The Musical Fidelity AMS 35i thread

[CnoEvil]

Anyway, the following -- admittedly very provisional -- thoughts are more analytical than enthusiastic.

No doubt both the amp and speakers are excellent, indeed outstanding. My feeling is that the synergy is good too, though it may not be perfect. I may decide to stick with the AMS35i and find a better speaker match, or stick with the Harbeths and do likewise. There’s a way to go yet.

One consistent theme is that part of the upper middle range is rather forward. I suspect this may be the Harbeths. They do vocals brilliantly, like no other speaker I’ve heard. I did a couple of spins of Allegri's Miserere (Tallis Scholars, Gimell): transcendently beautiful, airy, pure, and with such a sense of the space where it was recorded. But there’s a part of the upper vocal range that’s too prominent.

Second criticism: slightly mucky top end and transients. I suspect this is down to the source, although it might be a function of room acoustics. But probably the former, so not to be blamed on the amp and speakers. I might try to cadge a decent DAC from my local dealer on Friday, since my modded MDAC won't be back till Tuesday. (And by then I'll probably still be half deaf anyway, as we're seeing Springsteen on Sunday.)

Matt

Matt, I was worried that exactly this would happen, and is the reason that I mentioned the quality of the source.

The 35i may have a very musical nature, but it is very revealing, and along with the Harbeths, will shine a light on the quality and tonal nature of the front end......and dare I say it, cables.

Personally, I wouldn't come to any conclusions until I was able to slot in something of a similar quality eg. a Majik DS or Electro CDP (like Mac's)......in fact, I would be encouraged that it sounded as good as it did, given what you used.

As a system heads towards highend, the source (imo) becomes absolutely crucial.....you can easily end up listening to the weaknesses, rather than the strengths of the system.

The "curse" of a really good set up, is that everything has to remain in balance.......and it's possible that you may even need to set your sights higher than the MDAC (depending on how good the modded one is).

IMO. Cables, including power cables, are also something to experiment with......and I don't expect anyone to take my word for the beneficial effect they may have.

 

[Macspur]

I echo Cno's comments...

As soon as I read your thoughts on some forwardness I said to myself "it must be the source". I would be surprised if it were the Harbeths.

Cables are important, but something to be addressed once you are clear in your mind which of the main components you want to settle on.

Looking forward to the next report.

Mac

 

[iceman16]

Hi Matt

I agree with Cno and Mac that you need to try a different source and cables. In my experience, the EMC 1UP is a perfect match for the AMS35i. Each share the same level of performance and build quality. The AMS will reveal the fluid, detailed and warmish analog sound of the EMC 1UP. As for cables, steer clear of silver or silver plated ones.

 

[matt49]

Didn't think I was doing this properly, did you? :twisted:

Well, I did a bit of cadging this afternoon (a Naim V-1 DAC) and brought some cables down from my study system. Things are working much better. All the top-end muck I was hearing yesterday has gone. Clarity is much improved. The system is now revealing what it should reveal: the music. Nice. I'll report back at greater length later.

BTW the problem was almost certainly the Arcam Sonlink (though cables have played a role too). And I'm minded to point the finger of suspicion at the Sonlink's cheapo PSU especially.

Full details of the system, cables and all, will be on the 'your system' thread shortly (see the link in my sig).

:cheers:

Matt

 

[matt49]

Well, things haven't gone entirely as I expected today. This is a hugely impressive and likeable system, and in pretty much every respect it does what I want. But ...

Overall the presentation is beautifully liquid and tactile. There's an immense amount of detail, and most important of all it's lifelike detail. Separation of instruments is outstanding, both in terms of their intrinsic timbre and tone and in terms of their left/right and front/back placement. Listening to opera is a joy: a huge soundstage, voices all quite distinct, and above all a dramatic sense of being there.

Now for a variant on the 'my wife/girlfriend walked into the room and asked ...' cliche. Vocals are, of course, a forte of the Harbeths. Well, my dog adores people, especially strangers. He's the most gregarious hound I've ever met. I've noticed that he keeps sitting up and looking at the speakers. I reckon he's hearing new people coming into the room.

Now for the 'but'. Of all the amp/speakers combos I've heard, the one that this has most in common with is the Accuphase E560 plus Super HL5s. I described the sound of that system as 'golden'. But it was also slightly splashy at the top end, and I'm getting the same feeling with the AMS35i/Super HL5 system. It's most obvious with metal percusion, but there's also quite a lot of sibilance on vocals and a hint of shrillness in the top notes of brass instruments. It's the same story with a wide range of recordings of different genres and quality.

The most obvious culprit is source. In pretty much every other respect, the V-1 DAC/AMS35i/Super HL5 combo sounds terrific, and as good as, if not better than I’ve heard the Super HL5s sound in any other system (with the exception of the Devialet D-Premier).

