The Musical Fidelity AMS 35i thread

[CnoEvil]

Quite frankly, I'm disgusted... we're here sweating over the mans HiFi dilemma and he's out partying! what's going on!!!

The world's gone mad! golf... parties!

We'll only know more tonight if he's had a a few jars, and needs another "jimmy riddle." :wall:

 

[iceman16]

You're just a sign away.. to be a member...:cheer:

 

[Macspur]

Quite frankly, I'm disgusted... we're here sweating over the mans HiFi dilemma and he's out partying! what's going on!!!

The world's gone mad! golf... parties!

We'll only know more tonight if he's had a a few jars, and needs another "jimmy riddle." :wall:

 

[matt49]

Ah OK... I have read that the Harbeths do, despite their minimum amp requirement of 25W, do respond better, to the more you can drive them with up to 150W.

I must admit, my own experience, going from the Sugden to the 100W Accuphase, would bare this out and it's not all about the ability to play the music loud, but the control the amp has over the loudspeaker.

Mac,

I think your point about control over the speaker may be right on the money. I'd love to hear a comparative test of Class A and good Class A/B (Accuphase, Electrocompaniet etc) amps with the Harbeths. If only we could arrange a big 'bake-off'.

Matt

 

[matt49]

Have the new Devialets arrived yet? It would seem logical to give the Devialet - Harbeth combo another try. Easy to drive as the Harbeth are, you could get away with the 110 (unless you need a phono stage or a sub-out). I think 2 x 110 W into 6 Ohm should be plenty to get a grip on them. That's a streamer - DAC - amp combo for €5000 (don't know the £-price)! And you'd have a DSP to tame the trebble if necessary.

Having said that, I personnaly preferred the Monitor 30 over the SHL5 (haven't heard the 30.1 yet). So a 35i - 30.1 combo (as Mac suggests) may also be worth an audition -- the 30.1 has no super tweeter, which here may be an advantage.

Then again, maybe after the concert, you'll have permanent ear damage, and it won't matter a yot! You certainly shouldn't decide till next week; might save you a lot of money! :O

Cheers, Doc!

Having been wowed by the D-Premier/Harbeth combo, I'm very keen to hear the new Devialets. KJWestone have the 110 already, and the 170 should arrive next week. The 110 and 170 both look like a great package.

Interesting to hear your views about the Monitor 30s. Certainly worth a demo.

I'll be taking ear-plugs to the Springsteen gig on Sunday.

Matt

 

[matt49]

As others have said, don't give up.

No chance of that.

I'm a perfectionist by nature and profession, and every day is a new day.

- How are the speakers positioned / room acoustics.....any problems there?

I've played around with positioning: it doesn't seem to make much difference. The Harbeths are very tolerant. As for acoustics, yes, there may be a problem, but as I said in an earlier post, the splashy treble went away when I swapped in a Naim amp. (And like you, I don't like Naim amps!)

- What are the speaker stands like?

Low, solid, speakers attached with a few blobs of blutak

- Is the amp plugged directly into the wall?

Check

- What cables are you using?

Various good Chord interconnects and cables: all detailed in my sig below.

Matt

 

[matt49]

Hi Matt

Can you find a dealer who would let you audition those speakers with a Lavardin (IS Reference or IT) amplifier. Apparently the Harbeth/Lavardin match is excellent.

I'm not speaking from experience I'm afraid but just passing information on.

Just a thought...

Hi Pete,

Good thought. I did audition the Lavardin IT with the Harbeths: very good, but later the same day I heard Mac's Accuphase E350 with the Harbeths, and Mac's system was sweeter by some distance.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[matt49]

Matt.. where you from?.. If you're bound to south wales (swansea) you're more than welcome to pop in and listen what "might be missin"...I love to go to old Cno's and Mac's place soon..

Cheers, Iceman!

I'm in west London, but also often near Stroud in Gloucestershire, so not far from you. It'd be great to hook up.

Mac very kindly invited me over for an afternoon a few weeks ago. He has a beautiful system.

As for Cno, I'm sure once his dry rot is sorted he'll invite us all over for a party.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[Macspur]

Ah OK... I have read that the Harbeths do, despite their minimum amp requirement of 25W, do respond better, to the more you can drive them with up to 150W.

I must admit, my own experience, going from the Sugden to the 100W Accuphase, would bare this out and it's not all about the ability to play the music loud, but the control the amp has over the loudspeaker.

Mac,

I think your point about control over the speaker may be right on the money. I'd love to hear a comparative test of Class A and good Class A/B (Accuphase, Electrocompaniet etc) amps with the Harbeths. If only we could arrange a big 'bake-off'.

Matt

Would be cool...

Mike and Caroline at audio destination would certainly be willing to let you home demo Electrocompaniet amps

http://www.audiodestination.co.uk/

With due respect to other dealers, they really are the nicest of people to deal with.

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

Various good Chord interconnects and cables: all detailed in my sig below.

Matt

I don't like Chord cables, especially the Silver coated ones. I see Audio Emotion has second hand Linn Silver I/Cs (all copper), which they might lend you. For S/C, I like Cardas, Vertere, Telurium Q, Linn K20 (very cheap from ebay) and Atlas. Also, due to the feedback of Acalex, Iceman and Mac.....Siltech and MIT.

IMO. If a system already has a very clean treble (eg. Super Tweeters), Silver coated cables can push it over the edge. Given how close the system is to being wonderful, I suspect it could all fall into place with the right tweek / source.

 

[matt49]

I don't like Chord cables, especially the Silver coated ones. I see Audio Emotion has second hand Linn Silver I/Cs (all copper), which they might lend you. For S/C, I like Cardas, Vertere, Telurium Q, Linn K20 (very cheap from ebay) and Atlas. Also, due to the feedback of Acalex, Iceman and Mac.....Siltech and MIT.

IMO. If a system already has a very clean treble (eg. Super Tweeters), Silver coated cables can push it over the edge. Given how close the system is to being wonderful, I suspect it could all fall into place with the right tweek / source.

The Chord Co S/Cs I'm using are the same as Mac uses.

I've tried two different sets of cables and interconnects, the Chord stuff and some (good quality) plain vanilla copper stuff: same result. But thanks for the suggestion.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[Electro]

Ah OK... I have read that the Harbeths do, despite their minimum amp requirement of 25W, do respond better, to the more you can drive them with up to 150W.

I must admit, my own experience, going from the Sugden to the 100W Accuphase, would bare this out and it's not all about the ability to play the music loud, but the control the amp has over the loudspeaker.

Mac,

I think your point about control over the speaker may be right on the money. I'd love to hear a comparative test of Class A and good Class A/B (Accuphase, Electrocompaniet etc) amps with the Harbeths. If only we could arrange a big 'bake-off'.

Matt

Would be cool...

Mike and Caroline at audio destination would certainly be willing to let you home demo Electrocompaniet amps

http://www.audiodestination.co.uk/

With due respect to other dealers, they really are the nicest of people to deal with.

Mac

Good call Mac .

I should have recommended Mike and Caroline at Audiodestination for a home demo of Electrocompaniet amps after Matts disappointment with the demo at NSS, they are really the most friendly and helpful people .

They might even be able to supply an EMC1up to eliminate any questions about the source 😉

 

[CnoEvil]

The Chord Co S/Cs I'm using are the same as Mac uses.

I've tried two different sets of cables and interconnects, the Chord stuff and some (good quality) plain vanilla copper stuff: same result. But thanks for the suggestion.

:cheers:

Matt

Fair enough....it has to be something you feel comfortable experimenting with.

....though it is interesting to note that a lot of the people with this sort of kit on here, pay close attention to the cabling......but since we are all Audiophools, it's probably best not to pay any heed. 😉

 

[matt49]

Fair enough....it has to be something you feel comfortable experimenting with.

....though it is interesting to note that a lot of the people with this sort of kit on here, pay close attention to the cabling......but since we are all Audiophools, it's probably best not to pay any heed. 😉

i'll be more than happy to phool about with cables etc ... once I've got a system that works for me.

