if you are nearby, not so great if you're not, or don't want to go to someone else's home to hear them (it wouldn't be my thing, albeit the generosity of owners to demo the 9.1s is to be applauded).

Most pro audio shops sell a decent range - Red Dog in Edinburgh is very good and I've heard several pairs there in the past. The pro audio shops in London were also very good - one next to Regent Sound stood out from memory and where I first heard Genelec a few years ago now.

If you buy from AVI then you have 30 days to return if you don't like them, yes it will cost around £20 to send them back but thats not that much and is better than most returns policies.

As for trying different speakers at the same dealer I found it almost impossible to do that for certain brands in my area, try Epos, Kef, Dynaudio, Harbeth, Spendor and Totem for example, even big names like Kef are not stocked by many dealers.

 

[davedotco]

Sorry John.

I do get annoyed with people giving me a hard time for things that I have not said. I am happy to fight my corner when people disagree with what I have said but this, really.......

I joined this thread this morning and tried to give a view an what I thought was the rational behind the new ADM.

I made no specific comment about it's SQ, how could I, and from my experience tried to explain where I thought it, and by extension the rest of the range, sat in the scheme of things.

 

[John Duncan]

Sorry John.

I do get annoyed with people giving me a hard time for things that I have not said. I am happy to fight my corner when people disagree with what I have said but this, really.......

I joined this thread this morning and tried to give a view an what I thought was the rational behind the new ADM.

I made no specific comment about it's SQ, how could I, and from my experience tried to explain where I thought it, and by extension the rest of the range, sat in the scheme of things.

Understood, it was just a suggestion to both of you to try not to get into a fight

 

[drummerman]

I just had a look over at HDD forum and saw a couple of remarks about what's being said over here.

Now I did say I dont like censorship but in fairness to AVI/Ashley J., he almost immediately removed these posts and expressed his concern. - At least its censorship applied evenly.

I personally look forward to anybody's impression of something they have heard, even more so if it is put into a well balanced write-up, perhaps even comparing other products, for good or bad. That includes AVI products.

regards

 

[Xanderzdad]

I personally look forward to anybody's impression of something they have heard, even more so if it is put into a well balanced write-up, perhaps even comparing other products, for good or bad. That includes AVI products.

regards

Agreed

 

[altruistic.lemon]

I just had a look over at HDD forum and saw a couple of remarks about what's being said over here.

Now I did say I dont like censorship but in fairness to AVI/Ashley J., he almost immediately removed these posts and expressed his concern. - At least its censorship applied evenly.

I too noticed that, and think, as said before, it is now time to let this go.

 

[shropshire lad]

I just had a look over at HDD forum and saw a couple of remarks about what's being said over here.

Now I did say I dont like censorship but in fairness to AVI/Ashley J., he almost immediately removed these posts and expressed his concern. - At least its censorship applied evenly.

I too noticed that, and think, as said before, it is now time to let this go.

Until next week .

 

[Alec]

I just had a look over at HDD forum and saw a couple of remarks about what's being said over here.

Now I did say I dont like censorship but in fairness to AVI/Ashley J., he almost immediately removed these posts and expressed his concern. - At least its censorship applied evenly.

I personally look forward to anybody's impression of something they have heard, even more so if it is put into a well balanced write-up, perhaps even comparing other products, for good or bad. That includes AVI products.

regards

Did you notice the bit where he copied and pasted a complimentary post about the new speakers from here? Did you notice the bit where he prevented someone posting a perfectly innocuous response to a post in which they were specifically addressed? Did you notice the bit where you were admonished and all of a sudden willingly discarded any testicular fortitude you may have had before?

I noticed all of the above.

 

[nara]

Despite all this bad-mouthing of AVI and their customers it seems a majority of posts in this thread are not from the so-called fanboys but the anti-AVI brigade, who spend an awful lot of time discussing AVI products/customers and making juvenile comments regarding the same.

The application of simple arithmetic would lead any neutral observer to the same conclusion.

 

[John Duncan]

Despite all this bad-mouthing of AVI and their customers it seems a majority of posts in this thread are not from the so-called fanboys but the anti-AVI brigade, who spend an awful lot of time discussing AVI products/customers and making juvenile comments regarding the same.

The application of simple arithmetic would lead any neutral observer to the same conclusion.

Again with the science...

 

[nara]

Despite all this bad-mouthing of AVI and their customers it seems a majority of posts in this thread are not from the so-called fanboys but the anti-AVI brigade, who spend an awful lot of time discussing AVI products/customers and making juvenile comments regarding the same.

The application of simple arithmetic would lead any neutral observer to the same conclusion.

Again with the science...

Ye cannae change the laws of Physics Cap'n. :cheers: