The Minimonitor thread

[krolikgena]

And no comments about AE1 MKII SE.. does somebody have them at all on the forum??

 

[BigH]

No one have the Neat Petite SX?

 

[hoopsontoast]

Wide left feild choice, how about the Eclipse speakers?

http://www.eclipse-td.net/

http://www.whathifi.com/eclipse-td

Not heard them though. Should be good at soundstage, IME with full-range-drivers.

 

[DocG]

Wide left feild choice, how about the Eclipse speakers?

http://www.eclipse-td.net/

http://www.whathifi.com/eclipse-td

Not heard them though. Should be good at soundstage, IME with full-range-drivers.

They are lovely with voices and e.g. saxophone, or acoustic instruments in general. They don't do rock music properly, though, or electronic music. I guess because of the limited bass (specs state 35Hz - at -10 dB, mind you)... Just my opinion of course!

Not shure they fit the "minimonitor definition" anyway (W348 x H606 x D411on their short stands). :?

 

[hoopsontoast]

No, but the smaller ones may be.

Also they should fit into the mini-monitor category as they are designed for near/mid feild use so should work well in the typical rooms that mini-monitors get used in.

Bass from a mini monitor should be a secondary consideration IMO. Trying to get deep bass from a small box mucks up the rest of the frequency range IMO/IME.

 

[AEJim]

And no comments about AE1 MKII SE.. does somebody have them at all on the forum??

I do! I'm not sure this counts though. :

Actually I think the new WHF Ed has a pair (non-SE spec) unless he's moved on. Technically speaking they are now discontinued, though there may still be a few around at dealers as this was only recent.

 

[krolikgena]

And no comments about AE1 MKII SE.. does somebody have them at all on the forum??

I do! I'm not sure this counts though. :

Actually I think the new WHF Ed has a pair (non-SE spec) unless he's moved on. Technically speaking they are now discontinued, though there may still be a few around at dealers as this was only recent.

Can you tell why they were discontinued? and how they compare to the relatively new Reference 1?

 

[AEJim]

Can you tell why they were discontinued? and how they compare to the relatively new Reference 1?

Of course! The basic design of the AE1mkIII is well over 10 years old now and the SE spec was always intended as a limited run (we never did decide on a set figure) so it was always meant to be replaced by the new Reference series. We let it come to a natural end as new parts ran down rather than a strict cut-off. Many dealers will still have new stock because this was a decision we only took recently when it came time decide on ordering more machined baffles etc.

The Reference 1's have a slightly different character but are based on similar design principals - inert cabinet (through sandwich damping rather than additional mass as SE's had), short-signal path crossovers and aluminium drivers for minimal distortion. They share versions of the same tweeter though the Ref 1's have a "DXT" lens for dispersion adjustment and output smoothing (the lens is modelled specifically for that tweeter).

In terms of sound, the Ref 1's are able to take power far better and punch harder, the sandwich cabinet coupled with that DXT lens gives them quite a clean, dry character, there is very little overhang or cabinet noise which is very noticeable next to more conventionally constucted speakers. The SE's had a slightly airier top end (something the DTX lens diminishes) and a softer quality to the bass which may or may not be preferable depending on taste, both go down to around 40Hz before strong roll-off occurs. Overall the SE is probably the more suble and delicate sounding of the two while the Ref 1 is a bit more solid and powerful sounding to put it simply.

 

[alchemist 1]

Unfortunately it is hard to recommend a distance because rooms are different. The wall behind the speaker could be stud partition, plasterboard with a gap then brick/breeze block, solid brick, brick cavity, double brick, stone, breeze block etc etc. All these will have a different effect on a speaker/subwoofer's in room performance. The type of flooring can also affect things.

You could be talking inches or feet, regardless of where the port is situated.

What puzzles me B&W rec. a min of 500mm,but it's classed as a bookshelf speaker.

Other speaker manufactures seem guilty of the same description. :read:

 

[alchemist 1]

Spendor SA1 - Quite an unassuming sound, pretty neutral, nicely detailed, not greatly extended bass due to its small sealed cabinet, but quite a natural, even bass, if a little light compared to the rest of the group.

B&W PM1 - Beautifully open treble and amazingly detailed. Quite a lot of bass for such a small standmount with a small bass driver, but like all mini monitors, you're not going to get gig levels with bass heavy material. Lovely build and finish. They like a bit of space to work well in, despite being front ported.

PMC DB1 - One of the lighter (weight) models here, so it may not feel in the same quality as the likes f the LS50 or PM1. One of the livelier performers of the group that still sounds exciting at lower volumes. Can sound a little boxy in comparison to others in the group.

Kef LS50 - More akin to listening to headphones with their ability to stop/start. Great detail and projection. Bass isn't the deepest here, but what they do have is pretty solid. Like the PM1's, they do like a little bit of space to stretch their legs.

Acoustic Energy AE1 MKIII - I have heard the MkIII's but it was quite a while ago, so it would be unfair of me to comment. I did hear the Classic version more recently.

ATC SCM11 - Sounds a little restrained in the top end compared to some of the other models here, but they posses the largest bass driver of the group and would probably win out on SPL. Again, pretty neutral, with a nice even bass due to a sealed cabinet.

All of these models need capable amplification to get the best from them, the level of which varies depending on the model. The PM1's, LS50's, and DB1's have greater presence than the other speakers, which tend to lack a little in comparison at lower volumes.

Which of these give the warmer tonal presentation. ?

 

[alchemist 1]

Spendor SA1 - Quite an unassuming sound, pretty neutral, nicely detailed, not greatly extended bass due to its small sealed cabinet, but quite a natural, even bass, if a little light compared to the rest of the group.

B&W PM1 - Beautifully open treble and amazingly detailed. Quite a lot of bass for such a small standmount with a small bass driver, but like all mini monitors, you're not going to get gig levels with bass heavy material. Lovely build and finish. They like a bit of space to work well in, despite being front ported.

PMC DB1 - One of the lighter (weight) models here, so it may not feel in the same quality as the likes f the LS50 or PM1. One of the livelier performers of the group that still sounds exciting at lower volumes. Can sound a little boxy in comparison to others in the group.

Kef LS50 - More akin to listening to headphones with their ability to stop/start. Great detail and projection. Bass isn't the deepest here, but what they do have is pretty solid. Like the PM1's, they do like a little bit of space to stretch their legs.

Acoustic Energy AE1 MKIII - I have heard the MkIII's but it was quite a while ago, so it would be unfair of me to comment. I did hear the Classic version more recently.

ATC SCM11 - Sounds a little restrained in the top end compared to some of the other models here, but they posses the largest bass driver of the group and would probably win out on SPL. Again, pretty neutral, with a nice even bass due to a sealed cabinet.

All of these models need capable amplification to get the best from them, the level of which varies depending on the model. The PM1's, LS50's, and DB1's have greater presence than the other speakers, which tend to lack a little in comparison at lower volumes.

Presently owning my KEF LS 50's,[just].

Compairing the bass of the atc 11's, previously owned [still very good]

.

I would say the bass is definetly more prominent on the LS50's.

With a more weighty presentation.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Apologies - hard to keep track of threads with no thread subscription like other forums...

David, I have brick cavity walls, where the speakers will be less than 1 feet away, not near corners though, will the KEF LS50 and DB1is be alright in that situation, floor is wooden floorboards covered with carpet, room is 17 x11 feet.

It's always hard to predict an outcome, but I remember a place I worked where one large room was split by a single breeze block wall to make two demo rooms. This created a bit of a boomy sound, so much so that when I started working there we turned the room around so that the speakers were up against the solid outside wall rather than the breeze block wall because it was just production too much boom, which kills detail. Your situation might be different though.

Not being near the corners is a good thing. I'm guessing the LS50's will need the help of their outer bung in order to calm the bass down a little. The DB1i's might fare a little better as they produce less bass, and a transmission line opening doesn't act like a traditional port. As I say, hard to predict, so get a home loan if possible.

 

[Frank Harvey]

What puzzles me B&W rec. a min of 500mm,but it's classed as a bookshelf speaker.

Other speaker manufactures seem guilty of the same description. :read:

All standmount speakers are generally classed as bookshelf type.

 

[Frank Harvey]

Which of these give the warmer tonal presentation. ?