Matt

 

[CnoEvil]

Fair enough....it has to be something you feel comfortable experimenting with.

....though it is interesting to note that a lot of the people with this sort of kit on here, pay close attention to the cabling......but since we are all Audiophools, it's probably best not to pay any heed. 😉

i'll be more than happy to phool about with cables etc ... once I've got a system that works for me.

Matt

It isn't easy. Sometimes one hits on the right combination quite quickly, and sometimes it takes a lot of effing about......I've heard the Kef Refs sounding bright, forward and horrible.

What is the best source + speaker + amp that you've heard so far?

 

[matt49]

It isn't easy. Sometimes one hits on the right combination quite quickly, and sometimes it takes a lot of effing about......

I'm quite enjoying all the effing about actually. And though part of me wants to get the system sorted, another part of be is urging caution. I'll get there sooner or later. But for this amount of money, it'll need to be right.

What is the best source + speaker + amp that you've heard so far?

I very much liked Mac's system.

Probably the best two systems I've heard at dealers have been:

Devialet D-Premier + Harbeth Super HL5s

AMS35i + PMC Fact 8s

In each case they were using high-end CDPs: I have the details somewhere, but not on this iThing.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[Macspur]

It's good you're still enjoying yourself Matt... it's all too easy to get bogged down and loose focus when listening to a lot of different pieces of kit.

Just to recap; this week you will be contacting AE re an extension with the MF... try and cadg some different speakers and get hold of the new devialet?

Mac

 

[matt49]

It's good you're still enjoying yourself Matt... it's all too easy to get bogged down and loose focus when listening to a lot of different pieces of kit.

Just to recap; this week you will be contacting AE re an extension with the MF... try and cadg some different speakers and get hold of the new devialet?

Mac

Mac,

Your memory is impeccable: that is indeed the plan.

As I write this I'm listening to the headphone stage in the Naim V-1 DAC. It's a Class A single-ended headphone amp, and it sounds ravishing. Not at all like the usual lean and bouncy Naim sound. Airy, detailed, transparent, smooth. A hidden gem, I think.

Matt

 

[matt49]

So the AMS35i is staying for a couple more days, as are the Super HL5s, though I need to ring around tomorrow morning to get in some other speakers for comparison. Any thoughts? PMC, Proac, and Neat are within easy reach. I'm wondering about the Neat Ultimatum XLSs.

As for the sibilance and splashy treble, it hasn't gone away. This afternoon I swapped a couple of things in and out, to see if it would go.

First, I thought I'd get rid of the modded Sonos ZP90, so I ran the Naim DAC V-1 from a PC via asynchronous USB. (This is from a laptop with a solid-state drive, which takes the possibility of mechanical noise out of the equation.) Using the source selector on the DAC, I could toggle between the PC via USB and Sonos via S/PDIF. There was virtually no discernible difference in SQ though. Perhaps I could just fit a cigarette paper between the two, with the Sonos having a tad more depth and clarity.

Next, I messed around with a couple more amps. Using the preamp section in the DAC V-1, I swapped in a Cyrus X Power (from my study) and the Class D MF M1PWR (which I have on trial for my dining room). (I know Cno will be chuffed with this as he's a big fan of both Cyrus and Class D.) Needless to say, both were miles behind the AMS35i in terms of overall SQ. And neither got rid of the problem. Perhaps the little MF did have a touch less sibilance, but to be frank you'd rather have the AMS35i with a ton of sibilance than the M1PWR with none at all.

Conclusions? Hard to say, but I'd suggest the following tentatively:

1. the Sonos ZP90 isn't at fault

2. nor is (probably) the AMS35i

3. perhaps the Harbeths just aren't happy in my room

4. perhaps I'm obsessing about a small problem

5. perhaps a lot of the recordings I listen too have loads of sibilance in them

6. er, that's it.