I’ve listened to the V-1 DAC through its (single-ended Class A) headphone stage, and it sounded superb (using Grado SR325is). A clear step up from the excellent headphone stage in the Audiolab MDAC. And there was no sibilance at all. And I've tried swapping in the NAP 100, i.e. V-1 DAC > NAP 100 > Super HL5s. In terms of overall SQ there’s no comparison between the V1-DAC/AMS35i and V-1 DAC/NAP 100, as you’d expect. (I could list the many ways in which the NAP 100 is miles behind the AMS35i, but there wouldn’t be much point.) But the NAP 100 was superior in this one respect: no splashy top end, no sibilance.

So I suspect the fault lies in the synergy between the amp and speakers. On their own, both amp and speakers are fantastic. So I'm in a bit of a quandary. Any thoughts?

:?

Matt

 

[iceman16]

Matt...I've been in your situation some time ago. It realy takes time to get the sound you like. As I've mentioned before, your source plays an important role or part to get the most of the AMS 35i. IME the AMS 35i is the best integrated amp I've heard at this price, But you should'nt stop there! Given you liked the Harbeths that does'nt mean it will work best with the AMS. :dance:

 

[matt49]

Matt...I've been in your situation some time ago. It realy takes time to get the sound you like. As I've mentioned before, your source plays an important role or part to get the most of the AMS 35i. IME the AMS 35i is the best integrated amp I've heard at this price, But you should'nt stop there! Given you liked the Harbeths that does'nt mean it will work best with the AMS. :dance:

Cheers, Iceman, and thanks for the encouragement!

I really rate both the AMS35i and the Harbeths, but they're not gelling as I'd hoped they would. Like you, I haven't heard a better integrated amp at this price. I really liked the AMS35i with the PMC Fact 8s. The other really great system I've heard was the Harbeths with the Devialet D-Premier.

Next week I have to decide between two options: either keep the second-hand AMS35i and look for some other speakers, or return the AMS35i and continue to explore. Given how cheap thissecond-hand unit is, it's a tricky choice. On the other hand, I know I ought not to be seduced by the prospect of a bargain.

I accept what you (and Cno and Mac) have said about the source. I think the V-1 DAC should be good enough. I'll wager it's as good as the DACs in most high-end CDPs or in the Linn DS range. I think next week I'll take my modded MDAC along to my local MF dealer and see how it compares to one of his Audio Research CDPs going into the AMS35i.

Matt

 

[Macspur]

Well Matt, if you've experienced the same problems with both E560+SHL5 and AMS+SHL5 unfortunately, it looks like it may be the speakers! I must say, I never experienced this myself when I heard the AMS+SHL5 combo, but of course we won't have listened to the same recordings.

Did you hear the same splashyness with the old KEFS?

Would it be possible to loan some 30.1's or some other brand from Trevor?

Mac

 

[matt49]

Well Matt, if you've experienced the same problems with both E560+SHL5 and AMS+SHL5 unfortunately, it looks like it's the speakers!

It could be that. But the splashiness went away when I used the Naim NAP 100, so I'm thinking that maybe I just don't like 30-watt Class A amps in combination with the Super HL5s.

Did you hear the same splashyness with the old KEFS?

No, but then they're such dull speakers that they don't have the top end to get splashy with, if you see what I mean.

Would it be possible to loan some 30.1's or some other brand from Trevor?

Mac

Yes, he does have a demo pair, and I could do that, assuming I can persuade the guys at Audio Emotion to let me hang on to the AMS35i for another few days. I'll be speaking to them on Monday morning in any case.

Cheers,

Matt

 

[Macspur]

Well Matt, if you've experienced the same problems with both E560+SHL5 and AMS+SHL5 unfortunately, it looks like it's the speakers!

It could be that. But the splashiness went away when I used the Naim NAP 100, so I'm thinking that maybe I just don't like 30-watt Class A amps in combination with the Super HL5s.

Did you hear the same splashyness with the old KEFS?

No, but then they're such dull speakers that they don't have the top end to get splashy with, if you see what I mean.

Would it be possible to loan some 30.1's or some other brand from Trevor?

Mac

Yes, he does have a demo pair, and I could do that, assuming I can persuade the guys at Audio Emotion to let me hang on to the AMS35i for another few days. I'll be speaking to them on Monday morning in any case.

Cheers,

Matt

Ah OK... I have read that the Harbeths do, despite their minimum amp requirement of 25W, do respond better, to the more you can drive them with up to 150W.

I must admit, my own experience, going from the Sugden to the 100W Accuphase, would bare this out and it's not all about the ability to play the music loud, but the control the amp has over the loudspeaker.

Saying all that, I'm not sure this would explain the top end problems you are having though.

Calling Cno!

Mac

 

[DocG]

Have the new Devialets arrived yet? It would seem logical to give the Devialet - Harbeth combo another try. Easy to drive as the Harbeth are, you could get away with the 110 (unless you need a phono stage or a sub-out). I think 2 x 110 W into 6 Ohm should be plenty to get a grip on them. That's a streamer - DAC - amp combo for €5000 (don't know the £-price)! And you'd have a DSP to tame the trebble if necessary.