Define 'warmer'

Some will feel that warmer is just a nice full low end (more bass), others a fuller midrange. Others might feel that warmer means that the treble isn't too prominent which brings the bass and lower mid more to the fore, or even just a dull sounding speaker. Can a speaker sound warm and have a strong upper mid/lower HF presence?

I'd say it'd be between the DB1i, PM1, with the LS50 just a little behind. The PM1's have a strong bass despite their small driver, so will sound warm to some, while the DB1i has a warm midrange (to me), so despite its brighter treble it is an easy listen, but can lack attack because of this. The LS50's can sound warm depending on positioning and if no bungs are used.

I've never found the SA1 to be warm, more neutral with a lean bass, and the SCM11 can come across as warm with 'the right material' due to its rolled off treble.

 

[alchemist 1]

Which of these give the warmer tonal presentation. ?

Define 'warmer'

Some will feel that warmer is just a nice full low end (more bass), others a fuller midrange. Others might feel that warmer means that the treble isn't too prominent which brings the bass and lower mid more to the fore, or even just a dull sounding speaker. Can a speaker sound warm and have a strong upper mid/lower HF presence?

I'd say it'd be between the DB1i, PM1, with the LS50 just a little behind. The PM1's have a strong bass despite their small driver, so will sound warm to some, while the DB1i has a warm midrange (to me), so despite its brighter treble it is an easy listen, but can lack attack because of this. The LS50's can sound warm depending on positioning and if no bungs are used.

I've never found the SA1 to be warm, more neutral with a lean bass, and the SCM11 can come across as warm with 'the right material' due to its rolled off treble.

Warmer, mmm...., weight...gravitas

Not sure of your inerpretation David ? '' warmer is just a nice full low end ''

Really !

 

[Frank Harvey]

I've personally never connected warmth with weight

I mean a warmer bass - more rounded - maybe a little less precise and controlled.

 

[emberins]

Sorry for reviving this thread and I do not mean to hijack it , but I was wondering if you think PMC DB1 could be driven by something as modest as Onkyo TX-8050?

Thanks very much in advance.

 

[davedotco]

Sorry for reviving this thread and I do not mean to hijack it , but I was wondering if you think PMC DB1 could be driven by something as modest as Onkyo TX-8050?

Thanks very much in advance.

Depends what you are actually asking....

Will a TX-8050/DB1 combination play reasonably loud without obvious distortion? Yes.

Will a TX-8050/DB1 combination come anywhere close to realising the potential of the speakers? Not even close.

Other views are available.

 

[knacker]

I have been using PMC DB1 for approx 6 years on my system and have just changed to a pair of Neat Iotas and for such a small speaker the sound is amazing

 

[emberins]

Thank you for your quick comment, davedotco. I have since got a pair of KEF R100, actually. And although I understand the onkyo might not be able to realise the full potential of the KEFs either I can say the combination seems to sound very nice together.

 

[mpapo]

Congrats, the Kef's are very nice speakers & from what I've heard the Onkyo is quite a capable amp so I'm not surprised with your impressions!

 

[davedotco]

Thank you for your quick comment, davedotco. I have since got a pair of KEF R100, actually. And although I understand the onkyo might not be able to realise the full potential of the KEFs either I can say the combination seems to sound very nice together.

I am not a big fan of the Kefs, but that is, for once, a personal opinion I am happy for others to dissagree with.

This should be a much better match so good to hear that it sounds good. I know that 'on paper' the PMCs are suposed to be reasonably sensitive and easy to drive but I have never really found that the case. In common with some other fine speakers I find their performance tends to mirror that of the amplifier, so the better the amplifier, the better they sound. I think this is a control issue primarily so I would not personally consider driving these speakers with a budget reciever.

Whilst I have not heard the exact combinations I feel this might be the issue with Knacker's system too. The iotas are a very well sorted speaker, designed to work within specific limits, and they do so remarkably well. The PMCs on the other hand, though capable of a better performance, need better amplification and system set up to realise their full potential

 

[emberins]

Ok, I guess I will only start considering replacing my KEFs when I upgrade to the likes of Peachtree Decco 65 (I like having DAC in the amp box to minimize clutter; hence, the budget Onkyo choice).