Interested to hear your thoughts.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[CnoEvil]

The people who have had success with this amp have all had something in common - Electro EMC-1UP, a Linn DS or a good TT. Says a lot really.

I would worry that any of the speakers you have mentioned would pass on the problem as well (maybe even more so).

 

[Supreme]

Hi Matt

When you’re investing this kind of money into hi-fi you need to get equipment that you are absolutely happy with! The little nagging feelings of things not being quite right won't go away and it would be barmy to think that all the recordings you have tried have loads of sibilance in them.

I haven't heard the AMS35i or the Harbeths but I would hazard a guess that it has to be the synergy between them and your room acoustics that is causing the problems. I have no experience of hi-fi at the price level you are looking at so really can’t make any recommendations other than don’t settle for anything less than a system that puts a massive smile on your face every time you put on your tunes.

Good luck!

 

[Macspur]

Hmmm, this is a bit of a puzzler. As I mentioned, when I tried this combo I never experienced this problem... unlikely that all your recordings are suffering from sibilance.

Have you any idea what in your room may be causing the reaction?

Would there be any chance of borrowing one of the sources that Cno mentioned, even if it were only to rule that area out as the problem.

Will you be able to home demo the new Devialet when it comes in, or even the D-Premier and see if you still

hear the splashyness.

Mac

 

[matt49]

Hi Matt

When you’re investing this kind of money into hi-fi you need to get equipment that you are absolutely happy with! The little nagging feelings of things not being quite right won't go away and it would be barmy to think that all the recordings you have tried have loads of sibilance in them.

I haven't heard the AMS35i or the Harbeths but I would hazard a guess that it has to be the synergy between them and your room acoustics that is causing the problems. I have no experience of hi-fi at the price level you are looking at so really can’t make any recommendations other than don’t settle for anything less than a system that puts a massive smile on your face every time you put on your tunes.

Good luck!

Cheers, Pete, and thanks for the encouragement.

It did occur to me that the acoustics might be a problem. I've never heard of bad acoustics causing this sort of effect, but that might just be my inexperience. And as you say, it may be a synergy thing, though Cno and Mac, who are old hands at this, clearly don't think so.

"The struggle continues, victory is certain!"

Matt

 

[matt49]

Hmmm, this is a bit of a puzzler. As I mentioned, when I tried this combo I never experienced this problem... unlikely that all your recordings are suffering from sibilance.

Have you any idea what in your room may be causing the reaction?

Would there be any chance of borrowing one of the sources that Cno mentioned, even if it were only to rule that area out as the problem.

Will you be able to home demo the new Devialet when it comes in, or even the D-Premier and see if you still

hear the splashyness.

Mac

Mac,

I think you're right. I'm going to have to cadge a Linn DS or similar.

My local dealer is due to get the new Devialets in a week or so. I may be able to demo them at KJWestone sooner. I think Trevor will also have them very soon. I'm sure one of the dealers will let me try them at home.

Cheers!

Matt

 

[matt49]

This morning, when I dropped off some kit I was borrowing from my local dealer, we ran a little comparison in his demo room.

Using the AMS35i into PMC Fact 8s, we ran two sources in parallel:

1. MF AMSCD (connected to the amp through balanced XLR interconnects)

2. laptop running iTunes via asynch USB into Naim DAC V-1 (RCA interconnects)

I played the same music from both sources (ALAC CD rips in the case of the laptop), so was able to use the amp source select buttons to switch instantaneously between the two.

Switching sources meant adjusting for the increased gain of the AMSCD (which apparently is an effect of the fully balanced pathway in the AMS35i). The result of increasing the volume of the Naim to match the AMSCD is that you get a tiny fraction more noise with the Naim DAC. This was on the margins of audibility. What I found more audible was just the general transparency of the AMSCD, plus a bit more space in the music. It wasn't a huge difference though. Overall the sonic character of the two systems was very similar: both had the same detail, fluidity and dynamics from the AMS35i and the punch and super-clean bass from the Fact 8s. There was no disturbing sibilance in either system: the top end was bright, yes, but in no sense unruly.

Any thoughts?

Matt