Having said that, I personnaly preferred the Monitor 30 over the SHL5 (haven't heard the 30.1 yet). So a 35i - 30.1 combo (as Mac suggests) may also be worth an audition -- the 30.1 has no super tweeter, which here may be an advantage.

Then again, maybe after the concert, you'll have permanent ear damage, and it won't matter a yot! You certainly shouldn't decide till next week; might save you a lot of money! :O

 

[Supreme]

Hi Matt

Can you find a dealer who would let you audition those speakers with a Lavardin (IS Reference or IT) amplifier. Apparently the Harbeth/Lavardin match is excellent.

I'm not speaking from experience I'm afraid but just passing information on.

Just a thought...

 

[CnoEvil]

Calling Cno!

Mac

Sorry, I've been at the Irish Open Golf....stayed down last night, was at Carton House today, and only just back.

You won't know for definite until you try a really good source......FWIW. I don't like Naim, and (as you know) much prefer the Linn DS.

As others have said, don't give up.

- How are the speakers positioned / room acoustics.....any problems there?

- What are the speaker stands like?

- Is the amp plugged directly into the wall?

- What cables are you using?

- Try different Harbeths

This is worth teasing out to its conclusion by eliminating all possible causes. The 35i has a treble that is very clean, clear, detailed and revealing, like a layer of smog and grit have been removed...but there should be no shrillness or sibilance.

 

[Macspur]

Calling Cno!

Mac

Sorry, I've been at the Irish Open Golf....stayed down last night and was at Carton House today, and only just back.

You won't know for definite until you try a really good source......FWIW. I don't like Naim, and (as you know) much prefer the Linn DS.

As others have said, don't give up.

- How are the speakers positioned / room acoustics.....any problems there?

- What are the speaker stands like?

- Is the amp plugged directly into the wall?

- What cables are you using?

- Try different Harbeths

This is worth teasing out to its conclusion by eliminating all possible causes. The 35i has a treble that is very clean, clear, detailed and revealing, like a layer of smog and grit have been removed...but there should be no shrillness or sibilance.

Golf!!! don't you know a man's trying to sort out his HiFi here?

Spot on with the Harbs treble Cno

Matt, meant to say, I think AE will be fine with you keeping the AMS for another few days.

Don't get disheartened and like Doc G said, there's always the Divialet to try.

Mac

 

[CnoEvil]

Golf!!! don't you know a man's trying to sort out his HiFi here?

Mac

I know, I know....it was a bit of a chore. Corporate hospitality, staying in a 5* hotel on Thursday, and then in the hospitality tent today, with all meals and drink covered; but it had to be done. I'd rather have been at work. :shifty:

 

[iceman16]

Matt.. where you from?.. If you're bound to south wales (swansea) you're more than welcome to pop in and listen what "might be missin"...I love to go to old Cno's and Mac's place soon..

 

[CnoEvil]

I love to go to old Cno's and Mac's place soon..

Open door policy at Cno's for 35 club members (part of the perks).....once the house is put back together.

 

[iceman16]

Sorry Cno.. not old.. I mean..experienced most with good hearing:clap:

 

[Macspur]

I love to go to old Cno's and Mac's place soon..

Open door policy at Cno's for 35 club members (part of the perks).....once the house is put back together.

Here too and Cno, hope Mrs Cno was enjoying the hospitality too and not left to cope with building site at home!

 

[CnoEvil]

Sorry Cno.. not old.. I mean..experienced most with good hearing:clap:

I can "do" OLD.

 

[Macspur]

Golf!!! don't you know a man's trying to sort out his HiFi here?

Mac

I know, I know....it was a bit of a chore. Corporate hospitality, staying in a 5* hotel on Thursday, and then in the hospitality tent today, with all meals and drink covered; but it had to be done. I'd rather have been at work. :shifty:

You cad!

 

[CnoEvil]

Here too and Cno, hope Mrs Cno was enjoying the hospitality too and not left to cope with building site at home!

Mrs Cno was due to go, but something came up at the last minute, so she unfortunately couldn't make it.

 

[matt49]

Gents,

loving reading your posts and would reply, but I'm at a party. (Just snuck off to the loo.) Will respond in detail tomorrow.

:cheers:

Matt

 

[CnoEvil]

Gents,

loving reading your posts and would reply, but I'm at a party. (Just snuck off to the loo.) Will respond in detail tomorrow.

:cheers:

Matt

I love the fact that you are probably on the Loo typing this....that's dedication.

 

[Macspur]

Gents,

loving reading your posts and would reply, but I'm at a party. (Just snuck off to the loo.) Will respond in detail tomorrow.

:cheers:

Matt

I love the fact that you are probably on the Loo typing this....that's dedication.

Quite frankly, I'm disgusted... we're here sweating over the mans HiFi dilemma and he's out partying! what's going on!!!

The world's gone mad! golf... parties!